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ErikDiSomma

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
So, I decided to try out Mobil 1's "Annual Protection" formula in the QP. I generally change my oil every 2K-3K miles or so, so my intentions were not to put the oil's longevity claims to test. I did want to see if the formula that allows the company to make that claim would lend something in terms of lubrication, variator noise reduction or the like. The oil, by the way, is the most expensive on the market - double that of standard Mobil 1 EP Synthetic.

Well on my first test drive, I noticed that I had a rattle on acceleration that I've never heard before. It only starts when accelerating hard and I can only hear it in the cabin. By lunch time it got worse and the car threw the code P0010 - timing error on bank 1. My immediate thoughts were the bulk modulus of the oil wasn't strong enough to keep the solenoid on bank 1 in check, so I wanted to start by first changing out of that oil. The viscosity was lower than what I typically use (5w30) however I have used 5w30 EP with no issues in the past.

I purchased new oil at lunch and decided to change it yesterday afternoon - that is when I was shocked!

After draining the oil, I noticed pieces of a tan rubber - just like worms that had drained out with the oil. I picked them up and they had the same consistency, tan color and diameter as a chewed up rubber band. My first thought was that an internal gasket had given way somewhere in the top end and it drained out with the oil, possible accelerated by the recent oil change. But, after stretching the rubber with my fingers and placing a call to FM Orlando, who wholesales and sells more parts than any other dealership due to their proximity to the distributing center, they informed me that there is NOTHING IN THE ENGINE THAT RESEMBLES THE PIECES. It is indeed a rubber band.

So it turns out that the rubber band must have fallen into the oil at some point during manufacturing or pouring at Mobil 1. I did fill the sump using a 5-quart jug against a light red funnel, so spotting it would've been very difficult if not impossible.

Since I changed the oil to Valvoline last night, the code disappeared but the acceleration rattle still appears after the car is fully warmed up after about 15 min of driving. It is very possible that the rubber band could have traveled into bank 1 and slowed things down enough to trigger the camshaft position sensor to detect a fault. The rattle DOES NOT sound like a variator rattle - it sounds like a "ping," like the one you get when you use 87 octane in a high compression vehicle.

Just to confirm this is in fact a rubber band, I ask any of you if you recognize a light tan, thin rubber part that resembles a rubber band anywhere internally. I will post pictures shortly. Just keep in mind that it is heavily chewed up however it is very stretchy, just like a rubber band - unlike a typical gasket.

Any help is appreciated.

Erik
 
I think your gonna find it is not a rubber band, but rather an internal engine seal.. It is not dumb luck you have had noisy variators forever and now end up with debris in the oil and a camshaft timing vault...There is 3 scarf cut seals on the intake cam..I suppose it finally spit one out...Now you can do that write up you have been telling us all about for like 3 years now....Jason
 
Discussion starter · #4 ·
I think your gonna find it is not a rubber band, but rather an internal engine seal.. It is not dumb luck you have had noisy variators forever and now end up with debris in the oil and a camshaft timing vault...There is 3 scarf cut seals on the intake cam..I suppose it finally spit one out...Now you can do that write up you have been telling us all about for like 3 years now....Jason
I suspected the same in the beginning, which is what I said earlier. However, please read my post again:

1. The material is VERY stretchy - like a rubber band. For example, if it is 1.5" in diameter, you can easily stretch it out to 6" with your fingers. NO seal has this elasticity.

2. It is skin colored, not the typical black or green used in FM engines.

3. It is VERY THIN, unlike the cam seals.

4. It has a square cross section, unlike the cam seals.

5. I received a call from the dealer and they have confirmed that IT IS IN FACT A RUBBER BAND. They said I should attribute it to intentional sabotage (ex-girlfriend) or something in the oil prior to pouring it in. They have confirmed on their end that there are no seals that match size, texture and color that "are used by the factory at Ferrari or Maserati. It is quite simply, a rubber band."

6. This happened the day after the oil change. It is very odd and in an attempt to confirm even further that the dealer has not overlooked anything, I would like some feedback using the collective knowledge of this forum. Making a claim of negligence is a tall claim and I hold quite a bit of respect for Mobil 1. But, if you were holding this, you would agree, undeniably, that this is a rubber band.
 
