Maserati Forum banner
1 - 19 of 19 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,309 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'll be tracking my GS soon and want to be a bit smarter than the last time I went. On the long straights, I was taking each gear just to redline before shifting, thinking this would be give me the fastest acceleration but, after thinking about it a bit, I'm not sure now.

Looking at dyno graphs that others have posted here in the past, it looks like max HP is achieved somewhere around 5,000 RPM and then tails off quickly. Would this be the best point to shift? Am I losing speed by taking it up to redline?

Also, what about using the MSP during track events? Do most of you run at the track with the stability control on? It seems that this would slow you down in the turns potentially but, be a safer option for 'amateurs'.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
4,261 Posts
I'd say MSP should definitely be off and changing around 5k RPM is where I feel it gives the car the best oomph (spelling?).

Have fun!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
722 Posts
The graphs I have seen have HP peak after 7000 rpm. IMHO you should be shiftiing between there and redline.

Speaking out of school, practice quite a bit before turning MSP off. Short cars switch ends quickly.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,405 Posts
I agree with DeaneG, that's why some companies even remove the RPM limiter.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
824 Posts
Yeah, you also need to look at the torque spread of where you end up where you shift into. Just based on my experience with the car on the roads I'd go with 6500-7000 as a shift point. If you wait for exactly 7 every time you run the risk of getting to the point where it loses power, so I would use 6,500 as the decision point, by the time you react you'll be close to 7,000 at least in the lower gears.

I would have sport on and MSP ON, especially in a spyder as the others have said, unless you have a lot of RWD experience at the track.

Also, the shift points will not make a huge difference to how fast you get around there. Learning the braking points and the apexes and lines into the corners will.

A couple of things, make sure you don't go more than 15-20 minutes worth of track time without pitting to check rubber and brakes. I've melted tires (with correct PSI) and rotors (not in the Maserati) easily in that amount of time. Speaking of which, I'd add 2-4 PSI cold over stock pressures for the track, as a starting point.

Also, it would be better if your tires are not brand new-full depth. Tread squirm creates friction creates heat, leads to chunking.

My driving school has a mantra of "build skills, add speed, repeat". Just take it easy and let everyone else go crazy in the first 10-15 minutes.

Sometime I have taken an entire afternoon to nail each corner individually then put them together for a few fast laps, and that's it. Don't expect to go 10/10 every lap.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,309 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Thanks Glenn - all great advice. I've noticed that when running on shorter tracks with lots of turns, the rotors and brakes actually start glowing and smoking...the smell of smoldering pads in 100 degree heat the last time made me feel nauseous and I had to pit early. And....I have the FD pads with Motul performance brake fluid.

The other thing I noticed is that with a helmet on, the auditory cues of when to shift are completely lost! I accidentally redlined in 5th gear and had the engine choke down at Pocono earlier this summer so, a big lesson for me was to pay attention to the dash instruments much more frequently.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
824 Posts
Thanks Glenn - all great advice. I've noticed that when running on shorter tracks with lots of turns, the rotors and brakes actually start glowing and smoking...the smell of smoldering pads in 100 degree heat the last time made me feel nauseous and I had to pit early. And....I have the FD pads with Motul performance brake fluid.

The other thing I noticed is that with a helmet on, the auditory cues of when to shift are completely lost! I accidentally redlined in 5th gear and had the engine choke down at Pocono earlier this summer so, a big lesson for me was to pay attention to the dash instruments much more frequently.
Well, I wouldn't pay "too much" attention to them - that's why I suggested 6,500-7,000 and you really only want to glance there. It probably only matters in the straights and corner exits.

Also even knowing what gear you are in requires glancing at the gear indicator. In a stick shift you have the feel of where you just stuck it as a good guide.

Generally speaking at our school we only advocate looking at instruments on the main straight where you have a bit of time.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
the real key is where you end up after the shift, you want to keep the engine in the power band, so looking at a torque curve is more helpful. as mentioned before, you do not want to get to 7K you will bounce of the rev liiter and that will slow you down, but equally you do not want to shift at 5K as then you end up around 3K or lower depending on the gearing, and you have less than optimal acceleration after the shift.

THus the no brainer solution is to shift right before redline as the power drop off in the high rev range is less than the losses from shifting early.

this is true for high reving cars older long stroke engines have torgue lower down and really run out of power high up so the advice does not apply to them.
 

