[trygve11]

There are so many factors at play that answering the question about "will all eventually go bad" is almost impossible. Issues at play include:

1. Oil used
2. Number of start-ups (vs long drives) since start up is the issue
3. How long the car sits between start-ups (the more time between, the more dry the varators become)
4. How quickly you begin to rev your motor after start-up
5. Climate/temps
6. Manufacturing variability
7. Luck.

It will be a "normal distribution" I'd say just like anything else with some ability for you to control your own particular probability of failure (but not much).

The solution is to do what I am about to do and proactively address the issue. Not sure if even this solution will ensure that no issue ever occurs but higher probability of no issue than doing nothing at all.

 

[JoshH]

Josh, in regards to Maserati engines, do you think some engines will never have its variators go bad or all of them will go bad eventually?

What do you think?

Thanks

I'm in agreement with Jason's post, It's far too difficult to give you an answer that has a leg to stand on.

I don't see the variator issue looming over the QP like the concern for clutch wear does.

 

[Naushad2982]

Amending my post above.

The variator and solenoid will be a new part, the cam bearing cap will be sent to MNA to be machined and sent back to be put back on the motor.

Usually it is a misfire code, then we have to check the electronic timing values to make sure they are within spec.

There is no clear indication as to why this occurs. I have seen cars come in that barely exhibit the "chatter" , and I have seen them where there is a clear audible misfire in conjunction with the chatter. I have also seen cars that the client states there is a chatter, but when it gets here.....nothing. We keep the car for a couple days to perform cold starts and have a video recorder on it every time we start it. It may be three or four days before we can get the car to do it.

If your car does this intermittently, I recommend recording your cold starts to catch it in the act. This will save a great deal of down time with your dealer.

Hi, can you give me the /contact details/address of the machine shop that will do this repair on the caps? I have a 4200 QP has faulty caps. the non return valve on the cap broke on the left side. will they replace the valve? Im all the way in Kenya so would appriciate the help.

 

[Meenrod]

Is there a way for the dealer to diagnose this issue without stripping the engine to pieces? At which point they should change the parts anyway I guess.

 

[Defender110]

I feel I am in line to get this done - twice in last 2 months I got the rattle for 1second or so on dry startup (after car had been sitting several days between use). Anyone have any idea how long you can drive like that before the symptoms become more serious? I assume I won't be using it much before I bring it in but was curious.

I am also curious what people have paid for this from their dealers as I would like to find some place to get this done. I've heard $4K-7K and I asked my dealer when I bought this in June what they would charge and it was around $6K. I'd like to go somewhere different and hopefully cheaper as I haven't trusted the advice I have received from my dealer so far. I am in NJ area. Close to the Morris Cty dealer but they don't have a service dept open yet (at least they aren't returning my calls).

AndrewT

 

[Meenrod]

I am 3 miles from Morris County Maserati and they definitely service Maserati's now. It is only the sales room that is under construction.

I am in the same boat as you, maybe I am paranoid but I'm sure I hear a rattle now and again. Thing is I don't know the difference between a normal rattle and a death rattle.

Maybe we can get a group discount if we go together? I'll call them now for a quote.

 

[Defender110]

PM sent....

 

[Atlantan]

Ot:

FYI, I am about to proactively have my cam caps machined by the machine shop in Napa Valley that machines and adds the oil check valves (TEM Performance).

My car has 20K miles and I want to be sure to NOT have the variator problem. So, I ordered a kit from Maserati (for about $140) that contains the check valves, the valve cover gaskets and plug seals, and will pull the valve covers, pull the two front (bridged) cam caps, sent it out for machining and install of the check valves ($300) and then reinstall.

Hope to never have this $5K to $7K problem then.

Hi Jason,

Was this completed on your QP as a proactive measure? Looking for information if this would prevent the variator issue. Last time I checked, a local dealer had quoted $2400 for this proactive measure.

