Guys, I wanted to ask because it takes a bit of work and I am already posting in the information on the UK forum. Would you guys like me to post a detailed account of an F1 clutch removal and replacement? I will cover the thrust bearing and F1 sensor magnet as well. I just don't want to do it if people are not interested. I know most take their cars in.
Detailed F1 clutch removal and replacement (4200)
Craig
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Were pullin for ya my brother
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It's the same gear box but I completely changed the hydraulic pack. I wanted to just swap the entire gear box but after receiving the one I purchased I found it was indeed an F1 box but was to a 2005 Quattroporte not to a Spyder or Coupe. They are identical and hard to recognize except for where the torque tube mounts to the front of the gear box. It has other mounting hardware as well but all that can be removed. The Quattroporte has a different torque tube mount flange and it has a smaller splined shaft. As I didn't want to split the new gear box and change the shaft I removed the hydraulic pack which is what I needed, my gear box was fine. I really didn't care because I made out like a bandit on price for the set up.
I honestly believe that the actuator I had was messed up, this was confirmed by the person I sent it to. Additionally, with what you saw with the Fly wheel, PP and clutch. I think it was a dual problem.
Long story short the gear box is the same, I lifted the entire hydraulic pack off and changed it without splitting the hydraulic system. So I have two actuators. One actuator is on the car, the other I sent out to a person I really trust to see if he could wave a magic wand and fix it. Additionally I have a New Quattroporte gear box that looks like it came off the factory floor I haven't decided what to do with. Coffee table maybe? It's not as attractive as the motor but I have it now. Here's some photos:
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(Old gear box and hydraulic pack minus the actuator/reservoir. I removed the actuator to send it out that's why it's missing in the photo.)
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(old hydraulic pack you can see that all the sensors and everything come right out as one unit)
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(Quattroporte Gear box with hydraulic pack)
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(old gear box after cleaning and replaced hydraulic pack)
I honestly believe that the actuator I had was messed up, this was confirmed by the person I sent it to. Additionally, with what you saw with the Fly wheel, PP and clutch. I think it was a dual problem.
Long story short the gear box is the same, I lifted the entire hydraulic pack off and changed it without splitting the hydraulic system. So I have two actuators. One actuator is on the car, the other I sent out to a person I really trust to see if he could wave a magic wand and fix it. Additionally I have a New Quattroporte gear box that looks like it came off the factory floor I haven't decided what to do with. Coffee table maybe? It's not as attractive as the motor but I have it now. Here's some photos:
(Old gear box and hydraulic pack minus the actuator/reservoir. I removed the actuator to send it out that's why it's missing in the photo.)
(old hydraulic pack you can see that all the sensors and everything come right out as one unit)
(Quattroporte Gear box with hydraulic pack)
(old gear box after cleaning and replaced hydraulic pack)
Great job Craig !
When I saw all the parts , the love and care you put into them , your understanding of it , I knew you could do it . Yet I kept my fingers crossed . Cant wait to see it running .
Also your color combinations are unique , I am sure our buddies at the forum would like to see some pictures.
When I saw all the parts , the love and care you put into them , your understanding of it , I knew you could do it . Yet I kept my fingers crossed . Cant wait to see it running .
Also your color combinations are unique , I am sure our buddies at the forum would like to see some pictures.
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Guys thanks so much for the encouragement! It's been an interesting journey. I have an appointment with Steve at the Aston Martin dealer next week. Ironically, he had been talking to me about another Mas. that had similar problems as mine that came in for service. You'll never guess the issue? Collapsed fingers on the PP! I laughed told him it looks like the issue came back around to that for one of the cars anyway!
@Nishan it was great spending time with you and your wife over dinner. I'm happy you enjoyed digging through all the components of the Maserati when I had them out. I sent you another PM because it seems like the message you sent me with your email address disappeared somewhere. I wanted to send you a copy of the technical service bulletin from Maserati I have about the squeal you have on take off. Normally I definitely would have voted for Pilot bearing or Throw-out bearing, but I think the Clutch Center shaft bearing might actually be your cause. Additionally let me know if you want a copy of the Service Manual for your car. I will link that as well in the Drop box link. Again it was nice sitting and having a drink with you. :thumbsup:
@Nishan it was great spending time with you and your wife over dinner. I'm happy you enjoyed digging through all the components of the Maserati when I had them out. I sent you another PM because it seems like the message you sent me with your email address disappeared somewhere. I wanted to send you a copy of the technical service bulletin from Maserati I have about the squeal you have on take off. Normally I definitely would have voted for Pilot bearing or Throw-out bearing, but I think the Clutch Center shaft bearing might actually be your cause. Additionally let me know if you want a copy of the Service Manual for your car. I will link that as well in the Drop box link. Again it was nice sitting and having a drink with you. :thumbsup:
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Slightly off topic as requested by Nishan
I just wanted to stick some photos in here in the Sun of the Spyder. I know it's slightly off topic and I don't want to take the thread in another direction but Nishan is a real Gentleman and thought I would add them here for a person I met and respect.
