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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So it finally happened , I have my first GTS electrical issue that happened tonight unfortunately away from my house 馃槶. So looking for ideas on what to check out tomorrow before I pay for a tow truck to drop it back at home. as far as bad news goes it is stuck parked at the top empty floor of my local restaurants parking garage so it鈥檚 fine for tonight as I don鈥檛 think it鈥檒l be impounded/ticket towed

anyway the basics is it鈥檚 been cold here (45 degrees) all week so I didn鈥檛 turn the Car on since last weekend.

Tonight I go to the car, doors open fine with key I sit down turn the key to on position and
no noises/clicks (no crank ) i don鈥檛 hear any relays and starter not engaged, car doesn鈥檛 even attempt to crank.
All lights work in the inside and no flickering or error lights aside from the ones that always show before you start the car. I have the digital dash so it shows 11.4-11.7 voltage for battery. I close my car door take the key out lock the car unlock the car open door put the key in turn it on etc basically do this like 4/5 times and it finally starts after 5 mins of trying these random combos . no error lights on Dash and no engine noises or issues entire 25 min drive and while driving battery voltage shows as 13.5-13.6. Park in parking spot and let car idle an extra 5 mins before turning off.

go to eat for 2 hours and come back and now same exact issue. Can unlock door all lights work no flickering but when you move to ON position car doesnt crank , seems like a relay issue. Battery voltage shows as 11.3-11.6. I disconnect negative battery terminal let sit for 5-10 mins then still no difference. Then I think since it won鈥檛 even crank maybe it鈥檚 a key immobilizer issue so my friend and I go to a grocery store and buy new key battery.Go back to car still no difference

Anyone know what ignition or crank relays or things I can check when I go back to the car tomorrow ?
Battery is from 2020 so not super old and it has drained once but those symptoms were very obvious like the key getting stuck in ignition and the dash having all these error codes and the typical starter clicks . My issue it won鈥檛 even crank.

I will also be bringing a few tools so I can actually unbolt positive terminal also so battery is completely disconnected.
 

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OK so couple of points: Battery in the key has nothing at all to do with the immobiliser. That's a passive system.

Battery voltage seems too low. It might be as simple as that (in fact that's where my money is but slightly surprised you got it running at all)

Other things that give failure:
Immobiliser: You'd have a code warning light on the dash when you try to crank
Brake switch failure. It's a dual throw as a safety feature so even if the brake lights work, you might still have an issue.
Park interlock with the transmission. From memory the ZF GT won't start unless it thinks it's in park.
Battery terminals: The negative particularly can get loose. I know you've had the terminal off but is it right hard down and properly connected?
Possibly a fuse on the top of the battery. Again surprised it started at all but....

In short unless you're lucky I think you might be looking at a tow but I'd take a new battery or a jump pack with me.....

C
 
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You can't really check a car battery by measuring voltage...It has to be voltage under load...A fully charged battery is 12.6 volts so yours is reading low so I would start there...Jason
 
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+1 on what Jason said about testing under load, BUT a 11.4 reading at ANY time indicates a battery that鈥檚 just about in a coma . While driving , the alternator鈥檚 charge will show that 13.5-13.6 reading but a bad battery won鈥檛 hold a charge for too long. It can restart although that鈥檚 more luck than anything else . Yes, a 2020 battery is indeed fairly new but you can end up with a bad cell regardless of its age..sometimes even brand new ones can have a glitch .
The Park interlock Catmanv2 mentioned was the other thing which crossed my mind, since I had that happen in two Mercedeses, but I鈥檇 still focus on the battery .
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
Thanks catman , Jason and DSGT,
So yea on the car key battery I hadn't changed it in a year and just thought at the time (was 11pm at night) as a simple idea maybe the key fobs chip (which I later remembered is that little glass pill that isn't even connected to power - so passive as you stated) wasn't reading/connecting with some ignition module due to a weak signal so decided to go nearby to at least take that out of the element since it was a 5$ fix at the time.

yea the 11.3-11.6 was just with the key in the "acc" position and then when switching to ON it would go to the low end 11.3 but again no crank or relay or starter noises. I only didn't think about the battery being too low at the time because in November when I was installing the digital dash/ aura headhunt I left all the lights and doors etc opened for the day and that def drained the battery so the symptom for that was the car barely wanting to crank and then the starter clicks , and all the EBD/AIRBAG FAULT/etc errors showing up in the middle display and then finally the key locking into the ignition barrel. None of those things were happening I was able to easily take out the key and keep putting it back to "on" position just nothing happened after.