I found contact info for TEM on their Facebook page, Rich(machinist) was very responsive and helpful over txt and phone. TEM new price is $400 to do the cam cap stuff.

Thanks

 

[scot]

There is no such thing as "proactive measure" with this, except for automaticas. You have an 07 based on your tag, so I am assuming you have the F1 transmission. With this being the case, you already have the check valves in your system which keeps the oil where it needs to be and is the modification referred to in many messages.

If you do have an automatica, that seems about right.

All of this info came from one of the members here who took it upon himself to do. He apart the engine bay to get to the caps only to find they were already done out of the factory. The wetsump engine brings pressure up to the top very quickly, so maserati didn't feel it was required.

If you want to know normal vs death, go start up a corvette, especially a z06. You will hear the valves tapping for a second as the oil pressure builds. The QP does the same, but it is muted due to the engine bay sound proofing, not to mention being more or less depending on how long the car sits and if the nose is pointed up/down or on a level parking space. If it continues more than that brief second or so, that's an issue. Or if you get misfires, that's potentially a problem.

Think of it this way, the pump is in the bottom of the engine area (OVERLY SIMPLIFIED). There is a tube which runs from the pump, up to the top of the engine and connects to the variatior caps as well as into the area where the valve tappets etc are. In the F1 cars there is a one way check valve which lets oil into the variator caps, but doesn't let it drain back out.

When you turn off the car the oil will remain in the engine due to the check valve. The oil in the tubes feeding the top will slowly drain due to gravity, as the pump will slowly lose its prime, and it will end up in the dry sump.

Next time you start the car, the pump will spin, pull oil from the dry sump and start pushing the oil back to the top of the engine. There IS oil up there, but it won't be pressurized until the newly pushed oil travels back through the tube and fills all of the nooks and crannies. During this time the valve tappets will not have the pressure behind them to do their jobs and you will hear tapping noise. When it builds, the tapping goes away. This is a VERY brief period of time, and the entire area has oil, so it isn't damaging, though it does clatter a bit.

 

[Atlantan]

Thanks Scot,

Mine is an automatica, so... would this proactive measure really prevent the variator issue or just prolong it?

If later, I would just save up for it, expecting it to happen at some point, say like clutch replacement on an F1.

I have thought about this, if I trade in the car/sell, the depreciation hit I will take plus the sales tax on another luxury/sport sedan would be over the cost of the complete cam variator fix, so I think I am hanging on to mine.

 

[scot]

A wet sump has a much shorter distance to travel from pump on up plus they can hold their prime. So, in theory, the oil pressure should come on near instantly.

Maserati has determined that, while the theory should be good, it may not be good enough and if the top of the engine has to come apart anyways, better to machine the caps and put in what is standard on the F1 models anyway.

 

[lcdave]

Does the automatica (wet sump) have the variator accumulator?

 

[42866]

i played golf yesterday with the former service manager of a very large ferrari maserati dealer. he has over 20 years with the cars. as to the variator: his comments were as follows he said that it can sound like a bunch of nuts and bolts in a dryer. all pre 09 10 will eventually need this repair. he called it a real blemish on the engine in an otherwise outstanding car. he stated when fixed it won't recur. reading around it seems that a lot guys hear this and sell the car immediately before the issue gets worse. his other notes were. sticky button issue is a pretty big and common problem. he charged 20 hours ($3K) plus parts that needed replacement. the stencils to repaint or redo the lettering were very hard and time consuming to work with. further on sticky button. he would have the tech get them all off at once and put them in a bath of some light solvent solution and the re-stencil them all. that ended up being the fastest way to deal with them. (i think he some wouldn't come off or wouldn't put in the solution). he often went to 30 hours on the worst ones but felt he couldn't charge that many hours. lots of little things that are expensive like door and window parts inside door that break. he felt every year they got better and had fixed the variator valve issue in 09 or 10. but should have fixed a long time before. he did berate me for not getting an 07 with the f1.even tho the clutch repair is costly he felt that it was the true maserati / ferrari and the way the engine should be connected to the wheels. interesting conversation.