·
Vendor
Joined
·
4,728 Posts
I'd suggest shifting around 6500 - 7000 RPM. Be sure to get at least one, maybe two cool down laps after pushing it hard. It's important to keep air flowing through the brakes, engine, etc... Many people overlook this when bringing street cars to the track, they really do need some well deserved cool off time. Shutting a car down just after tearing it up on the track will cause some serious overheating that you may not even notice. Brake rotors can warp, etc.

Definitely use Sport Mode. If you're not already sure that you can drive with MSP off and be comfortable sliding... I would leave MSP on until you're comfortable activating it and having it catch again. This is a good way to test the limits in a safer way. Once you feel comfortable try disengaging it for a bit and just be very cautious.

You will not be able to turn the cars best lap time with the MSP engaged. However it's not worth piling your nice red maserati over either.

Check your tire presures after each session! Make sure they are around 36psi and balanced around the car ( this psi may depend on your tire ) Do NOT run max psi listed on your tire sidewall. That is too much and the tire will overheat.

Take some good pictures!

Best Regards,
-- Jeff
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,309 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Thanks everyone....seems the consensus is in the higher RPMs (>= 6.5K - 7K). I hadn't thought about how the torque curve played into this but it definitely makes sense.....it's also about where your power curve is **following** the shift that can make a big difference.

I have 'played' on some back roads with MSP off and OMG what a difference! It is soooo easy to slide the back end out with all the power/torque so, I'll have to build up to it when on the track but, I definitely want to try it out when there is plenty of room between me and those behind.

Thanks guys!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
744 Posts
I spent 8 hours at the track for the first time ever last Thursday and it was a real eye opener. I always thought that I was a hot shoe since I drove faster than anyone that I knew on the street and used to ride fast sport bikes, ski race etc. I was very well versed in all of the academic aspects of car handling (threshold braking, understeer/ oversteer balance using throttle, apexing etc. ) but nonetheless I was pretty humbled for the first 15 laps or so.

Firstly, I learned that aggressiveness and power did not seem to matter one iota (one guy in a Lotus Elise tought everyone a good lesson about that). Secondly, I leaned that knowing the "racing line" on that particular course was the single most important factor in establishing and maintaining a high speed. Thirdly, I learned that the "racing line" was not intuitively obvious but required a significant amount of mental effort to figure out. Fourthly, memorizing all of the braking points and turn in points was a prerequisite for establishing the "racing line". Finally, I learned that smoothness, mental calmness and rythum were necessary to maintain conistently fast lap times.

Once I got all that sorted out, I actually started enjoying myself and was able to improve my times from one of the slowest in Group L (for "Learner" or "Less" aggressive) to mid way up the M group (for "More" aggressive). I am sure that now that I have had time to reflect upon my experience and study the track more, that I could do a lot better next time.

My suggestion is that you get a map of the track before you go out and watch youtube videos of others in order to memorize the track layout. Then, drop your ego, and all preconceived notions for half a day and listen to your instructor (who likely knows the track). After that, slowly put it together and turn up the heat.

Good Luck.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,405 Posts
How did the car perform with all the FD upgrades?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
I'll be tracking my GS soon and want to be a bit smarter than the last time I went. On the long straights, I was taking each gear just to redline before shifting, thinking this would be give me the fastest acceleration but, after thinking about it a bit, I'm not sure now.

Looking at dyno graphs that others have posted here in the past, it looks like max HP is achieved somewhere around 5,000 RPM and then tails off quickly. Would this be the best point to shift? Am I losing speed by taking it up to redline?

Also, what about using the MSP during track events? Do most of you run at the track with the stability control on? It seems that this would slow you down in the turns potentially but, be a safer option for 'amateurs'.
Hi Vincenzo

