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Discussion Starter #1
So google finds me lots of old thread where people discuss swapping the TCU from the F360, or flashing the F360 software onto the existing TCU. There is usually a lot of arguing about how the 4200 and GS are different, someone usually talks about how they should just buy a F360 instead of being poor, then something about production numbers, how the alignment of Jupiter and the conjunction with Venus affect the gear box internals and eventually the original question never gets answered.

It has been a good decade since people started asking these questions - surely someone has an answer by now!

Can the TCU be swapped from an F360 to a GS/4200, do you even need to go that far and can you just flash the software?

Considering the TCU for the GS/4200 and F360 are super easy to find more than a decade after these cars hit the shelf, if someone with the technical know how to tell me if its even possible, I might just give it a crack.
 
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That sounds like some good old fashioned internet bullshit...How you flash a ECU from a another make of car to another is beyond me...Also modules just don't flash like a Windows update as stuff can just go wrong and make them a paper weight...Why would someone want to take a TCU out another car and put it in a 4200? So you can say it has a Ferrari gearbox ECU? The gearbox ECU in the car goes with the car....I fail to see any logic in it...Didn't you just PM me and say you need a new transmission, but now you are now asking about an TCU swap?...What you have going on is a hot mess it sounds like.....Jason
 

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Discussion Starter #3
The transmission in my car will be coming out in the new year and going to the tip. It isn't cost effective to explore what is wrong with it as opposed to swap out. It has a knock in it when changing gear and will let go eventually. All the ancillaries work fine though. All I can find about differences between the 4200/GS and some early QP transmissions is references that the gear ratios might be different but no one ever seems to know for sure. The rest of the car seems fine with the exception of some cosmetic issues. I'm preparing the pull the interior out and detail it but I try to understand as much about any project as I can before I start. Mechanical Issues>Performance Parts> Interior Detailing>Engine Bay Detailing>Exterior Detailing is the usual process. Anyway, that is a different issue.

The goal of the TCU swap would be to achieve the same things as the DBW. I know plenty of the F360 guys swap to the CS TCU as an upgrade - and I've seen one post of someone claiming that they did it with a GS but haven't been able to get a response for any real details. I came across it a while ago when looking into the DBW but never got a clear answer.

So far as I can tell the hardware for the TCU is the same across the 360 and 4200/GS, so it could literally be software versions as the only required change. Without tearing them down though I can't know that for sure and that's where forums can help.

I'm not really that concerned about making paperweights, the TCUs are all over the internet now, so if there is enough information to justify trying I'll get a couple and see what happens.The more I know before I start the better the chance of a desirable result.

It is a measure twice cut once sort of thing.
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
Man it must be hard to stand tall enough to look down on everyone with the weight of that chip on your shoulder.

**This was in response to a comment that was removed.
 
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Just talking facts Sir..So far you asked several questions on here and then proceeded to answer most of the post yourself...and I'm gonna keep letting you do that.....J
 

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Man it must be hard to stand tall enough to look down on everyone with the weight of that chip on your shoulder.
That chip on his shoulder is made of three decades of exotic car mechanical expertise, the immeasurable kindness of him to share that with our community, and the unimaginable committment required to, for free may I add, answer technical questions within the hour, on Christmas [email protected]$#%$G Day... may I suggest starting with what you'd hope to accomplish, rather than "will this work?"
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
That sounds like some good old fashioned internet bullshit...How you flash a ECU from a another make of car to another is beyond me...Also modules just don't flash like a Windows update as stuff can just go wrong and make them a paper weight...Why would someone want to take a TCU out another car and put it in a 4200? So you can say it has a Ferrari gearbox ECU? The gearbox ECU in the car goes with the car....I fail to see any logic in it...Didn't you just PM me and say you need a new transmission, but now you are now asking about an TCU swap?...What you have going on is a hot mess it sounds like.....Jason

You asked several questions here so I provided clarification. I've answered none of the questions I asked. I know this may be a difficult concept, but if I had been able to find the answer to my question, I wouldn't have posted the question specifically stating that I hadn't been able to find the answers to those questions.

A TCU swap is not the same as a DBW in the least...You'll figure out all this out via an internet search..Jason
I mean it is nice that you edited your comment, but I think its only fair that people saw what you actually said and what I actually responded to. Unfortunately you did manage to edit it before I got a screenshot but its nice to know you reconsidered how what you said looked even if you didn't actually think it was worth apologising for saying.

That chip on his shoulder is made of three decades of exotic car mechanical expertise, the immeasurable kindness of him to share that with our community, and the unimaginable committment required to, for free may I add, answer technical questions within the hour, on Christmas [email protected]$#%$G Day... may I suggest starting with what you'd hope to accomplish, rather than "will this work?"
So far he hasn't provided any response of value, so technically yes, having no kindness is immeasurable.

As stated previously - The goal of the TCU swap would be to achieve the same things as the DBW.

The DBW costs ~$1200USD, or a F360 TCU costs ~$200
 

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You asked several questions here so I provided clarification. I've answered none of the questions I asked. I know this may be a difficult concept, but if I had been able to find the answer to my question, I wouldn't have posted the question specifically stating that I hadn't been able to find the answers to those questions.



I mean it is nice that you edited your comment, but I think its only fair that people saw what you actually said and what I actually responded to.

View attachment 128900



So far he hasn't provided any response of value, so technically yes, having no kindness is immeasurable.

