[Craig]

Okay will do...She's running great right now Dave, I'm pretty happy buddy. Had her out most of the latter part of the day.

 

[Edward]

Awesome news Craig!
I am glad everything worked out and of course thanks for sharing your adventure with us.

 

[drstephensugiono]

Yes, four codes were showing: P0806 clutch position sensor which was stored on the ECU, P1710 clutch position sensor, P1770 engagement with wrong selection and P1772 opposite gear engagement, the last three were stored on the TCU with last code being permanent error

The codes were cleared and haven't come back, a self learn was performed but kept failing about half way through causing the CC light to come on, the gear selections values that came back were no where near the min and max. The F1 pump has been replaced before and the circuit pressure was showing 45.80 bar, I suspect the actuator needs to be bleed and re-centered, or possibly replaced.

Vincere and Craig.....Help..I finally bled the system and it still give the symptoms that Vincere had with P1770, engagement with wrong selection. What ever happenned with Vincere's car. Did he need a new actuator?

 

[vincere]

Vincere and Craig.....Help..I finally bled the system and it still give the symptoms that Vincere had with P1770, engagement with wrong selection. What ever happenned with Vincere's car. Did he need a new actuator?

Hi

The problem with my car turned out to be the actuator, the robotic arm was stuck in the upright position, I bought another actuator but I haven't fitted it yet

Your actuator might need to be re aligned according to the error, or it could also mean its faulty

With my car this is what I initially thought was the problem, the DTCs and sd2 actuator alignment value of 223 pointed to a re alignment, however, after we removed the actuator from the gearbox and ran a self calibration we could see that the arm would not move up or down, only side to side

Its also important to check the valve body and solenoids are working correctly as they control the how the actuator works

 

[drstephensugiono]

Thanks Vincere....does the trans need to come down again to remove and check the actuator. Did you get a new actuator?

 

[lcdave]

Vincere you have PM

 

[Craig]

Dave did you answer Stephen's question by PM about whether the gear box had to be dropped to checked the Actuator or not? Just wanted to be sure before I add to this.

 

[lcdave]

No. Here's the link to Craig's clutch troubleshooting thread that has pictures and, IIRC, instructions. Look around page 12 post 173

http://www.maseratilife.com/forums/coupe-spyder-gs/39002-pressure-plate-collapse-something.html

 

[drstephensugiono]

Thanks Dave...

 

[lcdave]

Thanks Dave...

:cheers: Good luck. Please let us know what you find.

 

[drstephensugiono]

Thanks Dave......right now my car is at my friend's shop. one mechanic says could be the actuator, another said that it's programming. He has the Leonardo and he thinks I need to use the SD2/SD3 system, so he might have it towed to the dealer. I told him to burn the car! LOL....I read the whole nefarious clutch thread...it's what I'm going thru.....hell. lol

 

[Craig]

Stephen, why does your friend think it needs to be on the SD2/3 and not the Leo. system? I mean if I remember correctly the Leo system has problems getting into the Capote settings and the ABS or Air bag settings but it should read everything else. You're having issues with the Gear box it should read that fine.

What happens when you put it on self learn? What are the parameters for each gear as it reads them?

 

[lcdave]

Stephen, why does your friend think it needs to be on the SD2/3 and not the Leo. system? I mean if I remember correctly the Leo system has problems getting into the Capote settings and the ABS or Air bag settings but it should read everything else. You're having issues with the Gear box it should read that fine.

What happens when you put it on self learn? What are the parameters for each gear as it reads them?

If it's a software issue, it may need to be reloaded. I didn't think you could do that without the SD2/3? Having said that, mechanical failures and control problems are pretty different.

 

[drstephensugiono]

Dave said it. The SD2/SD3 can reload software and the Leo couldn't. He had another Maserati w similar issue and that solved the problem. I couldn't be that lucky! He said the fact that it went to 1st& 2nd he didn't think it was an actuator issue. I'm lost at this point and not that experienced at this.

 

[Craig]

Okay that's where my confusion is. I understand about the SD being able to re-load software. What I don't understand is, and maybe he's already done this, is check the actuator before he has it towed down the street or alternatively, what happened to the P1770 code?

I guess it's worked for him before so he feels he wants to immediately go back to it again but he's not correct on the actuator issue. The actuator could still be messed up and toggle 1st and 2nd. They are both on the same shift fork. The actuator could still move left and right but not be able to move up and down. In the end I think that was actually my issue combined with the clutch issue.

