[moosety2008]

So I'm now totaly confused! Has maserati/the massess settled on which oil to go for? My car has AGIP stickers all over the place (2005 spyder) yet, after searching this forum, I find "Shell Helix Ultra" and "Mobile 1"

So which is it? please help. I'm looking online to order some oil and take the car to an independant to have fluid service done. I was set on going all out on AGIP for the transmission, break, and engine oil, but after doing a search I find the above mentioned alternatives, so rather than confuse myself any furthre, I thought I'd revist (open the can of worms again) this topic

Thanks all for you patience!

-Tony

 

[dogdoc]

Everyone has an opinion

Many have changed based on previous experience; the majority of wear on an engine is at startup; with that said many go to an oil that is not too thick but has added protective properties like many of the synthetics; I just changed my oil with Mobil 1 0W40, many others have used this as well; the dealer tells me they are using SHell Helix, and Formula Dynamics Jeff says they have E something which I think is Quaker States top oil in Europe...........wait on some more replies, you will get many answers. good luck, dogdoc

 

[flashgordon]

My guy Ellory (ZR Auto in Calgary) says to go thicker. He installed Motul 20W50 full synthetic racing oil in my 04 Spyder and says that this is his standard product for all high performance italian motors (Lambo, Ferrari and Maser). I checked Motul's web site and this is the product used for F1 applications! I am a bit concerned that it it is WAY thicker than than the specified 5W30 though.

 

[shed17]

I have been recommended to use Millar oils As long as it is a quality synthetic oil of the right viscosity etc I think you will be all right.

There was a guy from Opie Oils, Simon, who posts on some of the Porsche forums who has given very technical advice as to what to look out for when choosing your oil.

Will try and find a link.

 

[Bcube]

Shell Helix is now the approved oils for Ferrari/Maserati. You have seen all those Shell stickers on the Ferrari F1 cars, right?

Shell Lubricants owns Pennzoil and Quaker State. so there is a Q 5w-40 Euro blend that is recommended by Ferrari for North America. However, you won't get this off the shelf at Wal-Mart.

FD says they have Q Euro in stock - I would get it from them rather than pay the premium from the dealer.

Another choice (and some dealers use) is Mobil 1 0w-40.

Also, Castrol makes a Euro blend (bottle says Made in Germany) which is a 5w-30. This oil is actually closer to a 5w-40 blend, it is known as a "heavy" 30. It is sometimes abbreviated as GC (German Castrol). It can be found at Kragen and Autozone.

Another oil that is compatible is a version of Valvoline 5w-40 which also meets all the European standards.(and has been blessed by most of the European carmakers)

Note that all the oils mentioned are "-40s". (With the exception of GC - which I already mentioned is a "heavy 30"). IMO, do not go any lighter on this number, as standard "-30" breaks down to "-20" fairly quickly with heat. They are fairly thin oils and were designed for car manufacturers to give primarily good fuel economy. If you go this thin, change oil more often.

With regard to the lower number, IMO stick with 5w or 0w. Engines wear the most at startup. You want lubricant flow as soon as possible.

All lubricants discussed above are full synthetics

 

[Bcube]

My guy Ellory (ZR Auto in Calgary) says to go thicker. He installed Motul 20W50 full synthetic racing oil in my 04 Spyder and says that this is his standard product for all high performance italian motors (Lambo, Ferrari and Maser). I checked Motul's web site and this is the product used for F1 applications! I am a bit concerned that it it is WAY thicker than than the specified 5W30 though.

I don't know anything about this oil, but going by the numbers alone, the lower number is way too thick. And for snow country - 20w-50 is going to flow like molasses until the engine temp comes up.

I need to double check this, but I think Ferrari and BMW recommend 10w-60 for their higher performance engines, for example the Enzo and "M" cars.

Bcube's general rule of thumb wrt racing products - racing products for actual race cars usually do not meet the specs, performance, or longevity needed for the street.
Super stopping racing brake pads will never heat up enough to be effective on the street.
Super sticky racing tires go off after a few heat cycles, they will feel like the Flintstone's rock-mobile. They don't warm up enough for the street and tread design/depth wasn't meant to handle the dust, dirt, rain, and other crap found of street roads.
Super formula racing oils probably don't have the correct quantity of detergent needed for a street engine. Sludge build up is your engine's enemy for longevity. Racing engines have oil changes after every race and are rebuilt multiple times during a season.

 

[FormulaDynamics]

Quaker State Q European is the *new* official oil of Ferrari / Maserati. I've confirmed this with Ferrari / Maserati and QuakerState blasts it all over their site. It's very hard to get, few places have it in stock. We carry it as a convienance for our customers. It's easy to just call, order and have it shipped to your house or independant dealer. We also have factory filters in stock for the 4200 and QP models. The oil is a 5W-40 Fully Synthetic. If you're in warranty and plan on changing your own oil, I strongly recommend using the suggested oil to avoid any complications with your warranty. It just helps eliminates hassles. Of course other oils should also work well, however saving a few bucks a quart really isn't worth it in my opinion.