this morning at 8 , I went to the autoparts store and bought the largest cca and AGM battery they had for the GranTurismo and went to the restaurant area which is in a larger shopping center and as fate would have it , there's actually a HOLIDAY PARADE!!!!! going on in the entire area later today so the whole parking lot and etc is blocked by police for the day(meaning I can't even move the car till tonight potentially anyway) so I had to park a few blocks away and then walk with all the tools and heavy ass battery to the parking garage which they thankfully at least they let me walk into , I changed the battery with the new one and again under no load its showing 12-12.1 volts on the dash , but same exact issue , no crank/start/no relays that I can hear. I know even "new" batteries at the auto store can be not charged fully since they sit so that kinda sucks.

I also brought the auto scanner and scanned the codes and there's basically no faults showing except 3 that I believe are unrelated (1st is saying the trunk courtesy light is out which I knew, second says the NIT isn't working / not talking via can bus which I assume is cause I have aucar headunit/ac cluster . and the third is saying headlight malfunction which is also the one I have mentioned in the past the headlight ballast error)

The codes are :
NBC(Body Computer )
NIM INTERNAL ROOF NODE
CSG SAGEMSERVOCONTROL
forgetting which was which but when clicked on the actual errors were :
C1014 warning light malfunction
B1047 luggage compartment light minimum threshold
B1010 CN CAN MESSAGE Status NIT NO SIGNAL

the CSGSAGEMSERVOCONTROL only gave a read out of the current and battery voltage and it was reading as 11.60v so to your point even the "new" battery is still not at 13/14v


I ended up deciding to take the "old" battery back home and also lugging it 3 blocks lol and will fully charge it for the rest of the day just to see if the battery tender will fully charge it and then since the car is trapped there anyway ill go back and try that "old" battery one last time and if that doesn't work will tow the car back tommorow. I popped the hood and of course there's nothing loose or leaking or etc that I could see easily. I of course verified the negative terminal plastic connector wasn't corroded or loose multiple times and the positive terminals all the thick fuses seemed to be fine and literally no corrosion or discoloration anywhere in the entire area. I pressed the brake hard multiple times and it didn't make a difference and with the key in the ACC/ON positions and brake pressed I was able to easily use the shift lever to shift to different gears so that isn't stuck, it of course gives all the EPB and brake related errors once you do that so that's again the only "new" errors that popped up on the dash.

Anything else I can check relay wise?
 

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That鈥檚 certainly discouraging, and frustrating.. no idea what going on, it seems you checked most of the possible culprits.

And not to beat a dead horse ( or a dead battery ..馃槥 ) but 11.6 reading for a brand new battery is nuts . All batteries I have purchased ( I only buy Interstate batteries for all my cars ) have read above 12.5 - 12. 6 , after being installed.
Must remember the 12 V baseline for lead / acid batteries : if a battery is fully charged at 12.7 v, 11.6 v translates to the battery operating at only 20% capacity !
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
Yea unfortunately it does seem like it is some other sort of electrical gremlin and potentially a fuse or relay or something else related is acting up. I took out that new battery and went back to the store and had them fully charge and test it and in 20 mins it charged fully to 13.04 volts and the CCA rating was showing as 1000 (which is actually higher then the stated 900 of its designation) I took it back to the car and plugged it in and it immediately went down to 12.7 volts via my multimeter and the cars dashboard showing the voltage, then I tried to start it and again no crank no solenoids clicking no relay noises and I don't think I even hear fuel pump prime (I can hear the parking relay click (where the shift lever area is when pressing down on the brake clearly now though ) I turned on the heater and tried to crank again and voltage went down to 12.5 and then I turned off the heater and tried cranking again and voltage now stayed at a consistent 12.3... this is all in the span of maybe 15 minutes. tried to scan the codes again and nothing new except the same 3 I mentioned earlier. Only thing that's consistently weird is the voltage draw seems like something is causing that huge parasitic loss which is why I was thinking of a fuse or relay stuck open/closed. I saw an old thread someone mentioned the engine ground strap could cause this issue, and it was mentioned the bolt is underneath the pass side cats area. I took a pic and reached around with my hand and the bolt was at least completely tight and from the pic there's little corrosion (not rust but white grime) but nothing I would imagine would cause this crazy an issue that suddenly. (I literally normally drive this car at least 3 days a week the past 2 and a half years...)

