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You came for free advice and so I don’t think you should expect any level of service beyond free. He thinks whatever you’re trying is a bad idea and that’s his opinion and it’s reasonable to allow him to express that. I think you need to find someone who thinks it’s a good idea to help you out.

And if it bothers you so much I suggest to just click his name and click Ignore. You won’t need to look at his replies then. You’ll miss out on a lot of helpful information and advice in other threads though....





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Discussion Starter #42
As it is reasonable for me to call him out on being condescending. His post history shows that he just likes to show up and cut people down, I think its fair to call him out on being less than useless.
 

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Gents, we are all men here (sorry if there are any women), let’s put the negativity behind us, and get back to contributing what we can, when we can, for the love of our passion.
 

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People have different ways of making their points and modes of speech. Jason is one of the main technical resources here, and (in my view) understandably gets somewhat frustrated with some of the seekers after knowledge.

It all cuts both ways, so if we can move on, that will be super.

C
 

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What was this thread about?
Oh yeah, using transmission software for a completely different car with a different engine and transmission so that throttle interaction would be better, right? I really think the best way to get Challenge Stradale shifting is to start with a 360. I can assure you that the FD DBWEM is not just some adapted TCU software. Even if you can rewrite the file so that it would work in the car, you still won't be getting what you want.
 

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Throttle response for one. Although I have the F1, there are members that have reported much improved driveability with the DBW on 6mt cars. With the F1, you get that plus much better interface with the robotics. It's not just that it's faster, but more responsive with different conditions. You wouldn't really want hard hitting changes in a parking lot, but you do want it controllable. The DBW improves that IMHO.
 

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Geez...
I'm just glad both of you guys are here...You know, computer programmer guys...I do have a question... I may not know a lot, but why would you guys think you can just jump on automotive forum and any of the people would know about anything you are talking about?.. Bin files etc..? That doesn't seem very smart at all.. Here is what I do know...Stuff like this ends up going nowhere...Jason
Not sure if you are trying to make a joke, or trying to be a jerk or what to be honest.

This is an Enthusiast/Owners website that also offers a basic Q&A for technical issues.

But to answer your question, why would a master mechanic jump on a website online and expect anyone to know anything about what you are talking about? My reason? I own a Maserati that has dozens of computer hardware and programming that people like me, help people like you, figure out whats wrong with a car. Not everything is mechanical.
 

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If you have a GS, it's a whole lot easier to revert back to the original CFC201 SW of the original Cambiocorsa. Most of them have been updated and the 12XXX+ assemblies (all GS cars) have the newer 321 SW. The 201 SW was extremely fast and hard shifting and was used in the MC12.

Not quite sure why people are toying with the 360 SW anyway. You'd be better off trying to swap with a 599 as the F1 systems are much more similar to that of the GS, so the parameters will at least be much closer to spec.
 

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Discussion Starter #51
If you have a GS, it's a whole lot easier to revert back to the original CFC201 SW of the original Cambiocorsa. Most of them have been updated and the 12XXX+ assemblies (all GS cars) have the newer 321 SW. The 201 SW was extremely fast and hard shifting and was used in the MC12.

Not quite sure why people are toying with the 360 SW anyway. You'd be better off trying to swap with a 599 as the F1 systems are much more similar to that of the GS, so the parameters will at least be much closer to spec.
Please, continue to enlighten me oh great one!

So I have a GS, so I guess the natural question would be how do I change the software version?

I'm assuming that a dealership will have some plug-in procedure, but I've no knowledge of it. And if they do, are the software versions easily available?

I suppose the next question would be why they changed the software version in the first place? I have seen that the original clutches were less robust, so I suppose that it could have been to protect reliability, and I also suppose customer complaints on comfort would be a factor as well.

