[GrndLkNatv]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.quattroruote.it/auto_novi...?codice=122854

A literal translation..
---------------------

http://translate.google.com/translat...language_tools

A new Ferrari Coupe, will compete against the GranTurismo?

 

[Troesma]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.quattroruote.it/auto_novi...?codice=122854

A literal translation..
---------------------

http://translate.google.com/translat...language_tools

A new Ferrari Coupe, will compete against the GranTurismo?

Mark

Did I mentioned that some weeks ago..?

 

[JUSTICE1]

Dead Page . . . what was it?

Dead Page . . . what was it?

 

[Troesma]

Dead Page . . . what was it?

http://www.quattroruote.it/auto_novita/articolo.cfm?codice=122854

 

[GrndLkNatv]

yes...

Ed, I do remember now you raising this very topic! Why would Ferrari want to compete with itself in the coupe market? I am sure the Ferrari will be much higher priced, but it must have all started with Fiat taking Maserati away from Ferrari so maybe this is a little corporate political undermining going on?

 

[Bcube]

Speculation has the baby Ferrari at $180K. What sucks - so to speak - is that the baby Ferrari is using the platform that was originally designed for the Maser GS/Coupe/Spyder replacement. A new Coupe/Spyder replacement will come from an Alfa Romeo platform, now. Unless the QP/GT platform can be shortened again. I guess take a page from Aston Martin and how they use one platform for three (now four) car models.

 

[Fastfreddy]

I guess take a page from Aston Martin and how they use one platform for three (now four) car models.

Lee Iacocca and the Chrysler K-car.

 

[BigFoot]

I seriously doubt Ferrari will build a "baby" car. It'd be marketing suicide as it'd steal clients away form Maserati.

 

[BeeYouZeeZee]

I seriously doubt Ferrari will build a "baby" car. It'd be marketing suicide as it'd steal clients away form Maserati.

Well, remember how "wrong" we were to consider our maserati's exotics? Maserati themselves remind us that they're a new BMW/Mercedes not an exotic brand. This leaves the true exotic family member free to introduce an entry-level exotic that plays well with the new Maserati image. Why would a $180k Ferrari displace any $120k "sports luxury" sales? Sounds like a match made in heaven!

BTW did I read the new Ferrari is a 2+2? Cool!

 

[Fastfreddy]

Doesn't Ferrari still produce the 612 Scaglietti?

 

[MaseratiBoy]

The 614 (2+2) was discontinued because it was a failure...

The 599 is the new one (2+0) and is a complete sccess.

 

[BigFoot]

Well, remember how "wrong" we were to consider our maserati's exotics? Maserati themselves remind us that they're a new BMW/Mercedes not an exotic brand. This leaves the true exotic family member free to introduce an entry-level exotic that plays well with the new Maserati image. Why would a $180k Ferrari displace any $120k "sports luxury" sales? Sounds like a match made in heaven!

BTW did I read the new Ferrari is a 2+2? Cool!

Montezemolo said so himself: the entry-level Ferrari is and will always be second-hand cars.


I am not sure about the price differential but a new F430 retails for about ¥22m here in Japan, about $200k. An entry level would have to be more like $150k to make sense, rather than $180k (given the "entry level" should have 450hp, one would be foolish to save $20k for a loss of 50hp).

At that price, it'd still a chunk ($30-40k?) more expensive than the QP or GT but not overly not to take some (I didn't say all ), perhaps a substantial number, of the potential Maserati buyers away.

Supposedly, according to autoblog, the entry level Fezza will be unveiled in September at the Paris Motor Show. Just a few more months to find out exactly what's going on

 

[BigFoot]

Doesn't Ferrari still produce the 612 Scaglietti?

The 612 Scaglietti is still offered in Japan, so I deduce Ferrari still makes it.

 

[Fastfreddy]

Entry level Ferrari 2+2? 308 GT4? Mondial? uh-huh.... beating a dead horse on that idea.

I checked and found the 612 Scaglietti is still offered. IMHO, the 456 was better. Anyway, they already have a coupe. The "entry level" concept has never worked for Ferrari. It was genius to resurrect Maserati to occupy the niche. Too bad they dropped the ball.