 

[Vincent Eng]

If you're in warranty and plan on changing your own oil, I strongly recommend using the suggested oil to avoid any complications with your warranty.

To clarify, at least in the US, using a different brand oil will not in anyway void your warranty under the Magnusom Moss Act, which protects consumers from manufacturers and dealers who insist factory parts and service must be used in order to maintain your factory warranty. I posted the relevant information at: http://www.maseratilife.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3714

The only way your warranty would be void in the instant case is if you used a non-specified manufacturer weight and the failure could be directly traced back to your decision. You do, however, have to keep your receipts if you do not get your oil serviced at the dealership while it is under factory warranty. A good example Magnusom Moss protection on aftermarket parts is using the Formula Dynamics brake pads, springs, etc. Using those parts will not void your warranty unless a fault occurs as a direct result of those parts. A classic example where the Act didn't protect the consumer was with the early chipped BMWs. People would chip their US specified BMW and not remove the cats while under warranty. The cats would overheat and fail as a direct result of the reprogrammed ECU. Interestingly, BMW eventually responded by offering factory Dinan chipped vehicles.

Many oil manufacturers, e.g. Mobil, provide an additional warranty for those who are skeptical about Federal law protections. Now I wouldn't recommend that you use generic brand X; however, in theory if it meets the industry certification levels, it will provide the level of protection that's advertised. I use Mobil 1.

 

[drevil]

5w40 Quaker State is great !!

5w40 European Quaker State is great!!! I have used it in over 10,000 cars over 5 years without an issue. If you have an engine problem, you will have less resistance from Maserati. 0w30 oils are not as "strong" as 5w40 oils. They are more for CAFE/EPA fuel benefits and are used as OEM fills in Hybrids A.K.A "THOSE LUCHBOXES ON WHEELS"!!.
If you want the "BEST" oil at any price!!! Go with RED LINE 5w40. They use only Group IV (polyol ester basestocks used for jet turbines). Other than the Nanolubes that ELF makes at a cost of $100 plus a quart!!!(only good for racing applications), There is no better!

Dr.Evil
05 GranSport "lemmoned" I miss her!!(the car not the wife)
03 Ducati Sts4
"I fought the law, and I won"

 

[Vincent Eng]

5w40 European Quaker State is great!!! I have used it in over 10,000 cars over 5 years without an issue.

10,000 cars! Where are your sourcing the 5W40 European QS in New York? My understanding is that weight can only be secured through Ferrari/Maserati in the states.

 

[Vincent Eng]

Here's an interesting link on the Amsoil website: http://www.bestsynthetic.com/comptest.shtml

Below are some links from the Jag-lovers website:

http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/oil-life.html

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/

http://www.unofficialbmw.com/all/misc/all_oilfaq.html

Of course there is also the Consumers Report Study conducted in the 90s that essentially concluded that it doesn't make a difference which brand or weight when they tested in NYC Taxis.

You can drive yourself crazy reading all of the oil literature. Provided that you change your oil at least according to the manufacturer specification, in the end it really comes down to personal preference and ability to source the oil.

 

[FormulaDynamics]

I do agree with Vincent Eng's comments regarding your oil selection and Magnusson Moss. The issue is simply about the hassle that you may face with the dealership. It's typically the first issue they address. That is: how often was oil changed and which brand was used. You will save yourself some headaches here if you have the right products in your car.

Ferrari / Maserati does not own the market on Q European, we can buy as much as we like. However it's a bit of a hassle to get in stock and again, it's not stocked in very many places right now. Typically, just Ferrari / Maserati Dealers. QS was very happy that we would begin to carry it.

 

[drevil]

5w40 Quaker State

5w40 European Quaker State in quarts can be purchased from most quick lubes that sell Quaker State products. The 10w60 Ferrari Spec oil only comes in 55 gallon drums, and that makes is harder to purchase.

DrEvil

 

[windsock]

The 10-60 is designed for track use or specific models and is available in Quart bottles and 5 gallon pails as well as the 55 gallon drums. This Vincent guy must be woderfull to deal with at the dealer spouting of his magnuson act every time he comes in. Keep in mind the dealers do not need the problems of arguing over warranty. It is not their decision. In any significant claim Maserati requires pre authorization and this is were the oil weight and ratings can be a concern. The alpha ratings on the oil as well as the weights are critical. The only major engine failures I have seen are camshaft seizure in the head breaking a timing chain. This was caused by 20-50 and cold temperatures gaulling the aluminum journals. 5-40 or 0-40 and the proper ratings many of which include anti foaming additives critical to dry sump systems that scavenge alot of air with the oil from the engine. Poor foaming additives will result in foamed oil and air/oil mix lubricating the engine and this results in the oil between the moving parts reacting very much like air in a brake system resulting in metal to metal contact under high load.