So here are the photos you guys probably already remember in the shade:
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In the above photos you really cannot distinguish that the car has three different colors of PPG paint on it. The door handles, window frame, mirrors and convertible top cover is actually PPG black with a pearl coat on it. The car itself is a different color of PPG paint with the same PPG pearl coat to make the colors look like they were purposefully painted that way. The rims are a PPG bright metallic silver, but I left the pearl coat off of them. Finally after much deliberation when it was done I decided to keep the front and rear GS bumpers(I realize the front valance is from a face lift, I bought it from Larry because the GS bumper with the vents on the valance was sold to someone else) painted with the lighter variant shade of paint they were colored due to the PPG store not correctly mixing the paint for me, it also has the same pearl on it. I had a younger guy I ride Sport bikes with ask me to keep the bumpers the lighter shade as it's the new fad, and high-lighted the fact the bumpers were added. The back up sensors in the rear of the car are the actual color the rest of the car. I still have on hand two pints pre-mixed of the body color of the car, and the PPG 2021 clear should I decide to color match the bumpers to it's correct variant shade. Anyway so as per your request Nishan,
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The photos below are the only ones I have to really look down on the car to see the variant shade of the color that give the bumper a different colored look in the sun. My wife below in the photo really loves the car. I would have used a different photo but, I don't have one where you can kind of see down on the car's bumper front in the sun. Those halos still glow with bright sun on them!
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Here's the car in Georgia when I drove it home from Florida, guess it wouldn't be complete without showing you a before photo of the car:
![Image]()
I just wanted to stick some photos in here in the Sun of the Spyder. I know it's slightly off topic and I don't want to take the thread in another direction but Nishan is a real Gentleman and thought I would add them here for a person I met and respect.
So here are the photos you guys probably already remember in the shade:
In the above photos you really cannot distinguish that the car has three different colors of PPG paint on it. The door handles, window frame, mirrors and convertible top cover is actually PPG black with a pearl coat on it. The car itself is a different color of PPG paint with the same PPG pearl coat to make the colors look like they were purposefully painted that way. The rims are a PPG bright metallic silver, but I left the pearl coat off of them. Finally after much deliberation when it was done I decided to keep the front and rear GS bumpers(I realize the front valance is from a face lift, I bought it from Larry because the GS bumper with the vents on the valance was sold to someone else) painted with the lighter variant shade of paint they were colored due to the PPG store not correctly mixing the paint for me, it also has the same pearl on it. I had a younger guy I ride Sport bikes with ask me to keep the bumpers the lighter shade as it's the new fad, and high-lighted the fact the bumpers were added. The back up sensors in the rear of the car are the actual color the rest of the car. I still have on hand two pints pre-mixed of the body color of the car, and the PPG 2021 clear should I decide to color match the bumpers to it's correct variant shade. Anyway so as per your request Nishan,
The photos below are the only ones I have to really look down on the car to see the variant shade of the color that give the bumper a different colored look in the sun. My wife below in the photo really loves the car. I would have used a different photo but, I don't have one where you can kind of see down on the car's bumper front in the sun. Those halos still glow with bright sun on them!
Here's the car in Georgia when I drove it home from Florida, guess it wouldn't be complete without showing you a before photo of the car:
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The car looks great craig,,,beautifull car
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Thanks again Craig for the valuable post! your post gave me courage to remove the system just to change the F1 sensor. But now I have a problem like Vincere....self learn fail and cc light came on. I had new pump recently and new clutch 13K miles ago. measure the clutch and it was 5.71mm. I'm baffled!
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What are the codes that came up when scanned? If your CC light is on there is definitely a sensor picking up something being off.
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Funny thing is there is no code! it would go to R then 1st and 2nd then quits with the gearbox light coming on! I just installed the F1 sensor I got from UK. My friend and I did it after reading your inspirational posts! Keep it coming.
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+1.....if the CC light is on, there must be an internally stored message about the system that set it off. Dave is correct, I didn't think about it. You are plugging the machine into SD3/Leonardo system to pull the code correct? It's not just an OBD 2 code scanner like for reading diagnostic codes from the car's ecu? This is specific for Maserati cars. Additionally did you bleed your hydraulic system out? You disconnected the hydraulic system to get to that F1 sensor it all has to be bled out. If not you will have air in the hydraulic lines past the quick disconnect.