Racing is all about corner entry speed and exit speed. Back in the 80's I would beat far more powerful Porsches with suspension mods and very important good tires. Corner weights of the car are also very important. Get the car set up by a pro. The Maser revs very freely. I would suggest getting the rev limiter increased to 8000rpm. The engine will take it and it will give you a little extra margin through difficult corners. Ideal shift points would be about 7500rpm, too close to your factory limiter. HP = speed and Torque = acceleration. You are confusing the push you feel at 5000 with power at 7000. Max power is at 7000, but you need to go just over this on your shifts to keep you in the power band, even though the car has very track friendly close ratios.
When I stopped racing in 92, I spent a year training drivers. Everybody gained better times through the above and learning how to get the best from the car. You have to become a part of the car. When you get it right, you will be planning the next corner when already half way through the corner you are in.
Practice makes perfect. Todays top racers spend more time on a simulator than they do the track. When you can drift your car at over a 100mph in complete control you know you are getting there.
A course driving single seaters would open your eyes and improve your skills. On test days my F3 would run past Porsches like they were standing still. Step down to a Maser and you would feel like you are going for a Sunday drive. Obviously you would turn off the traction control when you have mastered the car, it would slow you down.
Hope this helps
Paul
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
744 Posts
How did the car perform with all the FD upgrades?
Overall, It was great.

By the end of the day (once I figured out the track), I was running just a bit slower than the F430's (but some of them could have been 360's since I can't tell the diff), but faster than the 348's, 355's and also a Z-06 and a few other assorteds. The car was very fast on the straights. The chief instructor came up to me after my first set of laps and asked about the exhaust and said "man that car is a rocket on the straights". I did not lose more than a maybe four car lengths on the F430's on the 4/5 mile front straight.

Handling was very good but the car still rolled too much and this was noted by a few guys (including one in a in Enzo) behind me so I think than the new FD anti sway bars will really come in handy.

The biggest problem was the brakes. After four fast laps, I was getting noticeable brake fade and a serious burning smell to the point that I had to brake about a car length before the number 4 braking marker (that is the farthest out from corner 1 after the main straight). The tires also started to give way under the repeated 140 MPH stops on turn 1. I think this is a real problem (and scary as hell to tell the truth) so I think that if I start doing more track days, a Ta-Ox brake upgrade (or something similar) and more rubber will be required.
 

·
Vendor
Joined
·
4,728 Posts
I would not recommend increasing your rev limiter. There is no power at 8K and it just pushes all the components harder and throttle modulation is non-existent. None of these folks on the forum are racing, just having a great time at the track. No need to shorten the life of any components for that. Your peak power and torque begin falling off at 6800 RPM. You're better off short shifting into the next gear, you'll still have plenty of torque to pull through the corner and you'll be less likely to invoke wheelspin.

Certainly a high entry speed is important in some corners, usually long sweeping corners that you slide into the apex of. However most of the time exit speed is the most rewarding. The difference is that with a high entry speed you carry the extra speed for the time you spend in the corner but may sacrifice being able to get on the throttle earlier to get an improved exit speed. Exit Speed is very important because you can carry the extra mph's you have earned by getting on the throttle sooner all the way to the next corner or braking zone, instead of just the duration of the first half of a corner to the apex.

Flash, I'd be sure to find someone that installed the Tar-Ox system and had good results before spending the money there. I've not carried the products only because I've heard it's more of a gimmick than a proven system. I have not found anyone with this setup on a Maserati. Of course, I could be completely wrong and would like to have a better solution to offer. With the cost involved for the Tar-Ox, I would be sure that the juice is worth the squeeze.

We do have a track pad which can be slipped into the front calipers just before a track day, they are a further improvement but still can only help so much on the track coming down from 140mph repeatedly.

The sway bars will help for sure on the track.

Best Regards,
-- Jeff
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
5,887 Posts

·
Vendor
Joined
·
4,728 Posts
You've got it! It's all about being deliberate in your actions but smooooth as can be.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,405 Posts
When are we going to put together a track day?

Jeff, if you got that going more and more people would buy your products because it seems like the springs, sway bars and brake upgrade are a must-have for track. ;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
744 Posts
Flash, I'd be sure to find someone that installed the Tar-Ox system and had good results before spending the money there. I've not carried the products only because I've heard it's more of a gimmick than a proven system. I have not found anyone with this setup on a Maserati. Of course, I could be completely wrong and would like to have a better solution to offer. With the cost involved for the Tar-Ox, I would be sure that the juice is worth the squeeze.
Jeff, I only noted Tar-Ox because it is one of the only aftermarket brakes that I could find that fits a Maserati. The feedback on them seems to be generally positive as far as I can tell. On their website they have a link to a Redline magazine test where their brakes came out first and they claim to have been involved in F1. I agree completely that some real feedback is needed from someone that is actually using them.

Are you looking at any alternatives, as I agree that they are pretty extravagently priced (around $6500 for the fronts alone)
 
1 - 19 of 19 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top