Someone also mentioned springs and brake pads. Any alteration of ride height may result claims for any suspension and steering components being declined. One of the first things Maserati will ask for with suspension claims is the part number from the springs and pictures of the car and ride height. Keep this in mind. Maserati is very low production and as a result still evaluates every claim submitted by a dealer were many larger volume dealers that only sample a portion of claims and chose to audit dealers based on those results.

Many manufactures also specifically state dry air cleaner elements only. Wet elements (K&N) result in contaminated air meters in many vehicles which result in lean mixtures, detonation and piston damage. This is the reason behind many manufacturers claiming K&N type filters may void warranty. Many aftermarket components all spout that there products do this or do that but obviously none are going to reveal any problems they have encountered. I see failures created by aftermarket components and incorrect services often and unfortunatle there is a great deal of missinformation on how well these aftermarket components work or if they truly provide the results the claim.

Very few peaple who have these items installed tell everyone how great htese items work. Rarely do they follow up if these items later creat problems.

 

[Nielsq]

Just had 18,000 mi. svce. Dealer used Sint-2000 AGIP 10W40.

 

[Vincent Eng]

This Vincent guy must be woderfull to deal with at the dealer spouting of his magnuson act every time he comes in.

Slight overstatement. I've never had a single issue at the dealership that wasn't immediately resolved to my satisfaction and I've never had to discuss any legal action. Further, I've never had an issue with a dealership using an alternative oil (e.g., Mobil 1) and in fact have asked my dealer(s) to source the Mobil 1 and to use it instead of the OEM oil.

My discussion about the Magnusson Moss Act is based on educating owners; however, perhaps it's better to be ignorant. If that's the case - you should only use factory brake pads, don't even consider using a different tire than what the manual states, and lastly make sure you buy your windshield washer fluid from Maserati.

 

[JUSTICE1]

. . . oil business---voiding warranties

In a previous life I litigated mmmaaaannnnnnyyyy Mag-Moss cases. Unfortunately, being right can be very costly in terms of intangibles such as inconveinence and time even if you prevail. Yes, you can use whatever product you believe works best in your car and generally, this never becomes an issue . . . until something doesn't perform according to spec and you become dissatisfied with the performance.

Now, if you have a great relationship with your dealer, you may be fine. However, if you have a strained or impersonal relationship, things could be a lot different for you. Yes, you may ultimately win the battle under Mag-Moss but the war can be quite taxing even with a good lawyer and if you win the reward is that you get what you should've had in the first place.

 

[Vincent Eng]

Your correct. As one who teaches law, ultimate justice has a price. However, I tend to think when using aftermarket parts and supplies they fall into two categories. Fully acceptable and questionable and it's issues that are potentially related to the questionable items that generally are denied warranty coverage. The fully acceptable are your typical things such as using a different major brand x fluid of the same grade or better or using a Bridgestone instead of a Pirelli. Questionable aftermarket products are like pornography, you know it when you see it - a chip that remaps the ECU to increase the turbo psi, changing the pulley on a supercharger to increase spin, etc.

Again maintaining a good relationship with the dealer really helps in the fuzzy zone. In fact both my local Aston Martin dealer and Maserati dealer also stock aftermarket parts, such as Quicksilver and Tubi exhausts. My Jaguar dealer, which is I believe is one of the largest in the country, doesn't even use the Jaguar Hydrosil when resealing the engines, but opts to use a Toyota product instead. Knowing your consumer rights always helps if you have to take it up with headquarters.

I think my sarcastic response a few posts above was due in part to Windsock's personal attack. Having participated on a number of higher end automobile forums, this is the first time that I've seen users attack one another on semi-regular basis. Over this past two weeks, I've seen a few of these types of attacks. Perhaps that's why one of my forums requires a VIN verification prior to participating.

 

[flashgordon]

Disrespect!

I agree completely. Some people on this forum act as though they are immune from error and pounce upon every minor misstep. Why is that?

I had some caustic remarks directed at me recently because I speculated on the geometry of a part connection (despite stating that I was unsure up front). Similarly, a while back, I came to the defense of some poor guy who was being directed away from buying a Maserati because his automotive knowledge was a bit lacking and got a flack back for my troubles.

I think everyone should lighten up a bit and realize that the forum is supposed to be about fun collaboration and sharing knowledge with no recriminations.

 

[Fastfreddy]

I think everyone should lighten up a bit and realize that the forum is supposed to be about fun collaboration and sharing knowledge with no recriminations.

Amen .