More woes for Maserati

toshy · Jun 8, 2019

psb1013 said:
Maserati was doomed even before they produced the Levante. The key reasons are that they didn’t have a clear vision for what they wanted to be as a company and as mentioned previously, no clear idea who their core clientele were. They tried to compete with Mercedes and BMW but failed because they are NOT that type of company. Rolex doesn’t try to compete with Seiko or Movado. Maserati tried to appeal to the masses and it backfired terribly.

Something interesting I've noticed. The brand perception Americans have about Maserati is completely disconnected from the brand's history and values.

Maserati was never a Rolex, not even a Seiko. They were a quirky brand with a very sonorous (literally) name, and that's it. They were not even at Jaguar levels most of the time - I'm bringing Jaguar here because it's an example of a successful (kinda) transition. This is no way demeaning of the brand, they have a certain heritage and image that appeals to a certain type of people, but not in the way some people in the community want.

To be honest, the idea of merging Alfa and Maserati in a single company, Alfa dealing with the lower and Maserati with the higher end of the product line, was brilliant. What else could have they done? Go upmarket and compete with- and in what segment? I don't think there is another way for them to survive and thrive, not only live in the shadow of other companies, like they did in the past, and they do now with Ferrari. There is a huge niche (if I can call it like this) for an Italian car company with a full lineup. Where Alfa ends and where Maserati begins in terms of class/size/performance is a debate that could have been interesting. Look at Mercedes - nobody diminishes the quality and value of AMG GT (or a S Maybach) just because it shares the same logo on the front bumper with an A-Klasse.

Unfortunately marchionne was only good a financial swindles, and the plan flopped.
I'm a bit skeptic about the plans of his successors, but there is nothing we can do but wait and see what the future holds.

(hope I was coherent enough, not that I usually am

, but now I have a cold and running quite a high fever)

Cynabar · Jun 8, 2019

toshy said:
Something interesting I've noticed. The brand perception Americans have about Maserati is completely disconnected from the brand's history and values.

Maserati was never a Rolex, not even a Seiko. They were a quirky brand with a very sonorous (literally) name, and that's it.

(hope I was coherent enough, not that I usually am , but now I have a cold and running quite a high fever)

You are more than coherent in shedding light on corporate history and future of Maserati. We’ve been debating something that us American owners of the product, have only a vague knowledge of.

Honestly, I’d like to know more about the brand’s history and values that we here are missing.

psb1013 · Jun 8, 2019

There's nothing "quirky" about Maserati's heritage. They're as old (maybe older) as Ferrari and just as legendary. They were founded by the Alfieri brothers who had a passion about racing cars (same as Enzo Ferrari). They competed on the same circuits as Ferrari, Alfa's, and others and won their share of racing victories. However, what differentiated their path through time compared to Ferrari is their vision (or lack thereof) and the willingness to compromise. What made Ferrari so famous and made them the brand they are today is due to the sheer tenacity of Enzo Ferrari who stuck to his vision through the good times and bad. His absolute unwillingness to compromise is why Ferrari is so revered and their cars are so valuable today. Do you see Ferrari's advertised in newspapers or on online with big discounts or "lease specials?" No! Why are Ferrari's costing as much as a nice house and yet they don't have a problem with people buying 'em? Currently there is a 18 mo. waiting list for the new Ferrari SF90 Stradale which costs over $500K+ and isn't even out yet!! WHY?!! Because unwavering commitment to excellence time after time after time is freakin' valuable and people recognize and appreciate that! Imagine if Enzo sold his company to Ford back in the 1960's. What do you think would've happened to Ferrari now?.....Not so different from what is happening to Maserati I bet!

You can never underestimate how important it is for a company to have a leader who has an unshakeable belief in his/her vision and an unwavering committment to excellence........Enzo Ferrari, Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, Jeff Bezos, Mark Zuckerberg, Richard Branson, Warren Buffet, the list goes on and on. The unfortunate state of Maserati is the direct result of incompetent leadership over and over and over again,.....and it's really sad because they could've been every bit as successful as Ferrari with the right leadership.

SeanFulop · Jun 8, 2019

The Alfieri brothers? I suppose you mean the Maserati brothers, one of whom was named Alfieri (there were 5 brothers I think). But yes the marque has had many owners, and never began making cars for the public until the 1950s, long after the Maserati brothers had all sold out. Prior to that it was all racing cars. But the Maserati family had sold out by 1937, before Ferrari was even founded in 1939, so the founders were from a different generation than Enzo Ferrari. They were never in direct competition until the Maserati name was taken over by the Orsi family, I believe. But still beginning with the 3500 GT there was a succession of great cars through the golden age of the 1960s and 1970s, until the oil crisis and a lot of upheavals after that. More recently the "Ferrari era" from 2002-2012 brought some great cars, whose value remains low these days.

