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Interesting thoughts suggesting open circuit by means of a switch to system +30 fuel pumps' supply at F63 (20A Yellow) inside luggage compartment fuse box.
I don't know what error would be generated and stored in the ECU needing a compatible OBDII diagnostic to clear. But suspect there would be one similar to if there was a fault with one or other of the fuel pumps. (?)

Assuming fuel pumps are at the rear then you'd have the petrol in the fuel line feeds causing a startup before line runs dry? And would have to be re-primed again plus risks of air blocks afterward

Seems that for me, the only proper fix is the proper fix. Although an accumulator might pe-lube variators from it's $350 kit (+s&h & duty to UK)
Pre-Lube

But shurely, the fault is not with the oil feed getting to the Variators, but what happens to it once inside their mechanism? Or have I got this wrong?
 
Still erring on the "only proper fix, is a proper fix" side of above. However, if either of the above two kludges do work and do provide protection to the variatiors then given I only have occasional morning startup clatter then compared to shelling out some $3,500 they're options worth considering?

I'm not a mechanic so is there anything obviously technically wrong with either?

The MTB-200917G refers to MTB-200908 for a "how-to". I've had a search on the interweb but nothing comes up. Anyone have or know of a source? Ta!
 
Instead of killing the fuel pumps from the fuse/relay, do these cars have clear flood mode?

A lot of throttle by wire cars have a mode where if you depress the gas pedal all the way then crank to start, the ECM leaves the injectors off.

If maseratis have this feature this seems like a much easier way to pressurize the oil system before actually starting.


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clear flood mode?
Didn't even know there was such a thing! Referring to owners' handbook p140 Starting the Engine says "3) Do not press the accelerator pedal" then "5) Turn the ignition key to the AVV position..." Whether that indicates that there is a clear flood mode and hinting not to use gas pedal during start up because of it I dunno. Will find out later
 
Didn't even know there was such a thing! Referring to owners' handbook p140 Starting the Engine says "3) Do not press the accelerator pedal" then "5) Turn the ignition key to the AVV position..." Whether that indicates that there is a clear flood mode and hinting not to use gas pedal during start up because of it I dunno. Will find out later
Nah, no difference except loadsa revs when it fires. Still a rattle on startup for ½ sec. Took it up town this afternoon. Still a rattle on startup this time after being parked up for only two hours
 
The best way to fix one of these things is install the updated parts IMO....Once you do, then the original problem is solved... All the little tricks with the fuel pump, pre-luber, rabbits foot, horse shoe, Holy water etc.... are just a band aid for the original issue.. Jason
 
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Band Aid, Holy Water, rabbit's foot, etc don't cost $3,500-odd bucks :oops:

BTW, here's a handy cut out 'n keep .pdf file of the fuses section of the Owners' Handbook that was in my '08MY QP M5 (UK) Just a bit more convenient than having to ferret thru the whole book if fuse blows. (mine go usually in the darkness of a country lane)
 

Attachments

And here's a handy cut out 'n keep chart of your service dates, mileage/kms due, with times. Taken from my QP5 '08MY owner's handbook it makes sense of the charts in there (apart from the entry for Lamda Sensors & Carbon filter that says every five years but with a sub-script that says every four ;¬)

With each there's a chart of what a main dealer service agent does (should've done) at each service. Space for you to add your own miles or kms and date done.

Available in either .xls (Excel 97-2000) or .wks (Works SS 4/2000) format, neither will attach here so send me a PM with your email address and I can atttach by return
 
Dave:

Yes, I think everyone on this forum has probably contributed to this topic to some degree at one point or another. What KTBD said is correct, however you need to understand the following as well:

You have a dry sump motor that uses a very reliable high-pressure variator and VVT system used in the Ferrari F430 and Maserati Camboicorsa/Grand Sports. It is of the helical spline design that rotates forward with pressure, similar to the Alfa Romeos, which ironically suffer from a similar problem. The dry sump engines do not need re-machining as the check valves and caps are already equipped and are proven to work as is in every application other than the QP. The wet sump units are completely different in design and require the update.

It is very interesting that you mention the accumulator.

What intrigued me about this whole issue is that the wet sump units typically fail one side at a time, at least the one's I have witnessed. I sure there are exceptions. However the dry sump units typically fail bilaterally - in other words, both banks fail at the same time - otherwise they never, ever fail. Odd. Additionally, I know of well-serviced, low mileage, spotless cars with serious variator failure and other neglected, filthy cars that are silent on startup for life. It is not dependent upon oil changes, etc. Living in South Florida, where QPs grow on trees, you see a very large cross-section of examples that allow people like me to make such statements.

Anyway, back to the accumulator. The fact that the dry sump units fail bi-laterally or not at all leads me to believe there is something behind their operation causing this. Could it be the driver? Searching for common denominators of failed cars vs. those equipped with the same setup (like a QP vs a F430 or CC), the QP is the only car that defaults to Auto when started. So, I began to think that maybe it is a result of a very heavy car spending most of its useful life in the low RPM range, lugging itself and starving the VVT system of oil, thus accelerating its wear. Could be. Then, I thought "why would both sides fail?" Is there something in the mechanical process that could cause or influence failure of both sides simultaneously? That's when I looked at the accumulator.

A good friend of mine just completed the Maserati academy and is employed at a Ferrari/Maserati dealership. He shared with me all his training collateral, photos, etc. on variator service. HERE'S WHAT SHOCKED ME. They no longer train on dry sump engines, although the training manual reads "parts between the dry and wet sump motors are different by 80%." They simply state that the replacement process is the same. There is no training on the function of the accumulators. Those who were willing to share what they know, all described the part performing different functions and even the legacy techs said to me "the only thing we've ever done was replaced them when they leaked externally, which is rare." I asked what it does and my response was "we don't know, really." Some say it supplies oil pressure on startup; others say it is only during the advance/retard at 3000 rpm.

The moral to the story is this - I am replacing mine to be safe, just prior to replacing my variators. I am not replacing the variators myself, but I have replaced my variator solenoids (very easy job), and will be replacing my accumulator and pump just to be safe. Then my variators will be replaced. If you search my previous posts, my car has had a viscious rattle almost since the car had very LOW mileage - it is not at 102K.

Anyway, whatever you can find out would be appreciated. It would be interesting to see if changing out other less expensive parts early in the game changes anything. Like if your accumulator was changed out - would that solve anything? It's only a couple hundred dollars. Maybe worth a try.

As far as your specific questions about what actually fails, maybe Jason can chime in. He does these repairs like clockwork and could probably give the most trustworthy answers.
Hi my 4200 02 Spyder dry sump has developed a serious variator rattle on both banks within 20 mins of each other only 29000 mls on clock where can i get seals and bushings from to repair the Variators the engine ticks over and revs freely but it sound like a tin of spanners ps i replaced the inboard engine oil cooler and radiator 500 mls before as the water system was oiled up everything went well now this any answers
 
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