Eric, it maybe indeed a rubber band...Most likely something fell into your funnel IMOP...I`m about to blow your rubber band theory right up....How would a rubber band make it past the oil pickup strainer, the oil pump, and end up in the cylinder head? and a non ferrous material sets a cam timing fault? Please don`t tell me the timing chain just threw it up there. In 28 years of working on cars I have never seen anything in a quart of anything..Not even a bug.. Did a rubber band fall out of someones hair net on the Mobil 1 bottling line? It honestly make me laugh...send the pic and I`ll tell you what I think...J
 
I'm also awaiting the photos
 
Yikes ! I've never used Mobil 1...but I will be putting a wire mesh on my oil funnel if it is indeed a rubber band ! Better safe than sorry ! BTW I don't change my QPs oil, the dealer does so if they get a rubber band in the engine they're at fault and must repair any damages lol
 
Yikes there is something wrong , better hit the red panic button and blame the manufacturer or the dealer . I like Jason have never found anything other than clean oil in a can of oil and I worked for 45 years. This stuf is made and packaged under near laboratory conditions .
And if you think it's getting past an oil pump with clearances in the order of 0.001" ".....
I have seen strings of RTV sealant in oil pans ,left by idiots who use way too much when reassembling engines ??
Stop pointing fingers , if you think it went down your funnel ,add a screen , you could hold it on with a rubber band .
Dave
 
Discussion starter · #11 ·
Jason - I agree with you. This is why I am trying to positively identify it as an internal part. I know you do alot of these so if anyone would recognize this, it would be you. If you say you recognize it, I will believe you 100%. I just don't want to speculate.

Keep in mind also, that the both FM Central Florida and FM Palm Beach recommended NOT replacing my variators. They say it is "not that bad at all" and my car is one of the quietest QPs they have heard at idle. If this is an engine part, I am hoping it is variator related but according to FM Central Florida, that is impossible.

Look closely at the zoomed in photo - the natural cross section is square/rectangular, like a rubber band. the other areas are either melted slightly and deformed and appear to be flattened by heat and/or something striking it.

Finally, Maserati is not a compatible vehicle by Mobil 1. So, I assume liability when I use their product so this repair, whatever it entails, will come out of my pocket.

So, if anyone recognizes this, please let me know.
 

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Discussion starter · #12 ·
Also, you must understand the conditions under which I work on my car.

I have a lift. The car and all components are kept sterile. Funnels are NOT reused - I have one for gearbox, one for F1 and one for oil. I have changed all fluids in this car on a regular basis, even power steering. Outside of oil, I use all factory recommended fluids and I sterilize the funnels and the pour spouts of all the containers prior to pouring. For example, the foil protection must be fully removed before I pour. There is simply NO WAY I dropped this into the funnel.

The only reason why I doubt the theory of Mobil 1's negligence is because I can't believe I didn't see it going in. I did, however use a semi-transparent red funnel which makes it difficult to see anything going in of this color. If I used a black funnel, then the margin of error would've been zero.
 
Jason - I agree with you. This is why I am trying to positively identify it as an internal part. I know you do alot of these so if anyone would recognize this, it would be you. If you say you recognize it, I will believe you 100%. I just don't want to speculate.

Keep in mind also, that the both FM Central Florida and FM Palm Beach recommended NOT replacing my variators. They say it is "not that bad at all" and my car is one of the quietest QPs they have heard at idle. If this is an engine part, I am hoping it is variator related but according to FM Central Florida, that is impossible.

Look closely at the zoomed in photo - the natural cross section is square/rectangular, like a rubber band. the other areas are either melted slightly and deformed and appear to be flattened by heat and/or something striking it.

Finally, Maserati is not a compatible vehicle by Mobil 1. So, I assume liability when I use their product so this repair, whatever it entails, will come out of my pocket.

So, if anyone recognizes this, please let me know.

The material might be rubber, but it looks like a sealing compound that was squeezed out of a tube, not a rubber band. Have you had the car since new?
 