But yes since the successful golden age, and even through that time, Maserati has been more of a feather in someone else's cap, rather than a company whose success someone was devoted to.

paulchua · Jun 8, 2019

jw38 said:
When your main goal is to see SUVs, regardless of how "good" they are, you become a mass market brand. Maserati needs to go back to its roots if it truly want's to be a successful niche brand.

"FCA's decision to bundle Maserati with its Alfa Romeo marque under a single leader was a mistake, Manley told analysts on the automaker's third-quarter earnings call on Oct 30. "With hindsight, when we put Maserati and Alfa together, it did two things. Firstly, it reduced the focus on Maserati the brand. Secondly, Maserati was treated for a period of time almost as if it were a mass market brand, which it isn't and shouldn't be treated that way," Manley said."

I think this quote hits the nail on the head. I think the best thing for Maserati was when Ferrari was in control. I really would have left it in there and spun it out with Ferrari in exchange for even more capital transfer.

jlobo941 · Jun 8, 2019

toshy said:
You can't compare Ghibli with Giulia and Levante with Stelvio, they're in different classes and it's night and day difference in purpose.
I would expect this apples to oranges comparison to be made on some general car forum, not on a Maserati one.

Lol stop it.

ddsski · Jun 9, 2019

Owning both a Stelvio and my GTS, I am what they were trying to achieve. Get the customer in the showroom. They are different vehicles, both fabulous drivers. Maserati oozes luxury, Stelvio oozes sport.

There are quite a few Maserati's in my town now. At least as many as Jags. Well cared for and admired. It will take few years to see if this produces that second wave of buyers. Early Ghibli nightmares hurt them. How many vehicles did they sell annually 10yrs ago? I still see Maserati as a brand in its best health in many many years, with products that are actually getting quite reliable. Prime reason I am onboard. Would never have bought a Coupe gorgeous as they were, those trannies were destined to fail and eat $$$'s.

Juris · Jun 9, 2019

psb1013 said:
Maserati was doomed even before they produced the Levante. .

Curious how a company that "was doomed" 10 years before it produced the Levante (first revealed at the 2011 Frankfurt Auto Show) survived about 18 more years?

ddsski · Jun 9, 2019

Agreed Juris. I actually think they are in a good place at present. The Gran Turismo, historically, may go down as one of the finest, if not the finest GT car ever built. The Levante is a beautiful SUV and will actually be on my short list in a few years when its time to replace my Range Rover Sport as we are used to a slightly larger vehicle than the Stelvio for long distances (I, personally, would be very happy with it, the wife likes the extra space for all her stuff) The 2 sedans....they are in trouble as it is a dying segment of the industry. Can't believe it lasted as long as it did. They moved people but not stuff. All modern SUVs can haul, stuff and people. I grew up with hatchbacks....love them. My Stelvio is a 21st century HOT hatchback!

The Alfieri looks stunning and will be the next generation halo car for the brand. I don't want Maserati to grow too much.. There is a mystique, and extra special feeling to owning this Italian gem, something even my 2 Jag XJ's (98, 04)and XK(12) could not match. They are far from doomed and my local dealership is very happy with progress both Alfa and Maserati has made. Fiat has been a huge disappointment.

I have already realized I am much happier with the GTS is normal mode, letting it do what it does best...be a GT. Sport mode is great fun to blast through a few gears but the ride is unnecessarily firm. I'd love the sport button to just control the exhaust.

merak1974 · Jun 9, 2019

Actually, Maserati sales in the USA have picked up a little bit over the last year; the latest figures I have seen are March 2018 to March 2019, with a 2.3% increase over that year. Europe, and especially China (as mentioned by someone else earlier in this thread) are currently the main problem markets for the marque.

Maserati needs:

(1) A new sports car/GT range;
(2) more modern drive lines;
(3) an improved positioning in the market place, better aligned with their history.

A huge problem for Maserati under Fiat/FCA/Ferrari ownership and management has been that the marque necessarily has had to play second fiddle to Ferrari. In probably any other ownership/management set-up, Maserati would have been the crown jewel of a corporation, and treated as such. However, a corporate set-up involving Ferrari (its main adversary in racing as well as in the market place from the late 1940s to early 1980s), has kept Maserati alive, but "in the shadows". After the (Fiat) acquisition in the early 1990s, there has simply not been an option whatsoever to re-establish Maserati as Ferrari's main rival. The marque was rescued, not restored.

Miles&Miles · Jun 9, 2019

DSGT said:
Porsche went all in with their SUVs ( at the time I found that not just a despicable move but surely a death sentence to the brand's heritage and reputation, which would erode their sports cars lines appeal ) Man, was I wrong.. even though I still am not warmed up to the idea of Porsche soccer-mom cars, or even the sedans ( Panameras ), not only are all those models wildly successful, but it did not diminish Porsche's sports cars brand, customers loyalty, and the sports models sales in the least bit...they're all doing extremely well. Granted, as high end performance of a car manufacturer it may be, Porsche was and remains a mass market brand, unlike Maserati who is perceived to be a much more exclusive " exotic " ( for lack of better terminology ) , just a step below Ferrari, so not sure what the impact of the SUVs, and the blending in with Alfa will be .

