GranTurismo to follow Coupe in used car pricing?

xxxpres · Nov 14, 2010

I can understand the valid reasons for depreciation, I just feel that the GranTurismo is just so well thought out, beautiful, well built, and all things considered great value. Personally, Im not really too concerned with depreciation because we purchase cars to keep them. Resale is quite rare when we choose to add another vehicle, however, it is nice to know that what you paid for will hold its value regardless. That being said, there are so many reasons why other models, i.e. the S1 Quattroporte's will tend to depreciate rapidly. The main reason for the Quattroporte is the maintenance costs. The early F1 systems are the main issue, but the GranTurismo's dont have to worry about this. The biggest conflict for me is that in the quest for reliability, there has been much sacrifice in term of purity and performance. I never regret taking an early Quattroporte because they are the most raw and supercar feeling of all of this range. The gearbox is the most aggressive, the focus is more toward supercar vs limousine, and personally, I didnt like the facelift. Best of all, it uses a dry sump system, which I feel is the biggest let down in terms of major changes. If future replacements keep becoming more "normal", then I believe that these early cars will hold special value for many who feel that these more recent models "are what a Maserati should always have been." When you look at a GranTurismo even before considering all the value, can you really say that it wont be worth so much more than anything of similar MSRP or age?

royalpar1 · Nov 14, 2010

xxxpres said:
I can understand the valid reasons for depreciation, I just feel that the GranTurismo is just so well thought out, beautiful, well built, and all things considered great value. Personally, Im not really too concerned with depreciation because we purchase cars to keep them. Resale is quite rare when we choose to add another vehicle, however, it is nice to know that what you paid for will hold its value regardless. That being said, there are so many reasons why other models, i.e. the S1 Quattroporte's will tend to depreciate rapidly. The main reason for the Quattroporte is the maintenance costs. The early F1 systems are the main issue, but the GranTurismo's dont have to worry about this. The biggest conflict for me is that in the quest for reliability, there has been much sacrifice in term of purity and performance. I never regret taking an early Quattroporte because they are the most raw and supercar feeling of all of this range. The gearbox is the most aggressive, the focus is more toward supercar vs limousine, and personally, I didnt like the facelift. Best of all, it uses a dry sump system, which I feel is the biggest let down in terms of major changes. If future replacements keep becoming more "normal", then I believe that these early cars will hold special value for many who feel that these more recent models "are what a Maserati should always have been." When you look at a GranTurismo even before considering all the value, can you really say that it wont be worth so much more than anything of similar MSRP or age?

Of course, we all hope you are correct ! In the mean time we should all drive them safely, and have the health to enjoy the excitement of the car. Its really wierd thinking of selling the car when you just get it and start to enjoy it. :autofahrer: Drive, Smile, Laugh and enjoy we own one of the last of the breed.

TravisJ · Nov 15, 2010

Neo said:
Do you think GT’s will hold their value better than the coupes have?

No, depreciation is a part of the game.

Neo said:
In another 2 years I think GT’s will be in the 50’s

Agreed (if not sooner). For those that don't believe, search old threads like this where people were trying to predict future values of various cars. I remember predictions of a value "floor" around $30k for 4200 series Maseratis. Wholesale is already in the low $20ks for some of those cars and dropping.

Greg23 said:
Honestly I think that Ferrari is the only car that is holding their value.

Tell that to the guys that bought $200k+ F430s two years ago. Modern Ferraris have taken a huge hit just like the rest.

royalpar1 · Nov 15, 2010

Greg23 said:
I like to take as an example the Alfa 8C, today the used ones are selling about 20-30k less than sticker that like a 6-7% depreciation which is nothing for a 3 year old car. The 8C is a car that in 5-10 years will be sold much over sticker price...

Just my 2 cents!

Just saw 2 for sale at the Festival of Speed in Miami at Bay Front Park, 2009 8C, sticker price was 340k, asking 195k, without ANY negotiation. As of course I was not a serious buyer. I think we all can agree this is not a 7% swing on a 2 year old car. Drive a car for 5 minutes after it is titled, and you will of course take a hit. Again, modern cars today do not a great investment make. Enjoy the car, drive it like you stole it and if you are buying one or own one, why make yourself crazy on depreciation until you are switching out.

TravisJ · Nov 15, 2010

royalpar1 said:
Just saw 2 for sale at the Festival of Speed in Miami at Bay Front Park, 2009 8C, sticker price was 340k, asking 195k, without ANY negotiation. As of course I was not a serious buyer. I think we all can agree this is not a 7% swing on a 2 year old car. Drive a car for 5 minutes after it is titled, and you will of course take a hit. Again, modern cars today do not a great investment make. Enjoy the car, drive it like you stole it and if you are buying one or own one, why make yourself crazy on depreciation until you are switching out.

There is a nice 8C at Maserati of Minneapolis. Asking price has been reduced by over $70k in the two years it sat there unsold.

Neo · Nov 15, 2010

If I was being even remotely practical I shouldn’t even look at a Maserati, I should just finish paying off my house and bank everything for retirement and the kids college, but where is the fun in that?

