Maserati Forum banner
Cancel
Create thread New Garage Forums

Can you replace F1 to Gated manual shifting?

Jump to Latest
5.3K views 24 replies 7 participants last post by  Cdn17Sport6MT  
1
#1 ·
Hello to All, so I’ve got a 2002 Spyder 4200, looks like it should be Fun, butt sadly not. And this is due to the F1 shifting, I’d truly love to have a full manual shifting unit, but they are very difficult to find.

So I’d like to see if I can convert this to a 100% fully manual shifting unit, or I’ll sell it and look for another car that’s gated.

Any thoughts on this?

😊
 
#4 · (Edited)
Honesty, the 3 pedals versions of those cars are not cool IMO...The shifter is like a stick in a bucket of jello and the clutch pedal feel isn't good either...F1 is the way to go on a 4200...A 4200 isn't a Ferrari and is a different type car...I still love driving them...small car with a big motor..It is like driving a PWC. Jason
 
Save
Reply Quote Like Like
1
#5 ·
Sold my 348TS and F355 Spyder, both gated a few years back as all I did was work. Now I’ve got some more time to do things. I found this car and it was a Whole Lot Less Cash then the ones I’ve sold. It’s a good car, just not the same as a F Car. Maybe over the winter I might have a change of heart. I do plan on the Dynamics Wire Kit for the improvement of throttle and shifting, if that kicks this car into gear, will I might keep it. Just not going to put $15-20k into something and still not loving it. Any advise is greatly appreciated.
Cheers!
 
C
#7 · (Edited)
I think what could be at play, here, is that the programming of the Cambiocorsa is very similar to that in the Ferrari F1 transaxle, in that the shifting speed is correlated to engine rpm and throttle opening, but the state of tune for the engine is milder than the Ferrari. That means the engine is happier on the Maser at mid-range RPM's... but the shift positivity and speed remains slowish unless you 'kinda force the shift point to be at higher rpm/throttle position. By comparison the Ferrari engine naturally wants to be at higher rpm where the F1 trans tends to shift in a snappier way.

This means that the TCU tuning should be optimized (or maybe more-optimized?) to the actual car, i.e. to the Maser, not the Ferrari. This may not have been done... ???

The state of tune of an engine tends to govern it's feel, and influences the rpm where the driver feels the engine is at a "happy" point.

Others: does this idea have merit?
 
#8 ·
They are just different cars and the way the gearbox shifts it vastly different...Even a Ferrari at idle the clutch engagement is like an on-off switch...The Maserati is more of a luxury car than sports car and has a lot more slip then say a 360...You can lower the slip on the Maserati a good bit by bringing the PIS down to a real low figure ...Shifts are just faster on a 360 for sure as you are reaching the higher levels of that system with higher pressures and better software than a 4200...J
 
  • Like
Reactions: Cdn17Sport6MT
Save
Reply Quote Like Like
C
#9 ·
Fair comment, Jason.

The Formula Dynamics Drive By Wire, DBW, it spoofs the throttle position signal, I believe, and so it effectively speeds up the shifting under less than aggressive throttle positions, RPM's...

If that's what a person wants, it appears to me to be a worthwhile addition. I suppose it trades away a bit of driver control of shift speed (like when the car, and in reality, the transaxle is cold, when you want the transaxle to shift slowly to gain synchronizer longevity, make it easier on the synchro's). Maybe the DBW unit still respects differences between Normal and Sport, though...? Cars ought to be kept in Manual Normal 'til the 'box is warm, in my view...
 
#10 ·
I'm honesty not how sure the quick shifting hammers the synchros etc...Either way I'm kinda old school and let a car engine still warm up and let everything else as well before I start beating on a vehicle...Jason
 
  • Like
Reactions: twinspark
Save
Reply Quote Like Like
C
#11 ·
I've never had a manual car that doesn't "appreciate" having its manual transmission/transaxle being warmed up before shifting... and I'm talking about normal, grandma shifting. If first to second feels "notchy" when cold, and not when hot - then the cold shift is (on a micro scale) rounding the respective gear's dog teeth/synchro sleeve teeth. So, on my straight-gut manual cars I shift first to second when cold, at walking pace 'til warmer or warmish, and I downshift 3rd to 2nd at low speeds, always double-clutching... at least 'til it's warm.

The Graziano is a 'manual box that has robotized shifting. Same internals.

These cars, I agree, appreciate a warm up. They're exotics...
 
#15 ·
I think that was some internet folklore if I remember correctly..There was some guy on F-chat that messed with one etc...Lambertius on here looked into it at one point..Those TCMs are probably not that easy to program as a lot of older stuff like that likes to crash during the process....Jason
 
  • Like
Reactions: Cdn17Sport6MT
Save
Reply Quote Like Like
C
#17 ·
I agree. The latter fellow is in France I believe, and I understand he is very active in the F community. Aldous Voice, in the UK, he takes cars like standard trim Ferrari 360's and he can fit Challenge Stradale TCU's. Those TCU's double-clutch, even upshifting, under some aggressive conditions, for reason of actually shifting faster, i.e. being quicker to engage the next gear. It is done lightening-quick, due to the automation.
 
#20 ·
That looks like "I know a dude" IMO as his post are from like 2013 as far as reflashing a 360 TCM? ...A normal shop can't really do anything like that and I"m pretty sure the dealer can't/ won't do anything like that...Jason
 
Save
Reply Quote Like Like
C
#21 ·
I think Aldous Voice takes CS TCU's and installs them on more common-day F360's, F430's... but I can't remember. In any case, those Challenge Stradale TCU's are "the business", so to speak, with regard to optimizing the F1 system. I think the question, re the 4200 Maser, ought to be put directly to Aldous. Note that the 4200 Coupé and Spyder are SOFAST2 and earlier... not as advanced as the QP-V's, maybe don't have clutch thow-out bearing operating pressure transmitter, etc.
 
#22 ·
I'm not an expert on all the different TCM numbers etc. in the least..That being said...The 360 and 430 use a different pump and the systems runs at a fair amount higher pressure...I think like 20 bar? So swapping a TCU or using software from a totally different vehicle doesn't really make sense too me in the least unless you are in the business of making problems...Jason
 
Save
Reply Quote Like Like
B
#23 ·
1Roger said:
Hello to All, so I’ve got a 2002 Spyder 4200, looks like it should be Fun, butt sadly not. And this is due to the F1 shifting, I’d truly love to have a full manual shifting unit, but they are very difficult to find.

So I’d like to see if I can convert this to a 100% fully manual shifting unit, or I’ll sell it and look for another car that’s gated.

Any thoughts on this?

😊
Click to expand...
Have you tried it in Sports mode? Loved the paddle shift in mine but only in sports mode.
 
Maserati Forum
posts
447K
members
45K
Since
2003
We’re a forum to discuss the Maserati Coupé, Spyder, GranTurismo, Ghibli, Quattroporte and more!
Full Forum Listing
Explore Our Forums
GranTurismo Coupe, Spyder, GS QP5 2003-2012 Modern Maserati New Member Introductions