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4200 gt manual clutch bleed

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Chris L.

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
Hello everyone, I hope everyone is doing well.

I was doing a brake/clutch fluid change on my 04 coupe gt. Brakes all went well with no issue.
Then when I went to bleed the clutch and nothing. I can't get the fluid to come through. I know that the clutch pedal needs to be pulled all the way back for it to fill and then pumped. I can hear it gurgling about and do see a little fluid come through but I cannot get it to fully bleed through. Even when using a hand vacuum pump.
Clearly I am doing something wrong. but can't quite figure it out.

Any insight would be of great help.
Thank you in advance for any help.
 
Discussion starter · #3 ·
Tony H said:
The clutch connection is high up on the reservoir so do you have enough fluid in the brake reservoir?
Click to expand...
Hello!
Yes, the reservoir is full to the top. When the pedal is pumped it does come down a few mm in the reservoir and I do get a tiny bit out on the hose. But I can't get a full flow to come out. Pulled the bleed valve out and made sure the bleeder wasn't blocked. All clear.
 
Discussion starter · #5 ·
Jason@ Enzo`s Atlanta said:
Sometimes the best way to bleed a clutch is reverse....You'll need a large syringe from amazon etc...You push the fluid back via the bleed screw... J
Click to expand...
I was thinking about that. I've ordered a bleed kit that you hook up to your compressor. If that doesn't work then I will try pushing it through.
A question though. When pushing through is it best to have someone hold the clutch pedal up all the way? Or will the pressure of pushing the fluid through fill up the pedal all the way?
 
#7 ·
Have you tried bleeding the clutch with a helper, similar to the way brakes were traditionally bled? It’s been some time since I did this on a similar car, but we didn’t have any issues with two people.
 
Discussion starter · #8 ·
82elky said:
Have you tried bleeding the clutch with a helper, similar to the way brakes were traditionally bled? It’s been some time since I did this on a similar car, but we didn’t have any issues with two people.
Click to expand...
Yes, there was two of us. One pumping the pedal and myself trying to suck the air out of the line. I am going to do the bleed from the bottom up. That way any air will definitely get pushed to the top and out.
It's my plan for the weekend.

Thanks again to everyone for the help and input. I will post an update once I am at it again.
 
#9 ·
Like I said reverse bleed is your best bet..This isn't a hobby and you end up having to reverse bleed a lot of makes clutches...Especially BMWs... It works...J
 
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Discussion starter · #10 ·
Hi Everyone!
OK, no success and I am thinking I might have a blocked line as I cannot push any fluid up from the bottom, nor can I suck or push any fluid up from the line when I disconnect it from the master cylinder at the top.

But first I am going to start at the beginning and act like this is my first time bleeding a clutch. With my frustration, I might not be seeing something or missing a step.

So, I am going to ask for a step by step instruction on bleeding this clutch from the members, without typing any steps I have done. Please.

I want to make sure that the steps I am doing match up, and if they do, then my next step will be to try to unblock the line or disassembly (which hopefully I don't have to do).

Thank you again to all those that help. This makes this site and community a great source of knowledge!
 
#11 ·
Lines don't normally block especially if it was working before you started flushing the fluid.
1.) fill large syringe with brake fluid and attach rubber hose....hold upright and tap to remove the air bubbles..
2.) remove reservoir cap
3.) attach hose to bleed screw and open bleed screw and start forcing the fluid.
4.) close the bleed screw when syringe is empty.
5.) clean up mess in reservoir area with water.

Honestly, you shouldn't have dicked around with the clutch..It's really not under much stress and I would have probably left it...Your current situation is sometimes what happens with hydraulic clutches and they can be a PITA to get bleed again...The reverse bleed is your best bet...J
 
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#12 ·
Chris L. said:
Hi Everyone!
OK, no success and I am thinking I might have a blocked line as I cannot push any fluid up from the bottom, nor can I suck or push any fluid up from the line when I disconnect it from the master cylinder at the top.

But first I am going to start at the beginning and act like this is my first time bleeding a clutch. With my frustration, I might not be seeing something or missing a step.

So, I am going to ask for a step by step instruction on bleeding this clutch from the members, without typing any steps I have done. Please.

I want to make sure that the steps I am doing match up, and if they do, then my next step will be to try to unblock the line or disassembly (which hopefully I don't have to do).

Thank you again to all those that help. This makes this site and community a great source of knowledge!
Click to expand...
A chap here had a blockage in the clutch line. For info. and details of his issue & fix:

UNUSUAL CLUTCH FAILURE ON 4200 GT ............. SOLID BRAKE FLUID!

I purchased a manual 4200 GT in December last year thinking that at 25000 mile I should have little or no problem from the clutch. Well, after about 200 miles the changing gear became a bit balky and at 250 miles the clutch wouldn't release properly with the pedal going about halfway down...
www.sportsmaserati.com www.sportsmaserati.com
 
Discussion starter · #13 ·
Jason@ Enzo`s Atlanta said:
Lines don't normally block especially if it was working before you started flushing the fluid.
1.) fill large syringe with brake fluid and attach rubber hose....hold upright and tap to remove the air bubbles..
2.) remove reservoir cap
3.) attach hose to bleed screw and open bleed screw and start forcing the fluid.
4.) close the bleed screw when syringe is empty.
5.) clean up mess in reservoir area with water.

Honestly, you shouldn't have dicked around with the clutch..It's really not under much stress and I would have probably left it...Your current situation is sometimes what happens with hydraulic clutches and they can be a PITA to get bleed again...The reverse bleed is your best bet...J
Click to expand...
Thank you, clutch was feeling soft and needed a bleed. So it needed addressing.

