[lambertius]

You make a good point, and you're correct. Doing that test will tell you if the actuator itself is failing to select that gear. Its probably the actuator itself, but it could be one of the solenoids. I've got a table somewhere that explains which solenoid is used for selecting which gears, so you could possibly swap the solenoids around and see if the issue moves to another gear. If it stays on the same gear then its the actuator, if it moves when you swap the solenoids then it is the solenoid.

 

[exporschdrivr]

The treshold values are in between a range. Sometimes around for example 550 and everything works fine. Then the failure occurs and I do a self learn. After it its around 450 and the shifting is fine again. Until some driving later I have do a self learn again, becuase of the shifting problems. So this self learning moves the treshold values from 450 to 550 where it was before.

So Iöm actually not thinking the actuator itself wears out, because it can reach still the same values.

But to crosscheck the solenoids is a very good idea I wasn‘t thinking of😅 I will do that, when I will bleed the system once again.

Because I found a information of a specialist who is working on this kind of gearboxes and he is mentioning that the hollow screws on the solenoids for higher gears have only one hole and it‘s hard to bleed the system without pressure. He recommends to change this screws out with examples with at mininum two holes in it. It would prevent to have trapped air in the system.

 

[milanojess]

Not particular to gear sensors but for pots in general, they don't necessary have even wear, ie part of movement range may be worse than the rest, and when they do the resistance can be rather sporadic. Also the gear sensor tend to fail sometime after a leaky throwout bearing ( so my mechanic told me )

 

[RPM Services]

Ok, I set the PIS value to 4.8, the X431 is showing PIS value of 4.79. I dont see anywhere initialing on how to write the new self-learned position to the TCU. car is still not moving foward or reverse.
Here's the wear readings, not sure if this is supposed to change after putting new PIS value:

View attachment 133687

Normal new clutch position should be between 19-20mm and this needs to be programmed in when the clutch is replaced. From that point the self calibrated position compared to new clutch position will get your cutch wear number. if you get above 4mm from new you will start to get malfunctions, roughly 80% wear. above 5mm you will get slipping and missed shifts with clutch beyond PIS errors. it will read 100% wear or more.

 

[exporschdrivr]

I found an information that the hollow screw used are not quite as good as they should.

Take a look here mangelhafte Hohlschrauben an diversen F1 Systemen ab Werk! | Unser Blog zu F1-Hydraulik.de

The second hollow screw has just one hole with 1mm diameter which should be not enough and air could be still be trapped after the bleeding procedure. It says there this hollow screws are used beginning of 2007 and the F430, but also for Maserati... since I have still problems with 5th gear and I would like to eliminate all possible causes I would like to know if somebody knows which kind of hollow screws are used in a 2005 Spyder?

 

[F458]

Hi, did you get to the bottom of this? Having very simular issue and running out of ideas…

kind regards, Ricky

 

[putrzop]

what is the old bread trick, I'm curious to know tech guides get-mobdrovip.com

 

[lambertius]

what is the old bread trick, I'm curious to know

You jam bread into the cavity behind the pilot bearing and use the pressure to push out the bearing.

 

[Cdn17Sport6MT]

I've heard of that, @lambertius , and the notion of hydraulic'ing-out the spigot bearing is brilliant...

 

[exporschdrivr]

Hi, did you get to the bottom of this? Having very simular issue and running out of ideas…

kind regards, Ricky

You meant me? Sorry, I´m just occasionally here... usually when I have new problems ;(

Yes, finally I figured out it was a bad sensor on the actuator. That was also the reason why the threshold values jumped around and changed while driving. New sensor fixed it at all and it was a pleasure to drive again.

 

[themast]

I did a bit of driving and diagnosing my spyder.