The only reason I’m even considering it is:

I can’t convince my wife to build a new house.
It’s fantastically gorgeous and yet has 4 real seats.
It sounds even better than it looks.
Depreciation is quite brisk.

Some concerns will be for reliability which I hope to find out as some members here put miles on their cars. I know that for many here the car will be a 3rd or 4th car with 5k miles on it a year. Perhaps one left at a house where it can be enjoyed in the winter months. For me it needs to run as good and reliably as any other car, it’s not like there are 10 Maserati dealerships in a 30 mile radius of my house (I think there are two within a 90 min drive assuming Maserati of Towson is still in business).

I’ll need to see if there is something likely to pop when it hits 70-100k, if so is it a $2-3k fix or a $10k fix? Overall I’m not worried about the transmission and I’d hope the engine would be solid. I mean if Kia or Ford can make an engine that goes 150k miles without any real issues I sure hope Ferrari could. Time will tell…

Realistically I’ll probably end up with a new or 1 year old M3, it’s a more practical choice, can be had with 4 doors, has good performance and some luxury. But then I’ve always had to do something practical why trying to keep the driving experience fun. For once I’d like something dream worthy, something special; something I enjoy washing and waxing and changing the oil in instead of one I have to.

If I do end up with one it won’t be a garage queen, it will commute 60 miles a day, 5 days a week in snow or shine, hauling two kids to school once or twice a week. It’s going to see salt, sun, rock chips and spirited driving, and head shakes from my entire extended family/coworkers and mutters of spendthrift and being uppity.

TravisJ · Nov 15, 2010

Neo said:
I’ll need to see if there is something likely to pop when it hits 70-100k, if so is it a $2-3k fix or a $10k fix?

These cars are very reliable in general. With that said, there are plenty of things that can "pop" once the car is out of warranty. Five figure repair bills in the exotic car world aren't as uncommon as some people think. GranTourismos haven't been around long enough for the community to know about all the potential landmines. For example, 4200 series Maseratis have common pre-cat failures that cost over $10K to fix using factory parts. 3 years ago, owners did not know these were common failures. It will take time to figure some of that stuff out.

Neo said:
I mean if Kia or Ford can make an engine that goes 150k miles without any real issues I sure hope Ferrari could.

The engine won't be made by Ferrari (Maserati makes their own) but they are reliable regardless. As with my reply above, it is still a bit early to know about trouble spots.

Neo said:
Realistically I’ll probably end up with a new or 1 year old M3

I can see how the M3 is attractive to some but it is just too plain and boring for a fun car, IMHO (I have a BMW as my daily driver). The Maserati will put a smile on your face every time you open the garage door.

Neo said:
If I do end up with one it won’t be a garage queen, it will commute 60 miles a day, 5 days a week in snow or shine, hauling two kids to school once or twice a week.

I get the commute part. The miles will accelerate depreciation a ton but you only live once and there is no point in buying a car just to let it sit in the garage.

The snow part may leave you disappointed. Maseratis are absolutely NO FUN to drive in the snow. It can be done, you just won't enjoy it.

michaeladler · Nov 15, 2010

A business friend of mine just told me his wife's Lexus IS is just out of warranty and needs a new gearbox-guess how much, would you believe $7,000? And that is Lexus junk!

MR.BOOMBAH · Nov 15, 2010

I'm guessing in 2 years these will be IN 60-65k range and make a nice daily driver
or weekend car for someone

'09 Maserati Granturismo S MC Sportline

TravisJ · Nov 16, 2010

MR.BOOMBAH said:
I'm guessing in 2 years these will be IN 60-65k range

I'm guessing we will see 2008 GranTourismos in that range within 9 months.

MRossi · Nov 17, 2010

My Two Cents

I agree with Travis. If you look on Cars.com, '08 Granturismos are already hitting $69,900 asking price. Who knows how low you can go by negotiating.

If the '08s keep depreciating like they already have been, you would expect to see a $10,000 per year drop for the '08s from here on, with a bottoming out somewhere, probably in the $45,000 range.

I see the '09s following suit, but bottoming out a little higher, probably in the mid $50,000 range, given the 4.7 liter engine, and other options you can get in the S with the F1 and S with the automatic.

I think both developments are sad for the marque, but that's where I see things going.

The one potential saving grace is that it is possible these Masers, unlike certain models of BMWs, Mercedes, Audis, etc. have a bottom under which they will not fall. For example, my 2007 SL 55 AMG does not appear to have a bottom, based on asking pricess of earlier-year SL AMG models I'm tracking on Cars.com. Given that, I will probably keep the SL 55 AMG for as long as it is not costly to maintain, in order to get as much value out of it as I can.

But if you buy a used Granturismo in the $70,000 or $80,000 range, and it hits a floor of $40,000 or so, that's really not that bad, compared to what might happen if one buys a comparable German car.

Just my two cents, anyway.

TravisJ · Nov 17, 2010

I suspect the value "bottom" is somewhere around $15K.