Ok, I wasn't going crazy then. I was doing that exact procedure, with a 500ml syringe but I cannot get any fluid to to go in. I am not sure what is up. I have done clutches before. But I can't figure out what changed from when I opened the bleed screw. To bleed the system. It was on hose with a vacuum pump. I should have gotten something.
When using the syringe I can't force anything in and believe me I am trying.

I am going to read the article that another member posted on blocked lines and see if that makes any sense to my issue.

Thank you again for your help. I am just a little baffled on why I have this issue with only the clutch. Everything else bled perfectly. I am not giving up, tomorrow I will be at it again.
 
Discussion starter · #15 ·
Jason@ Enzo`s Atlanta said:
The vacuum deal bleeders kinda suck...They pull air around the bleed screw..You don't see a lot of pros using that stuff..J
Click to expand...
I agree now with experience using it, but even using the syringe I can't get fluid through the system. Hence it's leading me to the block line possibly.
Could a blast of compressed air upwards through the system possibly help clearing the pathway?
I am just throwing ideas out there before I go down the path of ripping everything apart.
 
#16 ·
I had a similar problem many years ago when bleeding the clutch fluid after doing a clutch change on my GT 4200 manual gear change car. The problem turned out to be that the fluid had crystallized in the clutch master cylinder effectively blocking the fluid from passing through. It was the first clutch change on the car that was 10 years old with about 60000 miles on it.

Although the brake fluid had been changed many times the small amount of fluid in the clutch line had not been flushed through in 10 years hence why I suspect it had crystallized- there is a lot of heat in the engine bay and this probably speeds up the crystallization process. I now bleed the clutch fluid line every 3 years when I replace the brake fluid to prevent this happening again. The clutch master cylinder was so clogged up I just replaced it rather than try to clean it out.

As previously mentioned in this post it is vital that you pull the clutch pedal back by hand (try this first) as if it does not return by even 1mm the fluid cannot pass through the clutch line. My clutch pedal went floppy (along with a few body parts) in France while on one of our Sportsmaserati Le Mans trips due to the clutch pedal not returning back properly causing all sorts of woes until I discovered the pedal was not returning by the slightest amount.

Hope this helps,

Terry
 
Discussion starter · #17 ·
Masertel said:
I had a similar problem many years ago when bleeding the clutch fluid after doing a clutch change on my GT 4200 manual gear change car. The problem turned out to be that the fluid had crystallized in the clutch master cylinder effectively blocking the fluid from passing through. It was the first clutch change on the car that was 10 years old with about 60000 miles on it.

Although the brake fluid had been changed many times the small amount of fluid in the clutch line had not been flushed through in 10 years hence why I suspect it had crystallized- there is a lot of heat in the engine bay and this probably speeds up the crystallization process. I now bleed the clutch fluid line every 3 years when I replace the brake fluid to prevent this happening again. The clutch master cylinder was so clogged up I just replaced it rather than try to clean it out.

As previously mentioned in this post it is vital that you pull the clutch pedal back by hand (try this first) as if it does not return by even 1mm the fluid cannot pass through the clutch line. My clutch pedal went floppy (along with a few body parts) in France while on one of our Sportsmaserati Le Mans trips due to the clutch pedal not returning back properly causing all sorts of woes until I discovered the pedal was not returning by the slightest amount.

Hope this helps,

Terry
Click to expand...
Thank you, I have pulled the master cylinder and given it a thorough cleaning. Disconnected the the lines below the car to try and localize the issue. I can push fluid through the bottom part. I then went back to the top and tried to push a wire through the hose that connects to the master cylinder to the clutch pump and it only goes to the length of the hose and nothing further. It also doesn't pull any fluid from the master cylinder, So there is my block!
My next step will be to remove it and clean it out. I have been told hot water will breakdown the crystalline deposits. And then I'll put it all beck together. It's been a slow process as I have been busy doing other things. But we'll get it done.

I want to thank everyone for all thier help. It has been great and shows our passion for these cars.
 
#18 ·
Masertel said:
I had a similar problem many years ago when bleeding the clutch fluid after doing a clutch change on my GT 4200 manual gear change car. The problem turned out to be that the fluid had crystallized in the clutch master cylinder effectively blocking the fluid from passing through. It was the first clutch change on the car that was 10 years old with about 60000 miles on it.

Although the brake fluid had been changed many times the small amount of fluid in the clutch line had not been flushed through in 10 years hence why I suspect it had crystallized- there is a lot of heat in the engine bay and this probably speeds up the crystallization process. I now bleed the clutch fluid line every 3 years when I replace the brake fluid to prevent this happening again. The clutch master cylinder was so clogged up I just replaced it rather than try to clean it out.

As previously mentioned in this post it is vital that you pull the clutch pedal back by hand (try this first) as if it does not return by even 1mm the fluid cannot pass through the clutch line. My clutch pedal went floppy (along with a few body parts) in France while on one of our Sportsmaserati Le Mans trips due to the clutch pedal not returning back properly causing all sorts of woes until I discovered the pedal was not returning by the slightest amount.

Hope this helps,

Terry
Click to expand...
Good info
Followed your advice on the Sports Maserati thread.
I had a problem where the circlip had come off that connects the pushrod to the clutch pedal. The ciirclip fits in the clutch pedal to hold the pushrod in place, without it the clutch pedal will return but not quite fully creating the problems you mention in your last paragraph.
pita to put into place.
 
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