Guys, I wanted to ask because it takes a bit of work and I am already posting in the information on the UK forum. Would you guys like me to post a detailed account of an F1 clutch removal and replacement? I will cover the thrust bearing and F1 sensor magnet as well. I just don't want to do it if people are not interested. I know most take their cars in.
Detailed F1 clutch removal and replacement (4200)
Craig
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okay this all makes sense. I've heard of Eddie before seems to be quite good at being an Independent for these cars. Have you done anything with the Actuator or any of the hydraulics? This sounds like a shift problem in the actuator to me then, not the clutch. See if you can remove the Actuator and put it in self learn off the car. See if the actuator is actually moving through all the motions. You will be able to look right at the shift mechanism and see where it's failing. There will be no pressure on the actuator mechanism and it should move quite easily if it doesn't you know where your issue is.
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Eddie was highly revered here by many enthusiasts.He has, unfortunately, passed away.
http://www.maseratilife.com/forums/drivers-lounge/24498-eddie-rodriguez.html
http://www.maseratilife.com/forums/drivers-lounge/24498-eddie-rodriguez.html
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Thank you so much guys......my car is an hour away from me at my friends shop and I've not been able to work on it till next week. I will post more details. Is it true that someone told me u could use regular automatic trans fluid for the F1 system?
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It probably is true that someone told you that. :deal: I wouldn't do it though.
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Sorry, I hadn't heard he passed away, I did hear he was quite good with these cars. I guess it's great his reputation still precedes him. Maybe one day a reputation like this would follow me as well whether cars or otherwise.
Pentosin 11S is what you're looking for. As Dave suggested I would stay away from the AT. When in doubt don't gamble with something this important. Ironically I walked into an Advanced Auto Parts store two days ago picking up a high strength Moog u-joint I was replacing. There on the shelf sat the Pentosin 11S. I've only seen it in a Napa one other time where I bought it. It's possible an auto parts store close to you carries it, as they are becoming increasingly aware of Eurospec products like this, including oils. If you cannot find it close by I jump on Amazon, and use Prime to get it there in two days.
Slight update for me as well, I have the girl loaded up on the car hauler for tomorrow's appointment at the Aston Martin dealer. I finally get to see if any of what I have done worked. Best case scenario is I take it off this car hauler and drive her home tomorrow. Worse case.....well we know what the worst case is so.......The other part of this I'm pretty thankful for is I could disassemble it pretty quickly now.
Pentosin 11S is what you're looking for. As Dave suggested I would stay away from the AT. When in doubt don't gamble with something this important. Ironically I walked into an Advanced Auto Parts store two days ago picking up a high strength Moog u-joint I was replacing. There on the shelf sat the Pentosin 11S. I've only seen it in a Napa one other time where I bought it. It's possible an auto parts store close to you carries it, as they are becoming increasingly aware of Eurospec products like this, including oils. If you cannot find it close by I jump on Amazon, and use Prime to get it there in two days.
Slight update for me as well, I have the girl loaded up on the car hauler for tomorrow's appointment at the Aston Martin dealer. I finally get to see if any of what I have done worked. Best case scenario is I take it off this car hauler and drive her home tomorrow. Worse case.....well we know what the worst case is so.......The other part of this I'm pretty thankful for is I could disassemble it pretty quickly now.
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Finished!!!! Ha!
Okay guys just brought the truck and car hauler back home from the Aston Martin dealer. Set the PIS, and put it in self learn. The car engages better than it ever did since I've owned it. So I guess we will finish this thread off, at least for me, on a good note! It's Friday and the car runs perfect. Cost $135.00 for the PIS set and self learn. The Ferrari tech Dave gave it the clean bill of health, we test drove it together. I'm all set thanks guys for following the thread and encouraging me. :thumbsup: Now I'm taking a Taxi over to drive it back home, I refused to put it back on the car hauler.
All done at the shop:
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Okay guys just brought the truck and car hauler back home from the Aston Martin dealer. Set the PIS, and put it in self learn. The car engages better than it ever did since I've owned it. So I guess we will finish this thread off, at least for me, on a good note! It's Friday and the car runs perfect. Cost $135.00 for the PIS set and self learn. The Ferrari tech Dave gave it the clean bill of health, we test drove it together. I'm all set thanks guys for following the thread and encouraging me. :thumbsup: Now I'm taking a Taxi over to drive it back home, I refused to put it back on the car hauler.
All done at the shop:
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That's great news Craig,,,,,,Happy Friday to ya
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After driving it for about an hour I can positively say that it runs better now as far as gear selection and clutch engagement than it ever did owning it. Actually, I thought these cars' clutches always slipped a bunch off the line before finally engaging. I never had any issue going from one gear to the next it just seemed before that the car allowed it to slip off the line more than I had liked. But now I'm realizing with a new clutch and a great PIS set up this thing doesn't slip at all like it used to. It's about the same as I would do with a foot operated clutch, and it gets right into gear. Either way guys I've enjoyed myself today and I'm taking my wife out to eat tonight in the Mas. I'm pretty happy. By the way for future reference because I've read a few threads stating you cannot bleed the hydraulic system yourself. That's not correct. You can use a brake vacuum bleeder to bleed the bell housing out and by the quick disconnect. I'm not talking about the three screws on the back of the actuator that's different.
Long story short, you can replace your own clutch. You only need the Leo system to reset that the car has a brand new clutch, and you need it for the self learn when your done. I don't know where my final tally is for the clutch replacement costs but Steve and Dave over at Aston Martin of New England are two really great guys. If I didn't know how to work on cars that's where I would take my baby.