MRossi · Nov 17, 2010

Bottom of Depreciation Curve

A bottom of $15,000?! That's a very depressing thought. :thumbsdown:The 04-06 Coupes and Gransports haven't fallen that low yet, 5+ years on. I was thinking that they would bottom out in the $25,000 range and the Granturismo would bottom out above that, given the different nature of the cars and different starting price point.

Okay, so I presume this thread will still be on the forum several years from now, and we can resurrect it to see how close we were in our predictions.

Neo · Nov 17, 2010

That's a good idea, place your bets on what the bottom will be. I'm thinking a 2009, 4.7l Automatic (as this is what I’d be interested in) in spring of 2013 or 2.5 years from now will be $60-65k. For me hopefully less but that’s my guess. After all is said and done say 8 years I’d say $20-25k.

For any of you that hold on to your GT’s and rack up some miles I will be very interested in any issues you come across (I’m not expecting anything with the ZF transmission or engine but perhaps electrical or maybe something else will crop up).

TravisJ · Nov 17, 2010

MRossi said:
A bottom of $15,000?! That's a very depressing thought. :thumbsdown:The 04-06 Coupes and Gransports haven't fallen that low yet, 5+ years on. I was thinking that they would bottom out in the $25,000 range and the Granturismo would bottom out above that, given the different nature of the cars and different starting price.

'02s are currently trading in the high teens at wholesale. Prices are low and there is no sign of slowing down.

Neo said:
That's a good idea, place your bets on what the bottom will be.

it is interesting to look back. Here is a thread from 4 years ago with guys convinced 4200 series cars were bottoming out at $40k. For some reason, owners like to believe depreciation has a "bottom" even when $100k Mercedes and BMWs get down to the teens.
http://www.maseratilife.com/forums/coupe-spyder-gs/1359-new-resigned-2007-coupe.html

Infidel · Nov 17, 2010

The "bottom" is generally the price point where the cars are worth more carved up and sold as parts than they are as complete vehicles. Early Coupes and Spyders are very near this price point. We won't see them falling much lower.

Also, we have to define retail versus wholesale markets. Wholesale prices on Coupes and Spyders have generally collapsed due to a number of factors including:

1. A horrible economy that has produced low retail demand for used exotics
2. Most early Coupes and Spyders found in dealer auctions are old enough now that they are well used, with higher miles and are poorly maintained
3. The insanely high price of repairing/refurbishing a Coupe or Spyder forces the prospective dealer to be extremely cautious on buy-side pricing.

That being said, the "spread" between run of the mill junk and extremely well-cared for vehicles is considerable. Everyone in the exotic world knows the Cardinal Rule is to buy the absolute best car you can afford. Spending an extra $5,000 to get a super nice vehicle is a lot smarter than buying some cheap basket case and getting stuck for $15,000 in repairs just to get it to pass state inspection.

My local Maserati dealer has one such Spyder sitting on the back of his lot. An '04 that a dealer (unfamiliar with exotics) purchased at a so-called "can't miss" price at auction. He's looking at upwards of $20,000 in repair costs just to get it to pass a state inspection.

TravisJ · Nov 18, 2010

Infidel said:
The "bottom" is generally the price point where the cars are worth more carved up and sold as parts than they are as complete vehicles.

Agreed. I would speculate the car would need to be worth two or three times more as parts than as a whole before a "bottom" is found. Dismantlers don't make money getting a one to one. Also, it takes a LONG time to part out a car. Things like bumpers or a windshield may sell within weeks or months. Other parts may take years, if they ever sell. This is where the multiple is needed for the deal to be profitable.

MR.BOOMBAH · Feb 2, 2011

TravisJ said:
I'm guessing we will see 2008 GranTourismos in that range within 9 months.

Nice call. I was offered 2 diferent cars from general manager at dealship for 64k and
66k both had under 10,000 miles. Wrong color though- I'm looking for White.
The 08's might be hi 50's by summer. I'm still thinking about an 09
GT-R over the granturismo as it will be a semi DD.

Sunshine · Feb 3, 2011

Cars depreciate, that's a fact (may be less so for Ferrari but the brand also appeals to a large number of people who do not drive them, or so little, so they can say they own one and then resell them without appreciating them as they should have by...using them regularly). Maserati people are drivers, they enjoy their cars and are not afraid of using them daily.

I do not know the depreciation of the Gran Turismo in a few years, but it seems to me that it should hold a better value than the Coupe. Why? Because it is so much more sexy and good looking, because it is even more reliable, more exciting to drive, etc...

NRJ · Feb 3, 2011

You don't think that the economical crisis affect also resale value of an exotic car ? Compare the value of a 4 years old maserati before 2008 and same 4 years car in 2009 or 2010 ... So now if we are going to be out of the crisis you will see more buyer and the price will retain a little bit more ... That will be the same with brand new car less discount after the crisis ... That my idea ...

GranTurismo to follow Coupe in used car pricing?

xxxpres

royalpar1

TravisJ

royalpar1

TravisJ

Neo

TravisJ

michaeladler

MR.BOOMBAH

TravisJ

MRossi

TravisJ

MRossi

Neo

TravisJ

Infidel

TravisJ

MR.BOOMBAH

Sunshine

NRJ

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