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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am planning to buy a QP Duoselect. I have been told to stay away from the '05 due to clutch and electronics, that the '06 got new electronics and a slightly better clutch and shift set-up, and that by '07 the clutch improved further with new throw=out bearing set-up and even better shifting. Can anyone comment on this and either confirm or discredit?

To me, it basically comes down to drivability and clutch life between the models. The '05 has been described as a very lurk-chy (sp?!) and '07 as much better. BTW, I have driven only the '07 model (dueselect and automoatic). I definitely want the duoselect.

What kind of clutch life (on average) could I expect between each of these model years? Also, what is the cost of a new clutch (parts, labor broken out).

Has anyone out there done their own clutch job? I am an ex-mechanic and own a couple of Alfas that I can do anything on. I wonder if I should plan on doing my own maintenance on the Quattroporte. Thoughts?

Thanks!

- Jason H.
Kansas City
 

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As far as I know it is the same clutch in MY '05 - '07. What may be different is the software or programming setup but there should be no reason why an '05 with the most recent software should not drive the same as an '07. Clutch life is average 20K miles.

To properly install a new clutch you need an SD2/SD3 which most shops (unless they specialize in Ferrari / Maserati) will not have.

In general I find the QP easy to work on for most non-engine / transmission related repairs. Parts are expensive and after market replacements can be very difficult to find so you need to factor that in.

Lots of people point to the clutch as the major reapir expense but the tires only last 15-20K and they will also set you back $2K - $3K for a set and brakes / rotors can easily fetch $4K - $6K for both F&R if you go with OEM parts.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks for the response!

I was told that there was no software update for the 2005. Is that BS? I was also specifically told that the '07 had an upgraded TO bearing and that the 06 could be upgraded to 07 set-up (for about $10K) including electronics but that the 05 could not.

I'd really like to drive the 05 and 06, but not sure that will happen before buying one, so really trying to determine if I am going to be an 07 only looker, or if I should be more open minded.

Also, is there a reliable way to ascertain remaining clutch life on the the QPs? Seems I've read something about that...

Thanks,
 

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The duoselect is the weak point in the QP. Its fun when you are in the mood for it but can get really tiresome due to jerkiness when in traffic or in the daily grind (if you use the car as a daily driver). DSG does a much better (smoother) shift job than the DuoSelect / Cambio Corsa.

Ferrari/Maserati have pretty much admitted to the inherent design weaknesses of the single clutch Graziano box in their current line-up by introducing the dual clutch set-up in the California. Hopefully, this dual clutch transmission eventually makes it in to the QP S and GT S and will incorporate seemless upshifts technology (who cares about 60 millisecond shifts when you can do it in Zero? :D).

Getting back to your question, I was just talking to my dealer about a clutch and F1 pump change and was told the differences in the last 3 model years on DuoSelect / Cambio Corsa were limited to software updates and a TO bearing.

Let us know if you find a reliable source for clutch life monitoring. The factory procedure is notoriously un-predicatable / wrong.
 

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I have had the software upgraded on my '05 QP but I don't know to what extent it impacted the clutch if at all.

The point I was trying to make was that I wouldn't worry to much about the costs of the clutch and potential savings going with an '07 unless it is your daily driver and you put a fair amount of miles on it. The other wear items will eat up your budget just as fast regardless of model.

I am happy with the duo on my '05 QP although it took a while for me to get used to it. It squeals a little on starts on an incline which I attribute to the clutch slipping but otherwise shifting is smooth and clean as long as you have the car in manual/sport mode and you shift over 3,000 rpm. There is a finesse to shifting up and down (I downshift at about 2,000 rpm) but it works for me.

As far as replacing the clutch is concerned, there seems to be two opinions. The first is to replace it at 80% or higher wear and save yourself any potential grief, while the second is to drive it until the clutch starts slipping and then get it to the dealer ASAP. I guess the issue with the second is that most dealers require at least a couple of weeks to book an appointment and you may have to flatbed the car to the dealership if you live a fair ways away and don't want to chance getting halfway there with a failed clutch.
 

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I haven't heard of too many pump issues with the QPs, mostly earlier CCs.

In any event, lots of people dislike the duo-select which is why the cars have depreciated so much. Cost vs benefit I guess.
 

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Instead of the year, I would consider which QP model. Reviews have the Sport GT as the best shifting (quickest and least jerky) of the Duo-Select.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ekfy9Bre1sA

However, the Duo-Select won't match the smoothness of the ZF Auto that became available in 2007. This transmission also has available paddles and manual mode. Be sure you really want the F1 system before purchasing. There was a reason QP sales climbed 40% after the introduction of the Automatic.
 

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Can someone share with me your experience after getting the 05 QP software upgraded? Is there some noticeable differences? And what is the cost? I'm about to take my 05 QP in for its 30,000 maintenance and I'd be interested in knowing if there's any possiblibity to get a software upgrade. Thanks!