Cheers
 

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When the 4200 was launched in US, they gave it the original code of the 201 software. It was virtually the same as the MC12, which shares the platform with the Ferrari Enzo. As much as many of us would prefer that now (at this point most owners are "enthusiasts" of some sort), it was a hard shifting version. It shifted more like a Ferrari, which the people trading in their SL didn't like. So much to the point where Maserati got lots of complaints and demands for repairs. So, they offered an update, I believe in late 2002 or 2003, to update all the legacy cars to a smoother shifting version of the 201 SW. Most of the 2002s on the road have had that update and, according to Maserati, there's no turning back. I just sold a 2002 with the update and I HATED IT! From what I understand, the code for the original spec 201 SW is no longer available on MODIS, but I don't know if that's a fact, nor do I know if anyone ever bootlegged it or stored it somehow. It may have been an update that "replaced" the old code. It sounds believable.

The GS cars have the newer 321 software, which I suspect, has improvements but I'm not sure how it compares in feel to the original spec 201. If you compare, however, the shifting of the early 360s with the later GS, I can only suspect that you'd love the original 201, especially because the swap would be much easier as your shift points, torque curves, etc. are a much closer match.

It would be best to find a older 2002 MY car that was wrecked at an early age to pull a TCU to start with, but that is a needle in a haystack.
 

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Discussion Starter #53
Well I'll ask around for a TCU, but you're right it will be hard to find. Even if a wrecker has a car that is the right year I suspect that unless the original owner skipped servicing for a few years it is unlikely it wasn't updated. If someone has one of those available and would be willing to either send it to me or do some tinkering themselves I would be able to pull the data off the chip or talk them through the process. What to do with a raw HEX file after that would probably require some help from some more knowledgeable people than me but I'm sure I can find someone!

I'm assuming MODIS is the internal update system? If so I guess I can ask the certified Ferrari shop that is near me to look into it. It seems like the sort of thing that an experienced Ferrari tech should know the answer to...
 

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Yeah, I'm not even sure if there's a way to tell which firmware version exists on any given TCU. I'm sure there is but that is way above my pay grade.

Yes, MODIS is the information portal for Maserati/Ferrari. The dealers have access to it via a login and it stores employee data, CRM info, and all manufacturer-distributed material (training, TSBs, recalls, etc.) and from what I understand, all the coding/firmware updates, etc. It's basically the Ferrari/Maserati's version of Mercedes' NetStar.

There is a portal of all firmware downloads provided by MODIS that allows access to the code, but it has with it a term fee, the shortest being (I think) $250 per day and it's accessible through the SD units, not a standard J2534 connection. Again, this is what I remember from going over this with friends who went through the academy, but I may be off a bit.

Not this this applies, but my friend in West Palm is one of the better F1 guys I've met and he's restored a few TCUs in his day (including mine) and from what he says, the TCU can't be "flashed." You literally need to know coding to do it as with mine, he had to recognize which parts of the coding were missing/corrupt to repair the TCU through the MODIS download. Not a whole lot of people know how to do it.

Outside of the dealership, Maseratis are especially difficult because or their limited market. In the case of Ferrari and Lambo, there is a huge aftermarket following on the cars. Maserati owners don't typically carry with them the budget of Ferrari or Lambo owners so little has been done in terms of ways to customize ECUs and offer other complex performance options.
 

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Oh, and by the way, my TCU coding went corrupt when someone tried to program my clutch using an aftermarket tool. Lessons learned.
 

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For record TCUs can be flashed, had my 01 360 spider TVU updated to CS spec by a genuine real rocket scientist in France from Ferrarichat( forgot his name) the difference was incredible, I have a 05 90th anniversary,very late software, it is a dog compared to what CS shifting is like..would love if there was a confirmed solution...

It would be great if we could get the same shift performance on the 4200 set up.. reluctant to fork out for the DBW update for fear of disappointment... unless someone on here has a genuine experience of comparing both CS and DBW?
 

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For record TCUs can be flashed, had my 01 360 spider TVU updated to CS spec by a genuine real rocket scientist in France from Ferrarichat( forgot his name) the difference was incredible, I have a 05 90th anniversary,very late software, it is a dog compared to what CS shifting is like..would love if there was a confirmed solution...