 

[tk89]

Anyone gotten any support from MNA on an out-of-warranty car? We've got an '08 that went from a slight rattle to a full-blown issue with misfires in about a week. They obviously know it's an issue with the engine but I haven't gotten anywhere yet.

Anyone have a full copy of Tech Bulletin MTB-200917 that addresses it? I only have the first page.

I appreciate any advice on pursuing this.

 

[MASERATI nut]

Anyone gotten any support from MNA on an out-of-warranty car? We've got an '08 that went from a slight rattle to a full-blown issue with misfires in about a week. They obviously know it's an issue with the engine but I haven't gotten anywhere yet.

Anyone have a full copy of Tech Bulletin MTB-200917 that addresses it? I only have the first page.

I appreciate any advice on pursuing this.

I am on 2nd variator full replacement. First time it was under warranty and this time I have to pay. They do know it's an issue but not sure thet care at MNA. I contacted them to see if they could help defray cost and answer was no.

 

[MASERATI nut]

These cars have a slightly "rough" idle naturally. It's best to have someone that spends a lot of time with these cars give you an opinion. If the engine is really running rough, you will most likely have driveability issues and a CEL with faults of some sort.

Brian, without being rude...there is a lot you're not seeing with the parts diagram if you believe 16hrs is excessive and the engine doesn't need to be re-timed.

I will usually charge (EDIT: 20hrs for front cover reseal, about 30hrs for variators.) in anticipation of complications...like spending extra time fighting with the crank pulley. The dealers may be doing the job for 16hrs due to factory warranty pay restrictions.

The mechanical variator in the QP engine is different from that in the other 4.2L engines. It is however shared with the Ferrari engine...which has little to no trouble with failure. So figure that one out...

These engines are designed with a base mechanical camshaft timing, which is modified electronically as the RPM's increase to broaden the power band. It is imperative to set this base timing correctly.

The variator interfaces between the timing chain and camshaft. There is nearly no way to change the variator and not be concerned that the timing is affected.

Mine took 40 hours....

 

[tarasik11]

Hi!
Replacing variators on my 07 QP.
Which way do I unscrew phase variators?
Thanks

 

[ErikDiSomma]

In this thread, there were some obvious DIY attempts at this job. If any of you have done this, please post some details of the procedure as well as pics if possible. Knowing what I know as fact about this issue, I already see some inaccuracies with regard to some posts relating to variator issues.

Also, keep in mind that even some FM dealers are not even qualified to dispense advise about this repair. ONLY if they do this often do they have the knowledge that exceeds any other reputable mechanic. Palm Beach, for example, has a variator job in there on any given day of the year, sometimes two, so I trust their advice. Other smaller dealers I've spoken with have never performed the work.

Finally, after having examined the design of many variators, I'm still confused on how this could ever damage valves. The sound you hear is the metal vanes inside the variator rattling against the internal cutout. It IS NOT the valves striking the piston! Yeah, if it does it enough, you'll throw a timing code, but by design the left-right limits of the variator will make it impossible for the cam to advance or delay to a dangerous limit.

 

[tk89]

Just a quick note that I took my QP in for work on the variators and they tried running a can of BG MOA through it first. It's only been about a week but it's cleared up about 99% of the rough running and occasional noise.

 

[ErikDiSomma]

Just a quick note that I took my QP in for work on the variators and they tried running a can of BG MOA through it first. It's only been about a week but it's cleared up about 99% of the rough running and occasional noise.

I'm really shocked that an oil additive improved the feel of the engine. I hope it was coincidental. Generally, a fuel additive could have that effect. The oil additive may contribute to a quieter engine, however. I tried a half bottle of Ferrari Tutela to improve my variator sound, but had no luck.