 

[BigFoot]

I am not sure they've dropped the ball with regards to Maserati (if I understand well what you meant).

There is evidence of Maserati working on a EUR 70-80k smaller coupe' (350hp, lightweight) and of launching a drop-top version of the GT.

I think there is a fair amount of investment going on in the Maserati brand.

 

[BeeYouZeeZee]

I am not sure they've dropped the ball with regards to Maserati (if I understand well what you meant).

There is evidence of Maserati working on a EUR 70-80k smaller coupe' (350hp, lightweight) and of launching a drop-top version of the GT.

I think there is a fair amount of investment going on in the Maserati brand.

I believe Maserati's signed up for the BMW business model and the these new cars will merely be their "3-series and M's". Remember, right now the only thing Maser makes is a slush-box!

As for Ferrari: Don't be too quick to dismiss an entry level coupe. After all, that's really what the 4200 maser was (and it wasn't any 308 or Mondial). Drop something similar into Ferrari's lineup, give it the same drivetrain and a prancing horse and I think you've got something. Remember, the 4200 (F430) marked the era of high mileage daily drivers with chain-driven cams. Nothing like Ferrari had produced in the past. I'd love a 4200-like Ferrari daily driver now that the Maser version is dead! Hell, just rebadge the 4200

 

[BigFoot]

Not sure I get the first point. Maser is a high end, low output car manufacturer, BMW is a mass manufacturer (there are more 3 series in Britain than Ford Mondeos fyi).

 

[GrndLkNatv]

So....

I didn't hear that Maserati was going to discontinue the coupe... I also heard that they are producing a 4.7 litre GT for sure... So I can see Maserati continuing their presence as it is and Ferrari looking to get into the high end of that market for those who want 4 seats and a prancing horse. I do know that Maserati has made more on the quattro than on the coupe so it might all fit together nicely. Anyone else have any thoughts?? I think coupes will become collectors items here soon..

 

[Bcube]

As for Ferrari: Don't be too quick to dismiss an entry level coupe.

I agree. The world market is much different than even 5 years ago. With Luca saying that Ferrari will keep their top line stuff exclusive by limiting production, how are they going to fill the demand for Ferrari by the emerging markets (China/India) and not piss off the long standing markets (N.America/Europe) that has kept their F1 program alive all these years.

What are the Options?
A) Increase production of top end models? That goes against Ferrari production mantra and endangers the Ferrari mystique thru mass production.
B) Transfer majority of sales to China/India? Corporate Suicide.
C) Ignore China/India? Long term future growth disaster.

Answer: Fill the void with the soon-to-be released Ferrari California GT. (One of the possible names given to the car, after "Dino" was rejected)

A 180K 2+2 Ferrari is not an unreasonable entry price - in the USA, Ferrari recently increased the MSRP 20% due to the Euro/Dollar conversion.

Here is a quick snapshot of the USA market:
Used 430 Coupe: $220K+
Used 430 Spyder: $300K
Used 599: $480
Used 612: Sinking like a rock - Thus Ferrari's decision to postpone one year production in USA until demand catches up again AND it allows Ferrari to transfer 612 resources to concentrate on the new line.

 

[Fastfreddy]

The Coupe is a fantastic car that fits a fantastic niche. Maserati has abandoned that niche in favor of performance luxury automatic transmission cars. Ferrari has tried the entry level daily driver niche before with the "Dino" line (no Ferrari badge) and the Mondial range (glorified Fiat) and failed. It was brilliant to resurrect the Maserati "brand" and fill this niche with the 3200/4200/Coupe/Spyder. The new qporte made sense for the heritage and extended the line. When the Qporte became the big seller, Maserati changed course. I don't think they'll ever go back. A resurrected Alfa brand is picking up the niche. Maybe it'll work. It would not be a good idea for Ferrari to keep trying to go down-scale. It is true that the entry level Ferrari is a used Ferrari. That is what works.

Yes, the Coupe is a fantastic car in design and execution. It is a wonderful timeless car that will indeed develop a cult following to last long after the concept has faded away. It will be a rare collector car, though probably not an investment car. A wonderful moment in the evolution of the automobile that will be remembered and valued for what it is.