Long story short, you can replace your own clutch. You only need the Leo system to reset that the car has a brand new clutch, and you need it for the self learn when your done. I don't know where my final tally is for the clutch replacement costs but Steve and Dave over at Aston Martin of New England are two really great guys. If I didn't know how to work on cars that's where I would take my baby.
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Boy.....I love to hear good endings like this!!! Always gratifying when all the work you put in pays off! I'm hoping I can drive my baby home too.
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IIRC you don't have the DBWEM. You just had everything done with the flash, right?
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Vincere, I can tell you not only by climbing up through the rpms into the shifts but at good highway speed there are no vibrations in that drive line. To me it would be noticeable but I'm not sure it would be to someone else who didn't know what it would feel like. It was worth it to me to begin with because it was peace of mind knowing it was done properly, and done right. It shouldn't have cost $300, it really should have only been about $100-150 to balance it. I knew it when I paid it though. But after all the other work I had done I was prepared to do what was necessary. But that being stated here's what it took to replace the clutch laying the sweat equity to the side:
Hill Engineering thrust bearing....$564.19
Flywheel resurface...................... $ 50.00
Clutch Pack................................$1110.00
Pilot Bearing..................................$ 30.00
F1 sensor......................................$230.00
balancing.......................................$300.00
Self learn/PIS set up......................$135.00
Total...............................................$2419.19
I realize I am leaving out the other parts I paid, ie. the first pots, and the other gear box, mainly because that was a separate issue. Had I only needed to change the clutch that total above is accurate, and that's using the upgraded thrust bearing from Hill. Considering that you are going to pay $5000-6000 to get it done in a shop I wasn't really worried about the $300.
Here is a price quote for just parts I was quoted when this initially began for the local place to do it:
191998 clutch kit $1586.00 retail… your price $1350.00
179658 sensor kit $529.77 retail… your price $475.00
234953 thrust bearing assy $1087.00 retail… your price $915.00
Total: $2740.00
(You will notice the price difference immediately and the fact there are things missing between the two lists.)
Either way to make a long story short, I'm sure there are still shops who are throwing the clutch right on the cars with the points 180 degrees from each other without further balancing. I know the car will run that way even if only slightly out of balance. You could probably get away with thousands of miles depending on how out of balance stacking those tolerances would be. I think I said to begin with that the balance shop told me that though 180 degrees was how he started when he began to balance it he didn't use the recommendation because that wasn't the best way for what I brought him to be balanced. He continued to clock the configuration until he found the best place it was the best in balance as a unit before he finished it off. That was not 180 degrees from each other, and if I had followed that recommendation it would have actually been worse out of balance as a unit. You balance clutches on any high performance machine not just a Mas. or F car. Which is why I did it. I would suggest if you chose to do this operation on your own please pay the money and get the PP and Fly wheel balanced together.
Hill Engineering thrust bearing....$564.19
Flywheel resurface...................... $ 50.00
Clutch Pack................................$1110.00
Pilot Bearing..................................$ 30.00
F1 sensor......................................$230.00
balancing.......................................$300.00
Self learn/PIS set up......................$135.00
Total...............................................$2419.19
I realize I am leaving out the other parts I paid, ie. the first pots, and the other gear box, mainly because that was a separate issue. Had I only needed to change the clutch that total above is accurate, and that's using the upgraded thrust bearing from Hill. Considering that you are going to pay $5000-6000 to get it done in a shop I wasn't really worried about the $300.
Here is a price quote for just parts I was quoted when this initially began for the local place to do it:
191998 clutch kit $1586.00 retail… your price $1350.00
179658 sensor kit $529.77 retail… your price $475.00
234953 thrust bearing assy $1087.00 retail… your price $915.00
Total: $2740.00
(You will notice the price difference immediately and the fact there are things missing between the two lists.)
Either way to make a long story short, I'm sure there are still shops who are throwing the clutch right on the cars with the points 180 degrees from each other without further balancing. I know the car will run that way even if only slightly out of balance. You could probably get away with thousands of miles depending on how out of balance stacking those tolerances would be. I think I said to begin with that the balance shop told me that though 180 degrees was how he started when he began to balance it he didn't use the recommendation because that wasn't the best way for what I brought him to be balanced. He continued to clock the configuration until he found the best place it was the best in balance as a unit before he finished it off. That was not 180 degrees from each other, and if I had followed that recommendation it would have actually been worse out of balance as a unit. You balance clutches on any high performance machine not just a Mas. or F car. Which is why I did it. I would suggest if you chose to do this operation on your own please pay the money and get the PP and Fly wheel balanced together.
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Dave, here's an excellent post by Centerforce about clutch seating. I'm also posting this because it's good for the forum. Here's what the service manual states about clutch seating and I think Centerforce gives a more indepth look of what that means and shows it with clutch discs:
• In order to allow minimal bedding-in of the clutch when driving the first kilometres, follow the instructions below:
- avoid Sport drive
- gear shifts at max 4000 rpm and max 50% accelerator pedal
- avoid violent pick-ups
- avoid prolonged pickups as far as possible (traffic jams, manoeuvres)
- change gears several times while moving
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMMhDMwtQd8
• In order to allow minimal bedding-in of the clutch when driving the first kilometres, follow the instructions below:
- avoid Sport drive
- gear shifts at max 4000 rpm and max 50% accelerator pedal
- avoid violent pick-ups
- avoid prolonged pickups as far as possible (traffic jams, manoeuvres)
- change gears several times while moving
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMMhDMwtQd8
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