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Discussion Starter #1
Hi-

I am curious to hear some feedback from QP owners who have driven or owned a VW Phaeton.

In your opinion, how do they compare with respect to ride quality, performance, comfort, etc.

Thanks in advance for sharing your thoughts on this subject.
 

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I haven't driven a Phaeton, but I did recently drive a Passat. The ride is roughly the same as the the QP, so I am trading in soon.
 

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Do you mean trading-in your QP for a Passat..? Seriously?
 

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This must be a joke

Comparing an exotic italian car with an everyday VW???

Just look at it this way:

VW top of the line is what 60 or 80 grand US?

Qp start at roughly 100 or 110 grand US?

The engines are completely different animals enough said...
 

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I have had a Phaeton W12 about 1 - 1/2 years ago (European Import). As it was said before completely different vehicles. I wouldn't trade my QP for a Phaeton if it was given to me. The Phaeton is a good car, don't get me wrong the W12 engine is very powerful and everything, ride is very compliant and everything in the car is without any fault. And there lies the problem. The Phaeton seems bland in comparison to the QP. The QP has soul and all the intangibles a VW is definitely missing. As good as the Phaeton is it is still a "Peoples Car". I don't think the price difference between the QP and the Phaeton is all that important for people shopping in the $ 100 - $ 130 price range. However, soul is and the Phaeton is definitely lacking there big time. Also the reliability on my QP is much better than on the Phaeton (never thought I would say that when buying the QP, but it is true). Not to take anything away from the Phaeton - if it would have been branded as an entry level Bentley it would probably be a success (and VW could have asked more money too), but the brand of VW does not entice too many luxury car shoppers. Just my 2 c.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
thanks for sharing

QPIE003 said:
The Phaeton seems bland in comparison to the QP. The QP has soul and all the intangibles a VW is definitely missing. As good as the Phaeton is it is still a "Peoples Car". However, the soul of the Phaeton is definitely lacking big time. Also the reliability on my QP is much better than on the Phaeton. Not to take anything away from the Phaeton - if it would have been branded as an entry level Bentley it would probably be a success (and VW could have asked more money too), but the brand of VW does not entice too many luxury car shoppers. Just my 2 c.
Thanks for your sincere comments. I actually own a Phaeton and was considering buying a QP as well. The styling of the Phaeton is definately more conservative than the QP. IMO, the lines of the Phaeton are quite elegant from any angle. I can't exactly say the same for the QP. However, I do consider it to be a very attractive car.

Your comments about the QP having "soul and intangibles" that the Phaeton lacks is somewhat puzzling to me. I suppose I will have to test drive a QP to discover exactly what you are talking about, but please try to elaborate if you can.

The Phaeton was discontinued in North America as of Feb 06, but continues to sell in Europe and Asia. This is largely due to the fact that the average American luxury car buyer just couldn't see himself driving a VW, regardless of the quality of the vehicle. That is pretty pathetic if you ask me. I don't make car buying decisions based on status or presitige. I buy a car for it for the machine that it is. My highbrow friends at the country club haven't given me the boot for buying a VW. All is well.

The comment about marketing the Phaeton as an entry level Bentley is spot on. It would have sold like hotcakes without the VW badges. For those who are unware, the Phaeton actually IS an entry level Bentley Flying Spur. They are both hand built on the same platform at the same factory in Dresden, Germany. (Yes, the FS is also made at the Bentley factory in Crewe, England). The Phaeton and the Flying Spur have many major mechanical components in common. They both use the VW w12 engine, but the Spur adds a twin turbo. The air suspension, transmission, frame, all wheel drive system and infotainment system are essentially the same on both cars.

You say you find the QP to be more reliable than the Phaeton. I have put 40,000 miles on my Phaeton and have experienced ZERO problems. That is not unusual. The car is very well built. If something does go wrong, mine has a warranty up to 100,000 miles. Yes, I plan to drive it that long. It is my daily driver for business purposes and I drive it quite a bit since I am a regional sales rep.

I am looking into the QP because I'm shopping for a pleasure vehicle. I like big sedans, but I may also consider a CC or GS for this purchase. One thing that concerns me about the QP is that the automotive press considers the QP transmission to "kind of suck". That is their words, not mine. The Phaeton has got one hell of a nice tranny. Super smooth shifts and yes, you can shift it with paddle shifters if desired.