Especially I recorded the thresholds and this is what I have:

Treshold for sure minimum shift to neutral	520​	510​	522​	522​	515​
Treshold for sure minimum shift to first	100​	100​	100​	100​	100​
Treshold for sure minimum shift to second	811​	814​	811​	811​	814​
Treshold for sure minimum shift to third	100​	100​	100​	100​	100​
Treshold for sure minimum shift to fourth	827​	830​	829​	829​	830​
Treshold for sure minimum shift to fifth	100​	100​	100​	100​	100​
Treshold for sure minimum shift to sixth	813​	814​	814​	814​	814​
Treshold for sure minimum shift to reverse	812​	819​	814​	814​	818​
Treshold for sure maximum shift to neutral	600​	590​	602​	602​	595​
Treshold for sure maximum shift to first	335​	335​	336​	336​	335​
Treshold for sure maximum shift to second	950​	950​	950​	950​	950​
Treshold for sure maximum shift to third	314​	313​	314​	314​	312​
Treshold for sure maxiumum shift to fourth	950​	950​	950​	950​	950​
Treshold for sure maximum shift to fifth	321​	318​	322​	322​	319​
Treshold for sure maximum shift to sixth	950​	950​	950​	950​	950​
Treshold for sure maximum shift to reverse	950​	950​	950​	950​	950​
treshold for minimum neutral selection	127​	124​	131​	131​	120​
treshold for minimum first speed selection	203​	198​	203​	203​	198​
treshold for minimum second speed selection	217​	213​	218​	218​	212​
treshold for minimum third speed selection	390​	379​	391​	391​	368​
treshold for minimum forth speed selection	385​	376​	387​	387​	364​
treshold for minimum fifth speed selection	564​	497​	579​	579​	475​
treshold for minimum sixth speed selection	558​	493​	572​	572​	471​
treshold for minimumreverse speed selection	100​	100​	100​	100​	100​
treshold for maximum neutral selection	635​	557​	672​	672​	536​
treshold for maximum first speed selection	388​	377​	389​	389​	366​
treshold for maximum second speed selection	383​	374​	385​	385​	362​
treshold for maximum third speed selection	562​	495​	578​	578​	473​
treshold for maximum fourth speed selection	556​	491​	570​	570​	469​
treshold for maximum fifth speed selection	950​	950​	950​	950​	950​
treshold for maximum sixth speed selection	950​	950​	950​	950​	950​
treshold for maximum reverse speed selection	215​	211​	216​	216​	210​

As I mentioned I have sometimes problems to shift into 5th gear.... sometimes also in 4th.

Every column is another read out. I tried to highline the lines with the biggest delta.

Can somebody help to interpret these values?

Edit: The actuator/gearbox centeric delta is -79, -98, -72,-98

And the clutch wear degree is about 64k. With A PIS of 4,8 I had 2400, now 64k. But no clutch slipping at all...

How is the clutch wear degree measured? Maybe this sensor is faulty?

I know you already figured it out, but since I was recently looking into this, and made a tool to visualize these data, I thought to share a graph of your data to help further our collective understanding of it.

This is the first column of your data. Which I understand it was taken after a self-learn and with the transmission seemingly working correctly.

This is the second column of data, after you experienced issues shifting into 5th gear.

This is 3rd and 4th column (they are the same). I think this is after another self learn, where it the thresholds were adjusted by the TCU to remove the overlap that appeared in the second column of data.

This is the fifth column of data, which I am not sure what exactly it corresponded to, I think it is after another self learn. 4th, 5th, and 6th moved again to try to avoid gaps and overlaps in the actuator limit of motion.

As you discovered, I think it was chasing its tail trying to re-adjust all the time because it was getting a corrupted signal.

 

[theflash32]

I know you already figured it out, but since I was recently looking into this, and made a tool to visualize these data, I thought to share a graph of your data to help further our collective understanding of it.

This is the first column of your data. Which I understand it was taken after a self-learn and with the transmission seemingly working correctly.
View attachment 147231

This is the second column of data, after you experienced issues shifting into 5th gear.
View attachment 147232

This is 3rd and 4th column (they are the same). I think this is after another self learn, where it the thresholds were adjusted by the TCU to remove the overlap that appeared in the second column of data.