It would be great if we could get the same shift performance on the 4200 set up.. reluctant to fork out for the DBW update for fear of disappointment... unless someone on here has a genuine experience of comparing both CS and DBW?
Yes, the code is readily available for the F cars because a lot of aftermarket components require it. But for the Maseratis, it's a little hard to come by. I'm sure a good tuner will be able to do it, but like I said, it's an uncommon request so finding that person is like looking for a needle in a haystack.
 

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Discussion Starter #58
I've started chasing up some guys who enjoy a bit of hacking to see if we can reverse engineer the code on the TCU. If someone knows anyone who would have a copy of the dumped memory please let me know. Having more copies of different versions will help in identifying what the raw data is supposed to look like to see if we can make sense of it.
 

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Discussion Starter #59
It turns out that it is 100% possible to flash whatever TCU software you want onto your TCU. Whether or not that is a good idea is a different question and needs a bit more following up.

You can find the process on how to bench flash the firmware here.


The user eric355 is the guy who has been doing the firmware flash for the F360 guys.

With the help of a few other people we've got the bin files from a few different software versions, so now we're trying to decrypt them so that we're not reading nonsense. This is what the raw data looks like when you try to read it in plain text:

129321


The process of turning that into readable data involves mapping headers to memory allocations on the chip based off the data sheet. Once its completed successfully the data will turn into a series of data tables just like an ECU. From that, using the data sheet and the TCU pinout it will become possible to determine what tables are controlling what elements. With different software versions you can determine what changed between updates, so you can start to see what the engineering design envelope originally was.

The end result if I'm successful would be fully custom TCU maps.

I haven't had a chance to follow up about the MODIS software versions at the dealership, but if it is true that a car like the MC12 was running the the same software as the 4200 was that would tell me a lot about how the software was developed. I've spoken to a tuner who has mapped most of the ECU tables including a bunch to do with the torque requests and it does sound like the software is a generic 'one size fits all', in that the differences in engine parameters are handled directly by the ECU and communicated to the TCU. If I can validate that, that would mean any TCU would work with any ECU because of dedicated communication between the two. It also makes more sense that it would operate that way as I've never met an engineer who reinvents the wheel whenever they have a new application. It is much cheaper and more reliable to create plug and play solutions that communicate via an API.

If you want to understand the process a bit further The Car Hacker’s Handbook
 

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So that link is to flash an ignition ecu.
This one talks about the tcu.

Its so easy... all that is required is that you need to be a hacker, have the code from a faster shifting tcu, resoldering chips, flashing those chips, then access to a sd2/3 to change all the f1 parameters... then when your display doesn't work, hook up your sd2 and follow these procedures.

"You have to make sure they do it in sequence as follows:
1. Plug in an SD2, and on the parameter page, read the "new closed clutch position" and note it down.
2. switch off the battery (obvious, i know, but you'll be suprised the amount of times i've seen e.c.u's destroyed if this isn't done!)
3. Swap it out for the new t.c.u
4. switch on the battery, switch on the ignition and leave for thirty seconds.
5. plug in the SD2. On the diagnosis page, write the original closed clutch position figure into it.
6. Set P.I.S. to around 4.7 to begin with.( this can be played with later to suit)
7. Now on the diagnosis section of SD2, a FULL cycle test has to be carried out.
8. Next, under diagnosis section, carry out a self-learn. At this stage, you will probably still see a blank screen.
9. Switch off the Sd2 and then the ignition. Leave it for thirty seconds, then switch the ignition back on and manually run up and down the gears.
By this time you should see your display working and gears should all be selecting as they should. If it's all o.k they just need to fiddle about getting the P.I.S setting right until the change is quick."

So yes anything is possible but this stuff is not plug and play. And you best be experimenting on your own car unless you want to be responsible for some glitch that turns someones car into a paperweight that no shop will touch because of the hacked hardware and software.

Good luck. Anything is possible.
 
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