So does the QP tranny really suck that bad or is that potential issue overblown in your opinion? No pun intended.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
not a joke

hmbgransport said:
Comparing an exotic italian car with an everyday VW???

Just look at it this way:

VW top of the line is what 60 or 80 grand US?

Qp start at roughly 100 or 110 grand US?

The engines are completely different animals enough said...

This ridiculously shallow post doesn't deserve a rebuttal.
 

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Spectral, I had one of the first batch W12, which I bought in Germany and had brought to the US, because, I like you, do not consider myself to be buying cars for status symbols but rather for appreciating the technical expertise and amount of engineering and excitement built into them. The Phaeton is a nice example of a large sedan. My example did not stand up to the task due to minor irritations in the built quality of the interior and leaving me stranded twice on road trips due to faulty electronics. Granted mine was the one of the first batch and those things are probably to be considered infancy problems. I wouldn't hold that against the Phaeton line up in general. I don't think however that people sepnding upwards of 100 K and being a little suspcious of spending that amount on VW as pathetic, but rather quality orientated and being curious if a company having built their reputation as a company building affordable, well built vehicles for the masses having the right stuff to cater to the luxury crowd. In my book they have - for it to be an economic success they just lack the brand. Back to your question, the tranny in the QP is what it is. It is not Lexus smooth, it is not an automatic. For spirited drives through the countryside it is the best you can ever have. I am not surprised that car testers don't like the DuoSelect as it does get some time to get properly acquainted with each other and can not be explored in a day or two. Once you have learned the in's and out's it is a fantastic set up. In all honesty, having owned a lot of larges sedans (Jaguar XJR, VW Phaeton, Audi A8, MB S 500,) the Maser is the most engaging, most fun if you want it to be, and very luxurious and comfortable if it needs to be.
If you are enthusiastic about driving, have a passion for Italian exotics, and just get a kick out of driving the QP is THE sedan, if comfortable uninvolving luxury is your top priority the others are a better choice. It is a choice you have to make and there is some soul searching involved. I believe someone (Troesma?) has put that quite fitting in another Quattroporte thread. Have fun thinking about what to do and let me know what you end up doing! Cheers!
 

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Spectral, I had one of the first batch W12, which I bought in Germany and had brought to the US, because, I like you, do not consider myself to be buying cars for status symbols but rather for appreciating the technical expertise and amount of engineering and excitement built into them. The Phaeton is a nice example of a large sedan. My example did not stand up to the task due to minor irritations in the built quality of the interior and leaving me stranded twice on road trips due to faulty electronics. Granted mine was the one of the first batch and those things are probably to be considered infancy problems. I wouldn't hold that against the Phaeton line up in general. I don't think however that people sepnding upwards of 100 K and being a little suspcious of spending that amount on VW as pathetic, but rather quality orientated and being curious if a company having built their reputation as a company building affordable, well built vehicles for the masses having the right stuff to cater to the luxury crowd. In my book they have - for it to be an economic success they just lack the brand. Back to your question, the tranny in the QP is what it is. It is not Lexus smooth, it is not an automatic. For spirited drives through the countryside it is the best you can ever have. I am not surprised that car testers don't like the DuoSelect as it does get some time to get properly acquainted with each other and can not be explored in a day or two. Once you have learned the in's and out's it is a fantastic set up. In all honesty, having owned a lot of larges sedans (Jaguar XJR, VW Phaeton, Audi A8, MB S 500,) the Maser is the most engaging, most fun if you want it to be, and very luxurious and comfortable if it needs to be.
The soul and intangible can't easily be explained it is the sum of all parts. The Poltrona Frau leather, the noises emminating from the engine and exhaust, the sounds from the transmission and the suspension digging into a turn. There is just so much uniqueness - which actually works!
If you are enthusiastic about driving, have a passion for Italian exotics, and just get a kick out of driving the QP is THE sedan, if comfortable uninvolving luxury is your top priority the others are a better choice. It is a choice you have to make and there is some soul searching involved. I believe someone (Troesma?) has put that quite fitting in another Quattroporte thread. Have fun thinking about what to do and let me know what you end up doing! Cheers!
 