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Do you have a service manual? There are actually two bleed valves for the hydraulic system pertaining to the clutch. Additionally air is bled from the actuator from the three bleed valve screws on the side of the Actuator closest to the gear box. If I understand correctly, you didn't break any of the hydraulic lines except at the quick disconnect, and when you took the bell housing off to replace the F1 sensor? What year is your car? Do you have to remove the thrust bearing in order to take your sensor out or can you access it without breaking any of those hydraulic lines? The early model cars like mine you had to disassemble it like I did in all the photos above. In the later cars they changed the design so you no longer had to.
Pertaining to the hydraulic lines going to the clutch, there is a bleed valve by the quick disconnect coupler, and again there is one that is mounted to the bell housing itself. They both look similar to bleed valves on the back of brake calipers only they are larger. They usually have a rubber grommet covering them to protect them from dirt. There cannot be any air in those lines or it will not engage the slave cylinder/thrust bearing assembly. It would be similar to air in brake lines where you push the brake pedal and it compresses the air in the brake line and your foot goes to the floor without engaging the calipers/drums. Same principal....
Additionally, there is a bleeding procedure in the Service Manual. It's done with a SD2/3, or Leo system so I'm not sure why someone told you that it self bleeds, that's incorrect. If that was correct they would not of added the bleed valves in the system. Again they are identical in operation as brake bleed valves. Basically what the SD2/3 or whatever interface they are using does is pulses the F1 pump to build the pressure (similar to pumping the brakes) once the pressure is built they slightly loosen the bleed valves to allow the air out. This is done until it bleeds straight hydraulic fluid and there is no longer air in the line.
I can tell you from experience that I have by accident left the quick disconnect coupler disconnected one time and no "CC" light was triggered and the Leo system didn't pick it up either. Of course there wasn't any clutch engagement and the car stayed in neutral. This being stated I re-read where you posted......
What prompted you to decide to change the F1 sensor? If there were no codes how did you come to the inclination your F1 sensor was faulty? Additionally, you must have a newer model car where you can access the sensor by not taking the thrust/slave cylinder out. If you can switch into R, 1st and 2nd that means you have pressure pushing that thrust bearing forward, which wouldn't be happening if you completely split the system apart to remove the sensor. So you must of only had to take it apart at the quick disconnect, and not in the bell housing to get to the F1 sensor.
So the car was originally doing this, R, 1st and 2nd, which prompted you to only change the F1 sensor? But now the car is still doing this? I'm a bit lost take me through how you diagnosed this problem as only being an F1 sensor problem, and not something else without having any diagnostic codes leading you this way.
Pertaining to the hydraulic lines going to the clutch, there is a bleed valve by the quick disconnect coupler, and again there is one that is mounted to the bell housing itself. They both look similar to bleed valves on the back of brake calipers only they are larger. They usually have a rubber grommet covering them to protect them from dirt. There cannot be any air in those lines or it will not engage the slave cylinder/thrust bearing assembly. It would be similar to air in brake lines where you push the brake pedal and it compresses the air in the brake line and your foot goes to the floor without engaging the calipers/drums. Same principal....
Additionally, there is a bleeding procedure in the Service Manual. It's done with a SD2/3, or Leo system so I'm not sure why someone told you that it self bleeds, that's incorrect. If that was correct they would not of added the bleed valves in the system. Again they are identical in operation as brake bleed valves. Basically what the SD2/3 or whatever interface they are using does is pulses the F1 pump to build the pressure (similar to pumping the brakes) once the pressure is built they slightly loosen the bleed valves to allow the air out. This is done until it bleeds straight hydraulic fluid and there is no longer air in the line.
I can tell you from experience that I have by accident left the quick disconnect coupler disconnected one time and no "CC" light was triggered and the Leo system didn't pick it up either. Of course there wasn't any clutch engagement and the car stayed in neutral. This being stated I re-read where you posted......
What prompted you to decide to change the F1 sensor? If there were no codes how did you come to the inclination your F1 sensor was faulty? Additionally, you must have a newer model car where you can access the sensor by not taking the thrust/slave cylinder out. If you can switch into R, 1st and 2nd that means you have pressure pushing that thrust bearing forward, which wouldn't be happening if you completely split the system apart to remove the sensor. So you must of only had to take it apart at the quick disconnect, and not in the bell housing to get to the F1 sensor.
So the car was originally doing this, R, 1st and 2nd, which prompted you to only change the F1 sensor? But now the car is still doing this? I'm a bit lost take me through how you diagnosed this problem as only being an F1 sensor problem, and not something else without having any diagnostic codes leading you this way.