Marc
 

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2005 Qp

Hello, i bought a 2005 QP a few months back, i live in the Las Vegas area where the weather is brutal. So far, (knocking very hard on wood) no problems with it. My car apparently has had a clutch change and software update before i bought it. Aside from a climbling temp gauge in traffic, the car has been wonderfull. Dont get me wrong, its very jerky, especially if your used to a real manual. However, if you drive it hard, and dont feather the throtle in traffic, and most importantly, are "sympathetic to the cause". you will love it. Keep in mind, it is a dual dry plate, hydrolic clutch system. It is so much better and seemingly smoother and quiter when your really going for it. ITs much more comfortable and predictable to drive when going fast. Just make sure you service the car frequently. This means, engine oil, brake fluid, and gearbox oil as it wears fast due to ferrocity of the transmission shifting. Car runs hot but apparently thats quite normal. I love the car, and have no real conplaints. Oh, and did i mention, i drive it everyday... as in, every single day. This too keeps it running well, Italian cars make really bad garage queens... Clutches are $5000.00 so learn to use the throtle pedal to engage cluch properly.

Good luck! you'l love the car, just remember, its not an S Class, drive it like a track car, and you'l be fine.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Thanks for all the great information guys!

I am definitely going to go with a Duoselect. I did not like the automatic at all. Seemed like an "average" car with the automatic. On the other hand, the Duoselect seemed like the "real-deal".

I have been told by several dealers that there is no software update available/ capability for the 05 and 06. So, I keep hearing different things on this. I had definitely heard of the throw-out bearing update. Does this really make a huge difference? I had heard an electronics change on the Duoselect partway through the 2006 model year and the throw-out bearing change for the 2007 year. Can anyone confirm?

Thanks,

- Jason
 

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I have a fair bit of time behind both transmissions. I would recommend the Duo Select. It's not perfect but the Automatica is not perfect either. It really boils down to whether you're cruising the car ( automatica ) or driving the car (duoselect).

We also have a Drive By Wire Enhancement for the duoselect that works very well. It will certainly help you to improve the clutch engagements. It's a big upgrade on that car and should pay for itself in clutch savings.

Best Regards,
-- Jeff
 

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I have a fair bit of time behind both transmissions. I would recommend the Duo Select. It's not perfect but the Automatica is not perfect either. It really boils down to whether you're cruising the car ( automatica ) or driving the car (duoselect).

We also have a Drive By Wire Enhancement for the duoselect that works very well. It will certainly help you to improve the clutch engagements. It's a big upgrade on that car and should pay for itself in clutch savings.

Best Regards,
-- Jeff
I'm interested in your Drive By Wire Enhancement. I may be giving you a call at some point! :)
 

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Sounds great... we're a forum sponsor and frequent the board daily. In any case, feel free to call and pick our brains, we're here to help.

Best Regards,
-- Jeff
 

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Test drove a 05 QP last weekend which I'm buying and will pick up tomorrow. After about 30 seconds of driving I wondered what all the fuss was about on/in the web/motoring magazines. To me, it makes the car more special with the true paddles , especially with the starting procedure/beeping reverse. I found it it easy to drive, almost like a video game.

I was told by the dealer that everytime your QP is serviced they update the software in the ECU etc to the latest revision.
 

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They normally will do this, however just like any other business, it's based on available time.

Because of this reason, if you plan on upgrading your ECU to produce more power, our solution is a better choice as we do not reflash the factory programming which would be overwritten during a service. Our approach is to add our ECM which works with the Factory ECU so even if the factory programming is updated by the dealer, you'll still get the performance advantage without having to reflash your ECU again.
 

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They normally will do this, however just like any other business, it's based on available time.

Because of this reason, if you plan on upgrading your ECU to produce more power, our solution is a better choice as we do not reflash the factory programming which would be overwritten during a service. Our approach is to add our ECM which works with the Factory ECU so even if the factory programming is updated by the dealer, you'll still get the performance advantage without having to reflash your ECU again.
Can your black box be fitted by the end user or is it a dealer only fit?
 

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Many customers do install them at home. It requires basic electrical knowledge and attention to detail. i.e. crimping, soldering, etc... Typical install times are 1-2 hours depending on skill.

I recommend that a shop performs the work if you're not sure. However we're here for support and can walk you through any problems. We have many authorized installers and can also help you choose your own shop by interviewing them.

Give us a call if you have specific questions and we'll get you up to speed on the job to help you decide.
 

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I recommend that a shop performs the work if you're not sure. However we're here for support and can walk you through any problems. We have many authorized installers and can also help you choose your own shop by interviewing them.
Jeff, slightly off topic, but do you guys do installations at your shop? Might be an excuse to make a run out to Vegas some time. I'm always looking for a good excuse to head out there :D
 
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