[dogdoc]

I just got off the phone with my buddy and it ended in an arguement; he is part owner in a tuner shop and claims that with the proper flashing of an ECU with this German software they have they can take anycar up to whatever you want the HP to be...my statement is that I don't care if you take this Coupe to 500Hp...its all AT THE FLYWHEEL if it does not convert to torque and then to the GROUND!!!! He says not true; in addition, I said you would need to switch out exhaust systems, etc, He claims they have done this on two different Porsches, rated at 390 and took one to 530 and the other one left alone; and it was night and day; his comment about Formula Dynamics and Eurotek was that at 25-30 hp we won't notice any difference, why waste your money; he says they have dyno runs to prove the increase transfers to the wheels, I say B.S., this car cannot go from 390 to say 500 with an ECU flash, Am I right or wrong; won't hurt my feelings guys.........dogdoc

 

[fade2grey]

caveat: I'm no expert..

well yes & no you can get more power out by putting more air & fuel in & extracting the gasses efficiently. Depending on the engine design, that may be easy or not so... eg turbo cars can generally be 'chipped' by quite a lot - 60bhp or more is fairly usual. Generally because they can alter the volumetric efficiency of the engine by modifying boost levels etc. For normally aspirated motors it's more complicated & you only have machining tolerances, fuel gradingetc to work with - or you start changing parts, exhaust, cams, head work etc. Many of the gains are found by reducing the 'safety margins' in the fuel\timing maps which are there because throughout the world there are lots of varying qualities of fuel.

One of the key things to consider whether you'll feel it or not is the shape of the power & torque curves. 25bhp at the top end will be hard to feel but 25bhp at just the right spot for where you normally drive the car (eg 2-3k or 3.5-5k ) may well be more noticable.. the same goes for removing flat spots.

At the end of the day, it's torque that turns the wheels not bhp, BHP is good for turning heads though .. flywheel figures are lovely but for me it's got to be at the wheels. Another thing to consider is comparing apples for apples.. one rolling road is NOT the same as the next.. even on the same rolling road, ambient temps, tyre pressures, how tight the car is ratcheted down etc all have an effect - they could easily mask or make 25bhp.

well that's my 2p.. let battle commence

 

[MaseratiBoy]

You're 100% right.

I dont know what your buddy is smoking, but stuff seems shady. You cannot use an ECU to take it "wherever you want". All an ecu can do is switch the fuel air ratio, etc.

 

[Fastfreddy]

It kind of leaves you wondering why the folks at Maserati didn't find somebody who knew this. Seriously, you aren't going to get an extra 110 HP by flashing a chip and have something that's driveable. It's all in working out the compromises. Yeah, you can shoot for a peak HP and get some big numbers over a very narrow RPM range, but nobody would want to drive it. You are going to trade off HP against torque when you go too far.

To get more power from an engine, it has to breathe better. You are right that exhaust (and intake) are critical. You can't just fiddle with timing and injectors (chip) and work miracles.

As for flywheel power vs rear wheel power, that's a function of drag in the drivetrain.

 

[GrndLkNatv]

Your buddy needs to find his ...

Back in my previous life, how I put myself through college, I was a marine master mechanic for a little group called the Gentry (Bernie) /Mercruiser racing team who built race boats so I know a little bit, but have forgotten most of it.

Engine timing and fuel injection timing/amounts are the things that the ECU affects while the TCU takes care of shift points, etc., in the transmission.

In order to make massive more horsepower you need more fuel and air. The engine needs to breathe better which means better intake, better exhaust, better camshafts (without cams all the exhaust and intake enhancement is very limited and why the ECU reflash is limited to what it can provide) better compression ratio and then the hopes that the crank, rods and pistons will tolerate it as well as the heads and block... Thats why Chevrolet two bolt main blocks get drilled and capped for 4 bolt mains, to give the block more rigidity and to help keep the crankshaft from being able to flex or break.

People use forged rods and/or forged aluminum rods and forged pistons and that is why some Maserati's put out a puff of blue smoke when you first start them as forged pistons expand more than cast pistons and therefore have more tolerance in the cylinder as they expand more when they get hot. Cast pistons are usually fitted with .003 to .004 thousands clearance while forged are fitted with .005 to .008 clearance.