Discussion starter · #14 · (Edited)
The material might be rubber, but it looks like a sealing compound that was squeezed out of a tube, not a rubber band. Have you had the car since new?
I purchased the car at 48K, however it was locally serviced only at the dealer prior to me. I have books/records since new. The case, covers, etc., have not been opened and according to the dealer, they are "factory marked," probably meaning the bolts have no scratches on them. I discussed this with them because I do have seepage on both sides - quite normal for post-50K cars. I have purchased the gaskets and plug rings (which are all black btw) but have not yet installed them. The intake manifold bolts have been turned obviously due to my second alternator replacement.

I am not trying to debunk this theory but I haven't seen any "tan" high-temp sealant on the market either. If it was not heat resistant, it certainly wouldn't have lasted even the 50K miles I have driven the car.

Also, there was limited time for the car to have had major work in between documented service intervals and my ownership. Prior to my owning the car, it still had substantial value and to spend tons of labor time disassembling an engine at an independent only to use tube sealant over spending $10-$80 on a gasket is hard to swallow. Not saying it cant happen; it's just like the rubber band theory - 99% unlikely but 100% possible.

These are the things that go through my mind, dealing with the process of elimination.
 
I`m assuming those came out of the sump rather than the engine block drain? I honestly have no idea what that is.. I work a Jaguar on straight 6 that use RTV for everything from the factory and when I have those part I don`t see anything that looks like that in the oil pan..Plus the one piece has a square shape to it so I`m not buying RTV..They appear too thick to be a rubber band and I would think the oil would just destroy a common rubber band..I actually took apart an old dry sump variator today and nothing in there looks like that..I still don`t see a how that would make camshaft error unless the pickup strainer is getting clogged and you don`t have enough oil pressure to advance the cams..My best advice...Drain the oil on the sump and remove that 4 bolt flange where the drain plug is...There is a pickup screen there...Check for debris..Jason
 
Discussion starter · #17 ·
The pictures are misleading. It is extremely thin - similar to the rubber bands which are used to hold paper together. If you handle it, you will agree - very thin, strong and stretchy. The zoomed in photos are on a blue terry-cloth towel - not carpeting.

I am willing to send you a piece to inspect if you wish. Any help at this point will be appreciated.

I did a heat test yesterday and it does not hold up to heat. I had a coil burner on VERY LOW and it not only melted when high-temp silicone didn't, but also it gave off the trademark "rubber" smell. An undeniable rubber smell. My intention was to rule out the idea of this being a sealant like Permatex, which is very heat resistant.

I changed the oil and filter this morning and there is no more debris. I inspected it thoroughly. The total length of the pieces, again, appear to make up a typical rubber band of common size.

Wow, I was curious if the sump had a strainer this morning when I changed the oil. I will be doing it again and checking.

Also, keep in mind the OBD warning disappeared with the next oil change (when the debris fell out) and never returned. The car still exhibits the ticking/rattle on acceleration but only after driving for like 30 min plus. It is VERY muted but noticable from the interior. The odd part is the sound started the same day of the original oil change and the same time as the OBD fault. Could be coincidence, but maybe not. I am still unable to hear the sound from outside the vehicle - even with someone else driving it on a quiet street at night. The driver confirmed the sound was there and apparent but I heard NOTHING from the outside. Strange.
 
I purchased the car at 48K, however it was locally serviced only at the dealer prior to me. I have books/records since new. The case, covers, etc., have not been opened and according to the dealer, they are "factory marked," probably meaning the bolts have no scratches on them. I discussed this with them because I do have seepage on both sides - quite normal for post-50K cars. I have purchased the gaskets and plug rings (which are all black btw) but have not yet installed them. The intake manifold bolts have been turned obviously due to my second alternator replacement.

I am not trying to debunk this theory but I haven't seen any "tan" high-temp sealant on the market either. If it was not heat resistant, it certainly wouldn't have lasted even the 50K miles I have driven the car.

Also, there was limited time for the car to have had major work in between documented service intervals and my ownership. Prior to my owning the car, it still had substantial value and to spend tons of labor time disassembling an engine at an independent only to use tube sealant over spending $10-$80 on a gasket is hard to swallow. Not saying it cant happen; it's just like the rubber band theory - 99% unlikely but 100% possible.

These are the things that go through my mind, dealing with the process of elimination.

Frustrating to say the least. That's something nobody wants to see regardless what it is or where it originated. I hope you get it figured out and that it hasn't caused any other issues.


Good Luck! :nerd:
 
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