Additionally, the book lists about 11 things that will toggle limp home mode (engagement of 1st and 2nd only, with no ability to self learn). The Alfa Romero guys had one of the same issues with the limp home mode dealing with the 1770 code, it turned out to be an issue with the accelerator pedal signal P1770 (the book also list this as a limp home mode issue).

Again my confusion maybe, but if it's giving you specific DTCs how is it a software issue? I guess I just wouldn't want to see more money going into towing it down the street only to get the same readings after re-loading software.

Here's the list that can enable limp home mode (recovery mode)
1. Engagement potentiometer
2. Selection potentiometer
3. Engine RPM
4. Clutch RPM
5. Vehicle speed
6. Relay Cranking
7. Brake Pedal
8. Can Message Transmission
9. Can Message Reception
10. Engagement and Selection Potentiometer switch
11. Sensor Common Ground Detachment

Some of these will not be applicable for your year of car depending on what year it is. I would follow closely to what your car is already bringing up codes for. There is two other things but I'm sure he checked them already so I'm not going to type them in.

Either way, maybe it's best to keep my opinion to myself in some of these circumstances and let the mechanic who's working on it handle it. It would probably frustrate me as well if I had a customer running to the web to check out whether what I'm doing is okay or not. My thought is even if he re-loads the software (whether I agree or not) he's bound to come right around to whatever the issue is if he's determined to fix it. Additionally software re-load is definitely cheaper than an actuator if it is an actuator issue. :cheers:

 

[lcdave]

If the TCU is in limp mode, it should say so on the Leo. If the actuator physically won't select but will engage, that should be evident as well. I think that is what is confounding all of us. I suppose if the system thinks all is well but will still only engage 1st and 2nd, maybe it really is just a software problem. Either way, it's hard to troubleshoot over the internet and doubly so when the the person discussing it isn't the person working it. No offense to any owner, it would be the same if my car were being worked somewhere else. Some things are always lost in translation.

 

[drstephensugiono]

Craig and Dave......please keep the thoughts coming. I'm driving and can't write much now, will later. P1770 is intermittent, seems to me the actuator is not going where it should, either a bad actuator or a bad software.im w u guys in your thoughts. Lol, or he wants me out of his shop

 

[Craig]

Dave, I totally agree with you on the Internet. I wonder if at times we might contribute to some mechanics frustration, which obviously isn't our intention at all.

The Leonardo system didn't pick up any of that in my car when we had it on the scanner though. It picked up the Pots but after replacing them it still wouldn't shift and the Leo system drew a blank. I guess you know it was toast.

I am actually going to hang out with Steve at Aston Martin of New England the 1st or 2nd week at the beginning of the year to compare Auto Enginuity's scanner with the Leo. He's interested because it might be a better system for the shop. As well I told him about the overlay graphing ability which he was interested in. I will try to see what other information the Leo system misses, especially if it's the older 201 NCR. The Leo system was reverse engineered from the SD2/3 system but there are things for whatever reason it still cannot pick up...ie. the Capote modules. Another quirk is it has difficulty pulling gear box issues (for the 201). Which very well might be why he would like to get it on the SD2/3 as well. Maybe he wants to double check that.

In either case, again second guessing him on-line probably isn't the best thing to help Stephen out. He's got the car, and he seems competent. I don't plan to fly out to where Stephen is to run diagnostics on his car so I might well keep my opinions in check unless they are helpful.:running:

 

[lcdave]

Right, that was sort of my point; you actuator was physically broken and wouldn't select different forks. The car wasn't in limp mode. I would think the Leo would recognize the limp mode condition. It still doesn't help though, because the question of why the actuator isn't working could still be failed hardware or bad software.

My thinking is that I would check to see if it is trying to select and engage gear. If it's trying and not accomplishing the task, it seems more likely to be a failed actuator. If it doesn't actuate the hydraulic solenoids, it would indicate a command problem.

 

[Craig]

Okay....same page, got ya. He should be able to go into the Leo and select each gear individually, at least you can on A/E. If he can do that, correct it wouldn't be the actuator. If he cannot I agree it would be. I would again then suggest (if he cannot) removing the actuator from the car and watching it attempt to toggle the gears as it's selecting to see if it's hung up.