This is all in the case of a normally aspirated motor. Bolting a supercharger or turbo on is easier but the main components of the engine need to handle the additional stress added by the pressure, either way you are looking at much faster wear on the engine.

The major difference between our 4200cc engine and the 510hp 4300cc F430 engine is the heads, valves, camshafts, intake, exhaust, compression ratio and the ECU. If you want that kind of horsepower, it's a bolt on operation if you want to buy the parts. The difference in the engine size is in the stroke and not the bore from what I remember.

The guys at formula dynamics have mapped everything that is possible so if they are not getting it, chances are others are not as well.

 

[FormulaDynamics]

A Chip isn't magic, it can't get whatever you want out of the car. We get everthing that's safe to get from the car. If there was a magic chip I could sell to get the Maserati to 500HP, I would have a long line of customers.

Turbo Porsches can make quite a bit of HP through a chip, that's not a lie. They increase the boost by spinning the turbo faster and pushing more air into the engine, then they tune that the same way we do. Fuel, Timing, etc. This will decrease the life of the components and is why Porsche doesn't release the car in this form and voids your warranty if you do it. With that said, they're great to drive and do still last alright if done properly.

Another instance of where this can be done is Diesel engines, big gains in torque are possible through diesel chips. However these are the only two scenarios where you will get huge gains through a chip.

For the Maserati there are few options to get more power, it was designed well, so the chip is a good choice.

 

[dogdoc]

THNX GUYS! I am not as STUPID as my buddy thinks!

Now, my brother has a 993 twin turbo; and as he says this motor is in fact the one that was in the race performance cars; so IT IS CAPABLE of handling more HP as one of you mentioned but is detuned at the factory; I can see this motor as my brother explained getting substantial gains because the engine has the capability; now is the 4200 detuned; I am sure it is to a point but not that much I wouldn't think; and what about engine life; someone told me that if you set the mapping etc, as one of you also mentioned you will wear components out...so is the Formula Dynamics chip "safe" for our cars...thnx guys; I say its all in the torque for me becuase I do not drive above 120MPH seriously how often can you really get the top end; I want it in the low to midrange passing gears for me on the interstate! dogdoc

 

[MaseratiBoy]

The FD chip is safe in terms of engine and clutch wear :]

 

[FormulaDynamics]

Yes, our chip is safe for the Maserati and will not wear components out prematurely. It has no significant effect on clutch, transmission or engine wear.

My comments regarding wearing components out were directly relating to the practice of increasing the boost on turbo or super charged cars. This does not apply to the maserati as it is normally aspirated.

 

[maseratikai]

So where are the folks on this forum, who have purchased your ECU, coming out in support of the FD ECU?
I have not seen any state their satisfaction, as I have for the springs, which indeed have made my GS much better in the corners.

 

[FormulaDynamics]

Greetings Kai,

As always a fair man, but a tough customer

Here is a statement from one of our recent customers that I asked to provide a statement of his experience for another member on the forum who was considering the ECU purchase and wanted a customer opinion. I was copied on the email and so I'll provide the relevant text :

"In my search for an ecu reprogram I looked at every supplier I could find. What became evident was that not only were many “claims” inflated, but many of the so called tuners re-flashed the stock computer with what they generally thought would make improvements based on their experience with other cars. Jeff impressed me with his hands on knowledge of our cars and knew what would work. Additionally, I liked the idea of leaving the stock computer alone and adding a separate one. I have had experience with this on some of my other vehicles with good results. This also helped with warranty issues should they arise. I call tell you without hesitation that not only am I very pleased with the results on the formula dynamics product, but their service has been second to none. After my initial purchase, Jeff sent me an e-mail saying he had found some new “tweaks” to the temperature variance tables in the stock ecu and if I wanted to send in my “piggy back” he would upgrade it free of charge. How many companies would do that? As far as performance goes, I can tell you I have removed the “FD” computer several times and done and back to back to comparison. There is without question a significant difference in terms of throttle response and how hard the car pulls. I could not be more pleased over-all. The “FD” ecu made the most significant difference to the cars performance vs. any of the other mods. "

I try not to bother my customers too much for product testimonials but I'm sure I could connect some people if needed. Keep in mind that some customers may prefer not to publicly disclose that they have an ECU mod for warranty purposes however privately they may be able to share their experience.