Maybe they should rename the the Alfieri to....Alfalfa ?! :wink2:
The factory's test driver revealed :

Panamera Turbo is the best sedan I’ve ever owned. BMW Tesla and numerous AMG sedans are a few I’ve had

ddsski · Jun 9, 2019

Question, how many folks with a luxury sedan ever really use the back seats??? Just wondering.

Cynabar · Jun 9, 2019

ddsski said:
I have already realized I am much happier with the GTS is normal mode, letting it do what it does best...be a GT. Sport mode is great fun to blast through a few gears but the ride is unnecessarily firm. I'd love the sport button to just control the exhaust.

I’m with you on that but those of us have done the DBW upgrade know that it makes the normal mode (and the car) what it should have been in the first place. Further more, the sticky button issue should have been addressed a decade ago yet we still deal with it. I haven’t seen any evidence that these basic issues have been addressed, so how how can any brand move forward without constant improvement?

ddsski · Jun 9, 2019

Cynabar said:
I’m with you on that but those of us have done the DBW upgrade know that it makes the normal mode (and the car) what it should have been in the first place. Further more, the sticky button issue should have been addressed a decade ago yet we still deal with it. I haven’t seen any evidence that these basic issues have been addressed, so how how can any brand move forward without constant improvement?

Absolutely not!! If there is anything I hate about DBW is its ability to be ridiculously non-linear. If I need that extra .01 pedal response time, #1 I am in sport mode and #2 I better be on a track.

I suspect strongly that cleaning fluids are responsible for the sticky buttons. I have experienced this first hand in the house.

When Eurocompulsion tuned my Stelvio, I had the pedal feel customized. Feels stock in N mode so I can be my usual VERY smooth self. My Phase 2 tune is basically stock D mode pedal feel. Plenty fast that it is far more important to be in the right gear than be concerned with a .01 additional reaction time. NO HYPER PEDAL FOR ME. MY RIGHT FOOT HAS THAT COVERED. Not what I bought it for and you probably don't want to run into me because I don't brake for much and will use all the cornering potential, which is vast.

I am fine with the 10 year run of the GTS. Short of an outdated infotainment center which was updated in 2018, mechanically, maybe some magnetic dampers, but the rest of the vehicle is still top shelf. After an EC tune for a nice round 500 hp, plenty fast for a GT. Top end power is still very impressive. Now that I have learned the controls, they all work! Jaguar still has not caught up for example. Aston is in a different price zone. BMW 8 SERIES??? Don't really care, GTS is far more seductive looking. We both know which gets parked out front!

SeanFulop · Jun 10, 2019

Miles&Miles said:
Panamera Turbo is the best sedan I’ve ever owned. BMW Tesla and numerous AMG sedans are a few I’ve had

Truth be told, I own my Quattroporte largely because I couldn't afford a Panamera!

SeanFulop · Jun 10, 2019

ddsski said:
Question, how many folks with a luxury sedan ever really use the back seats??? Just wondering.

I have kids and I use them all the time and they love it back there. My son, who is naturally prone to messing around with everything (he burned his finger on the cigarette lighter) discovered numerous features of the QP that I didn't even know were there, for example the rear seat position adjustments, the rear seat heaters, and the switch that allows rear seat passengers to move the front passenger seat.

merak1974 · Jun 10, 2019

SeanFulop said:
I have kids and I use them all the time and they love it back there. My son, who is naturally prone to messing around with everything (he burned his finger on the cigarette lighter) discovered numerous features of the QP that I didn't even know were there, for example the rear seat position adjustments, the rear seat heaters, and the switch that allows rear seat passengers to move the front passenger seat.

Clever kid! :grin2:

ddsski · Jun 10, 2019

Thanks for the input

ErikDiSomma · Jun 10, 2019

SeanFulop said:
Truth be told, I own my Quattroporte largely because I couldn't afford a Panamera!

I'm too much of a "body over brains" kind of guy. The Panamera looks too much like a stretched AMC Pacer with LEDs in my opinion.

You should watch the Top Gear comparison between the two on YouTube - Jeremy Clarkson had to avoid looking into plate glass windows driving that thing in fear of seeing its reflection!

DSGT · Jun 10, 2019

ErikDiSomma said:
I'm too much of a "body over brains" kind of guy. The Panamera looks too much like a stretched AMC Pacer with LEDs in my opinion.

+1 .

BTW, speaking of Maserati woes.. check out this article on PLUNGING values of some Lamborghinis, Aston Martins, Rolls Royces, etc..

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/rolls-royce-aston-martin-lamborghini-083001669.html

More woes for Maserati

toshy

Cynabar

psb1013

SeanFulop

paulchua

jlobo941

ddsski

Juris

ddsski

merak1974

Miles&Miles

ddsski

Cynabar

ddsski

SeanFulop

SeanFulop

merak1974

ddsski

ErikDiSomma

DSGT

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