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It was Frankie P, who said it better than I have heard it before. So here it goes:

Maserati is not for everybody. I think their suitability has much to do with the person owning and driving it, particularly their personality and approach to cars and for that matter, other things in life. There are those who buy a luxury item i.e. car, watch, pen even, exclusively for the wow-factor it illicits. Others buy these items for their intrinsic, "Goodness," i.e. engineering, craftmanship, experience in operation, etc. These are the enthusiasts, who are a little obsessed in their pursuit of perfection. That obsession and enjoyment of the whole Maserati experience helps us get past check engine lights, failed steering columns, oil leaks, coolant leaks, water pump replacments, transmission leaks, ECU malfunctions, and all of the other things my car has experienced. I LOVE MY CAR! Without a certain level of enthusiasm for the mark and appreciation for the driving experience, I think these kinds of problems would overwhelm the average luxury car driver. Having owned 3 M3's consecutively prior to my Maserati purchase, you can be rest assured I never had anywhere near this level of mechanical failure. Yet, I purposefully left the M3 fold after one drive in the Maserati. Why? The aural and tactile sensations I experienced in that first drive was more exciting and stimulating and fun than anything I ever did in my M3's, to include tracking them. Thus, there was a tradeoff that I was and continue to be willing to make. Not everybody wants what we want in our cars, and therefore are unlikely to tolerate the downside of that tradeoff.

Thus, some soul searching is necessary in deciding whether to take the Maserati plunge. If you're buying a status symbol but otherwise don't know a camshaft from a driveshaft, Maserati is probably not for you. For the enthusiast, it is the bargain of the century considering the Ferrari componentry, hand-made interior, etc. And, hey, I've never been stranded by my girl. Can't say that for my wife's 7 series!
 

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Spectral said:
This ridiculously shallow post doesn't deserve a rebuttal.
Dude, it's your thread, but it's pretty flipping rude to come in, ask for advice, and then dismiss what you get because you don't like the opinion or feel superior because you can "appreciate the engineering" on the VW version of an Edsel.

Spectral said:
Your comments about the QP having "soul and intangibles" that the Phaeton lacks is somewhat puzzling to me.
That's evident from the fact that you even asked the question.

You just earned the fastest "put on ignore" in my time here.
 

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Spectral said:
...This is largely due to the fact that the average American luxury car buyer just couldn't see himself driving a VW, regardless of the quality of the vehicle. That is pretty pathetic if you ask me...The comment about marketing the Phaeton as an entry level Bentley is spot on. It would have sold like hotcakes without the VW badges...
You say you find the QP to be more reliable than the Phaeton. I have put 40,000 miles on my Phaeton and have experienced ZERO problems. That is not unusual. The car is very well built...

the automotive press considers the QP transmission to "kind of suck". That is their words, not mine. The Phaeton has got one hell of a nice tranny. Super smooth shifts and yes, you can shift it with paddle shifters if desired.

So does the QP tranny really suck that bad or is that potential issue overblown in your opinion? No pun intended.
what's with the million questions when you already have answers to them.
 

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hmbgransport said:
Comparing an exotic italian car with an everyday VW???
Just look at it this way:
VW top of the line is what 60 or 80 grand US?
Qp start at roughly 100 or 110 grand US?
The engines are completely different animals enough said...
I won't go so far to say this comment is shallow or ridiculous, but I will say it is misinformed. Top-of-the-line Phaetons W12s sticker at $105-108k, so they are theoretically in the same cross-shopping category at least pricewise.

The engines are different. The Phaeton has a six-liter W12 that generates over 440 HP and over 400 ft-lbs of torque.

Both cars are incredible examples of engineering and luxury; they do drive differently and have, to an enthusiast, different "personalities". The transmission quirks of F1/duoselect are well known and thoroughly discussed here; as always, recommendations usually run to the "test drive it and decide for yourself" camp. Do NOT, however, expect the Quattroporte to feel like a Phaeton/S550/A8/750i/XJ8 etc.
 

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Spectral said:
The comment about marketing the Phaeton as an entry level Bentley is spot on. It would have sold like hotcakes without the VW badges. For those who are unware, the Phaeton actually IS an entry level Bentley Flying Spur.
You just don't get it, the Maserati has something "extra" that you can't generate though sharing spare parts. If your logic were true, then nobody would have bought/made an oil painting since the advent of photography.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
QPIE003 said:
The soul and intangible can't easily be explained it is the sum of all parts. The Poltrona Frau leather, the noises emminating from the engine and exhaust, the sounds from the transmission and the suspension digging into a turn. There is just so much uniqueness - which actually works!
If you are enthusiastic about driving, have a passion for Italian exotics, and just get a kick out of driving the QP is THE sedan, if comfortable uninvolving luxury is your top priority the others are a better choice.
Thank you, QPIE003 for your thoughtful contribution. I am beginning to understand what makes the QP so special. Your words have encouraged me to take a closer look and test drive the QP. Thanks for pointing out the reference to Franky P's post as well. It was also helpful to the cause.