As stated previously - The goal of the TCU swap would be to achieve the same things as the DBW.

The DBW costs ~$1200USD, or a F360 TCU costs ~$200
Do you know how the DBW works?
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Do you know how the DBW works?
I'm under the impression that it spoofs the RPM to the TCU so that the sharper shift changes that are programmed by default for higher RPM are accessible earlier. I'm also under the impression that it spoofs gear data back to the system to allow the throttle to open 100% in lower gears. So no, I don't know the specifics of how it works but I have a general idea of what it would probably be doing based on working with other cars that operate with a drive-by-wire system.

I was hoping that someone who actually knows would chime in and be able to explain why it is or isn't a good idea, why one is better than the other etc.
 

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I doubt anyone one here has firsthand knowledge of this tcu swap working. Go ahead and try it anyway then report back. That way you can confirm to others that it is internet bs.
 

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How about you try it and tell us if the interaction with a different engine and body module in a car with wholly different characteristics works...
 

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I'm under the impression that it spoofs the RPM to the TCU so that the sharper shift changes that are programmed by default for higher RPM are accessible earlier. I'm also under the impression that it spoofs gear data back to the system to allow the throttle to open 100% in lower gears. So no, I don't know the specifics of how it works but I have a general idea of what it would probably be doing based on working with other cars that operate with a drive-by-wire system.

I was hoping that someone who actually knows would chime in and be able to explain why it is or isn't a good idea, why one is better than the other etc.
No. It modifies the throttle position signal that the TCU sees, in order to make the TCU use a more aggressive part of the map at any throttle position. It has nothing to do with the TCU itself, and for what it's worth to your research efforts, the same product is available for the F360, and is definitely needed as in stock form the shift logic is just as bad as Cambiocorsa, especially earlier models.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
How about you try it and tell us if the interaction with a different engine and body module in a car with wholly different characteristics works...
I mean if no one knows the answer I might.


No. It modifies the throttle position signal that the TCU sees, in order to make the TCU use a more aggressive part of the map at any throttle position. It has nothing to do with the TCU itself, and for what it's worth to your research efforts, the same product is available for the F360, and is definitely needed as in stock form the shift logic is just as bad as Cambiocorsa, especially earlier models.
Man with all the salt this thread was mining I didn't think anyone would say anything useful, so thank you.

Right so it spoofs the TPS signal instead of the RPM; surely it would need the RPM signal as well though as WOT at 3000RPM and WOT at 7000RPM would have very different shifting characteristics? I'm pretty familiar with the process on a bunch of BMWs - and they usually prevent the throttle opening 100% in the first few gears even with TCS off, so sometimes spoof the gear back to the ECU to allow WOT to happen in lower gears. Those transmissions are ZF though and the biggest issue I've had swapping those is VIN interlocks rather than functionality. Anyway, do you know if these cars prevent WOT in lower gears and if so what the DBW does (if anything) that affects that?

From what I've seen the TCU used in the M138 was always a newer hardware revision than the F360, but the post 2002 F360 seems to move onto the same revision, but I haven't been able to find all the part numbers to confirm( Magneti Marelli supplier parts). So far my impression is that unless there is a VIN interlock, the part can probably be swapped and will work to some extent (even if poorly). I mean, if I really wanted to know I'd have to get it powered up on a bench with an oscilloscope and crack it open and pull up datasheets on what chips they used, but that very quickly stops being fun and just becomes a chore and costs balloon to the point of not being justifiable. It also depends on how the control of the transmission was implemented and on what sensors.
 
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Yeah, you are probably a little over all our heads...I would get back to checking software versions, hooking up scopes, cracking data sheets etc..Sounds like a big pile of poop you are talking honestly..." From what I have seen"....shouldn't that say from what I have Googled???? Your experience revolves one Maserati it sounds like...I would just try to get the car to drive and start there....Regards, Jason
 

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Discussion Starter #16
If this makes you so salty, why even respond?

I'm sure with the 30 years of experience you've got you could contribute something useful if you wanted to, but instead you just choose to be rude and dismissive. You come across like the kind of guy who tells people they need to spend $20k on an engine rebuild to stop the brakes wearing out early and respond with 'what would you know' if they question it.
 

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Have a read here, it has been done apparently in the UK.

From reading in the below link the 360 stradale settings / flash increases the pump pressure to operate the box and clutch slightly faster.... don't know how accurate that is mind.

 
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If this makes you so salty, why even respond?

I'm sure with the 30 years of experience you've got you could contribute something useful if you wanted to, but instead you just choose to be rude and dismissive. You come across like the kind of guy who tells people they need to spend $20k on an engine rebuild to stop the brakes wearing out early and respond with 'what would you know' if they question it.
Oh man, I'm not really participating in anything negative on here..I'm sorry I wasn't able to help you with your issue.....Regards...Jason
 

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Have a read here, it has been done apparently in the UK.

From reading in the below link the 360 stradale settings / flash increases the pump pressure to operate the box and clutch slightly faster.... don't know how accurate that is mind.

I seriously wonder whether or not the juice is worth the squeeze, running 15 year old hydraulic systems made of nearly priceless components overpressure to achieve a *possibly faster shift? Naa. Haha
 

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I seriously wonder whether or not the juice is worth the squeeze, running 15 year old hydraulic systems made of nearly priceless components overpressure to achieve a *possibly faster shift? Naa. Haha
I agree, if the clutch and gearbox are set up well and working correctly leave well alone!
 
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