View attachment 147233

This is the fifth column of data, which I am not sure what exactly it corresponded to, I think it is after another self learn. 4th, 5th, and 6th moved again to try to avoid gaps and overlaps in the actuator limit of motion.
View attachment 147234

As you discovered, I think it was chasing its tail trying to re-adjust all the time because it was getting a corrupted signal.

Can you share the Xcel spreadsheet (if that what it is )


Thanks in advance

Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk

 

[themast]

Can you share the Xcel spreadsheet (if that what it is )


Thanks in advance

Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk

Here you go. Change the file extension back to .xlsx (it is not a PDF but I had to save it this way to upload)

 

[theflash32]

Here you go. Change the file extension back to .xlsx (it is not a PDF but I had to save it this way to upload)

Thank you!!

Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk

 

[theflash32]

Here you go. Change the file extension back to .xlsx (it is not a PDF but I had to save it this way to upload)

Thanks for the spreadsheet..i havent tried to add the actual shift positions to the grid

Using a diag tool you can plot the actual position of each gear after each selection .. two values per gear .. it has to fall in the grid you displayed on your spreadsheet (min and max)

I haven't had the time to figure how to do that ..not sure if that is something you can add quickly ..that would make it like the Ferrari tool in their site used by dealers

Maybe like a round red circle where the x y coordinates fall within the grid ..that would be an awesome debugging tool

Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk
View attachment 148129

 

[theflash32]

My attempt

 

[Cdn17Sport6MT]

Thanks for the spreadsheet..i havent tried to add the actual shift positions to the grid

Using a diag tool you can plot the actual position of each gear after each selection .. two values per gear .. it has to fall in the grid you displayed on your spreadsheet (min and max)

I haven't had the time to figure how to do that ..not sure if that is something you can add quickly ..that would make it like the Ferrari tool in their site used by dealers

Maybe like a round red circle where the x y coordinates fall within the grid ..that would be an awesome debugging tool

Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk
View attachment 148129

Speaking of the Ferrari tool (actually, likely a Graziano/Magneti-Marelli tool) - I've seen that used after an actuator is rebuilt. The tool is fit on the actuator flange (pilot-fit) and the actuator "dog" set screw is slackened and the dog is brought up against the tool, zero clearance, and then the set-screw (bolt) is retightened. I believe only one adjustment is available for the dog (in the "select" direction, not the "shift" direction). I could be wrong, here, no doubt.

Can someone advise: this tool/this physical fixture... can it be-/should it be- used to check- and compensate against actuator wear? I do know that a ReLearn is used to compensate for actuator (and transaxle?) wear... at interval. A ReLearn is of course much less work... but it must be done, letting it go at its own pace, and with a good condition fully-charged battery, with a Tender hooked-up.

 

[Jason@ Enzo`s Atlanta]

I would love to help, but have never had to do any of this...I would have to get the shop manual out for stuff like this...Jason

 

[theflash32]

Speaking of the Ferrari tool (actually, likely a Graziano/Magneti-Marelli tool) - I've seen that used after an actuator is rebuilt. The tool is fit on the actuator flange (pilot-fit) and the actuator "dog" set screw is slackened and the dog is brought up against the tool, zero clearance, and then the set-screw (bolt) is retightened. I believe only one adjustment is available for the dog (in the "select" direction, not the "shift" direction). I could be wrong, here, no doubt.

Can someone advise: this tool/this physical fixture... can it be-/should it be- used to check- and compensate against actuator wear? I do know that a ReLearn is used to compensate for actuator (and transaxle?) wear... at interval. A ReLearn is of course much less work... but it must be done, letting it go at its own pace, and with a good condition fully-charged battery, with a Tender hooked-up.

Look at the live data and look for actuator centering ..number

Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk

 

[Kleur71]

There's a bug in the launch software that causes these high wear index readings on the earlier(est) version of the TCU firmware. Run it through the F430 for the proper value.

Mine is 64334 at this moment so i thought maybe i needed glasses or drunk to much the other night, thanks for this