The interior of the QP is simply gorgeous. I hear ya about the Poltrona Frau leather. My Phaeton is outfitted with the optional Poltrona Frau as well.

Enjoy your QP and thanks again for the feedback!
 

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F. Yu said:
I won't go so far to say this comment is shallow or ridiculous, but I will say it is misinformed. Top-of-the-line Phaetons W12s sticker at $105-108k, so they are theoretically in the same cross-shopping category at least pricewise.
Yes, I agree that my "shallow and ridiculous" comment was a bit over the top for a first time poster here. I see that it has inspired others to put their flame suit on. Flame me if you must. It doesn't bother me and I won't be responding to the flamers.
 

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Good looking out Steeldream

You must be joking right...

I guess thats the best you can think of....

"Uh im not gonna resond to this idiot"

Well my dear friend, I am sure you never drove a maserati QP becuase as all of us on this website have a relationship and a passion for driving, hence the name "MaseratiLife".

The best way i can put it is like this:

( I apologize if i leave out any of my fellow maserati faithfuls)

Many of us hear on this website have children, right?? SO we can all imagine saying to someone without kids, that our children bring us the greatest joys. People without children will never "FULLY" understand this concept until they have children of their own. Then when they do, they can not only describe it, but they feel it.

This is the same as drving a Maserati Gransport or in this case a Quattroporte. You will never understand the passion, the emotions of driving these cars, no, not on a test drive, but really drive, in the counrty roads, the highways, the city, and while sitting in one of the most luxurios eye candy that has ever been designed..

Let Maseratis light the fire within!!! Im not sure we can say the same aobut a VW Phaeton? Someone care to disagree???
 

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hmbgransport said:
You must be joking right...

I guess thats the best you can think of....

"Uh im not gonna resond to this idiot"

Well my dear friend, I am sure you never drove a maserati QP becuase as all of us on this website have a relationship and a passion for driving, hence the name "MaseratiLife".

The best way i can put it is like this:

( I apologize if i leave out any of my fellow maserati faithfuls)

Many of us hear on this website have children, right?? SO we can all imagine saying to someone without kids, that our children bring us the greatest joys. People without children will never "FULLY" understand this concept until they have children of their own. Then when they do, they can not only describe it, but they feel it.

This is the same as drving a Maserati Gransport or in this case a Quattroporte. You will never understand the passion, the emotions of driving these cars, no, not on a test drive, but really drive, in the counrty roads, the highways, the city, and while sitting in one of the most luxurios eye candy that has ever been designed..

Let Maseratis light the fire within!!! Im not sure we can say the same aobut a VW Phaeton? Someone care to disagree???

I agree with you 1000%, except that my children are a pain inthe a$$.....just kidding.
People keep forgetting that engineering excellence does not equal a passionate car worthy of being the objetc of an enthusiast's dreams. Engineering excellence can be found in a toaster. It is abit like the Japanese art of having tea....it ain't about the tea.
 

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maseratifan said:
I agree with you 1000%, except that my children are a pain inthe a$$.....just kidding.
People keep forgetting that engineering excellence does not equal a passionate car worthy of being the objetc of an enthusiast's dreams. Engineering excellence can be found in a toaster. It is abit like the Japanese art of having tea....it ain't about the tea.
...well said!!!

Here is a document that may help a bit in describing what "passion" means:



 

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i was not even going to participate in this thread, but the passion really gets me going.

driving an vw phaeton, or a8, or similar sedans are like having an ok fcuk with an average girl. yeah, you got all your TNA, your normal 4play, bj, fcuk, yeah, everything is there, but there is no passion. you fcuk once and that's all. you can fcuk her all week and there is nothing to write home about. it's the same fcuking thing over and over. after you are done with it, it is just *yawn*.

now, driving a maserati (or any italian exotics) is like having a damn good fcuk with a sexy model who gives not just your std fcuking... you get raw aural feedbacks, tactile excitements, and she stirs your heartrate more and more. it drives all your senses and induces your urge and desire for more. you know you fcuk her good she's going to play with you and brings you even more pleasure.
 
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