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My car is a 2002 with 58K miles. the CC light kept coming on more often and the engine dying. I knew something was wrong. Took it to my friend that has a shop and has the Leonardo system. He could not pull up any fault or code. He said that the F1 sensor must be bad, so I ordered one. Previously it would give erroneous value that the clutch was 110%, so we suspected the sensor even before anything happened. One day at the stop light, the car would not go into forward or reverse, thats when I decided to change the F1 sensor. After the replacement, the Leonardo sometimes get signal values and sometimes nothing at all. When it does, we would put it in self learn and it would go to R then 1st, 2nd then quits with the CC light coming on repeatedly! Thats where I'm at...baffled. The Leonardo system can program to bleed the system, which is what I'm going to do next.
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Okay that makes sense definitely with those symptoms it would lead you that way. I know sometimes when the F1 sensor fails it won't leave a code behind but with a constant light I'm really surprised it's not coming back with anything, not to mention the values are intermittent. Additionally, what did the clutch and PP look like when you took the bell housing apart? I understand that you probably didn't take the clutch disc out but did you check to see if any of the PP fingers were slightly pushed in more than the others? The symptoms you have can also be indicative of this, at least the gear selection. Yes if you have an 02' then you must of had to take apart the hydraulic lines on the bell housing to remove the thrust bearing and get to the sensor. How you can get reverse, 1-2 is a mystery to me because effectively all of those lines now have air in them if you didn't bleed it out. It took me about 20 mins with a vacuum bleeder to remove the air just out of the bell housing alone, and honestly I'm not even sure I won't have to do it from the Leo system when I get it to the Aston Martin dealer on Friday. Up till this point everything I've read there isn't any other way to bleed the system. I attempted this because I want to see if a vacuum bleeder could successfully remove the air from the system like it will with brakes, that part was experimental. In your situation I would try bleeding it out with the Leo. and let us know what happens.
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I wish I had a manual. I only took the quick disconnect hose off and my buddy took the bell housing out and nothing else to remove the F1 sensor. We also have a spare sensor with longer wire from a quattroporte and try to replace the sensor and run the wire out of the bell housing just to see if the new sensor is bad, after we bleed the system. Is there a site in how to bleed the entire system?
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Im not sure if this helps u but I found this.
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Yes that's correct Larry. That's from the service manual. Hopefully you can see the photos. PM me your email address and I will send you a link to down-load the service manual for the Coupe and Spyder.
Stephen, I don't understand how he removed the F1 sensor without splitting the hydraulic lines to the thrust bearing if your have the same set up as I do. The newer cars have a star base sleeve behind the thrust bearing and you can get to the bolts of the sensor without complete disassembly. I guess that's neither here nor there now though. If what you are saying is true then the bleed problem is probably not what you are struggling with, and of course now it makes sense how you can get it into those other gears.
I can see the sensor being part of the diagnosis here but because the car will not give you any other information I'm concerned. If you are only reading signal some of the time, I wonder if this is also the reason you are not getting the information for why the CC light is constantly on? If the sensor was still at fault I don't believe it would allow you to switch back and forth between R, 1 and 2nd, but none of the other higher gears. It's very possible that you have more going on here than just that F1 sensor. Again did you check the fingers on the PP when you took it apart, I really wish we could see the clutch as well, 58K is that on the original clutch? That's kilometers correct not miles? So just slightly above 36,000 miles. When was the last time the clutch was changed? I'm going to tell you though it's very difficult to diagnose this on-line, if not impossible. I will help as much as I can.
Stephen, I don't understand how he removed the F1 sensor without splitting the hydraulic lines to the thrust bearing if your have the same set up as I do. The newer cars have a star base sleeve behind the thrust bearing and you can get to the bolts of the sensor without complete disassembly. I guess that's neither here nor there now though. If what you are saying is true then the bleed problem is probably not what you are struggling with, and of course now it makes sense how you can get it into those other gears.
I can see the sensor being part of the diagnosis here but because the car will not give you any other information I'm concerned. If you are only reading signal some of the time, I wonder if this is also the reason you are not getting the information for why the CC light is constantly on? If the sensor was still at fault I don't believe it would allow you to switch back and forth between R, 1 and 2nd, but none of the other higher gears. It's very possible that you have more going on here than just that F1 sensor. Again did you check the fingers on the PP when you took it apart, I really wish we could see the clutch as well, 58K is that on the original clutch? That's kilometers correct not miles? So just slightly above 36,000 miles. When was the last time the clutch was changed? I'm going to tell you though it's very difficult to diagnose this on-line, if not impossible. I will help as much as I can.
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I did not check the fingers of the PP. History of clutch.....12K dealer replaced with new clutch on warranty......Around 41K miles Eddie Rodriguez replaced clutch, not because it was absolutely needed, but it was dying and I didn't want to get stuck. No sensor or anything else was replaced......58K miles clutch won't go to 1st or R. we had it on the self bleed, with pulses going thru the quick connect line, before but didn't know to open the bleeder by bell housing, we will try that next. We replaced the sensor but not the magnet so we didn't dismantle the hydraulic line to the thrust bearing.
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