Anyway I am going to at least tow it home first tomorrow morning and maybe check any fuses that could be related to eft/fuelpump / ecu, then Monday I guess I have to call the dealer and be at the mercy of whenever they are available.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
well another setback almost all the local tow places said since the car is in a parking garage with low height it needs a different type of truck rather then the standard flatbed. and they said usually Sunday is only emergency crews and they highly recommended me waiting until a seasoned person with the lower truck could tow it tomorrow , so I didn't want to chance it either so I agreed so I will be having it towed directly to the dealer at this point like Jason said. I don't think there's anything else from a basic diagnostic point I can do in the Parking garage.

Since it's only 10 mins from home I went back again this morning and sure enough the voltage is showing as 11.8-11.9 volts again so something is crazily draining power. Same issue with turning the key to on position ,No crank ,no start solenoid noises. I touched the alternator while leaving key in the ON position and it stayed ice cold and couldn't smell any burning or etc.

I took the owners manual with me and took a look at the main fusebox in the engine bay and took out every Relay and or fuse related to ignition/the ecu / MAIN ANYTHING as well as the alternator fuse and etc . I know there's no way to really test the relay themselves on visuals but every single fuse looked brand new and no discoloration and none were blown and all the main relays in the engine bay that I took out looked completely brand new as well no discoloration or etc. Literally looked like the fusebox cover had never been taken off the car (even the plastic screws had no indents from a flat head)

The trunk fuses/relays all point to the sound system so I didn't bother checking those again since assumed they wouldn't create this bad of a no start issue.

The only interesting thing was the fusebox next to the steering wheel houses some interior electronic and etc fuses and actually the 2 fuses for the 2 generic obd2 codes I mentioned ( the trunk compartment light and the NIM error ) correspond with :

F31 - A/C Unit NBC Body Computer NODE
F49 - NVO (Steering wheel node CSG , CSP, NIM , NCL, RADIO, CEM, CRP, dome light moulding, windshield wiper controls)

these two fuses weren't blown but the contacts were extremely and discolored like they had been heated up at some point , so I will be replacing these while waiting for the tow truck tomorrow with two new 7.5 fuses anyway).

Also going to be doing a full charge on the new battery again as well so that the shifter will definitely move to neutral to be able to actually be moved.

fingers crossed its actually something easily diagnosed by Maserati as it was definitely a major L for me this weekend.
 
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Probably the best choice here rather than waste away more of your time...People want to check fuses and I get that, but they don't just wear out...Something has to make them blow...Keep us posted..J
 
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Good grief ! What TF could cause such a power drain ? Waiting to see what they find .
Even if the alternator is not hot, wondering if it can still have a bad diode , but based on the readings while driving it was charging at exactly the voltage it should .. A sticking starter solenoid , which might explain why it stated once but dead without even a faint clicking the other times ? That can also draw power when it鈥檚 not active . Eh, no point speculating , the solution will be found when everything is tested at the shop.

Would be great if it was that relay 鈥 DrHarboritz 鈥 noted on the other thread was the culprit .
 
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Even at 11.8 volts the car should attempt to attempt to crank...Internet diagnosis is exactly what you are paying for here..0$...In person it's just another deal and much faster and accurate..With the correct information and and scan tools you can quickly eliminate the immobilizer, the battery, etc...You can jump the starter relay and eliminate the starter and starter power circuit as an issue pretty quickly...J
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 · (Edited)
yea DSGT I'm hoping it is as simple as a random relay broke. (it will be interesting if its the actual starter or the alternator that broke at 40k miles that suddenly on a semi daily driven car with no symptoms of it but it happens of course) and as Jason said Maserati dealer and their official diagnostic tool will pick an electric error much more simply or the techs will have much more knowledge or service bulletins on the specific relays or module that go bad on this car to start with.

In a half closed parking garage in 30 degree temperatures I basically only spent 30-40 mins each time doing the simple steps I mentioned above. Something is currently definitely killing/creating a crazy battery draw with no load as both the old battery I charged fully twice and still no start/crank and Volts showed as 12.4 on full charge and was down to 11.8 in minutes. The new battery same scenario was around 12.5v and went to 11.9-12v within 15 mins with no load on it. took that one back to the auto store Saturday and they did a full charge in 20 mins and the readout showed it had over 13v and still made no difference to start the car. This morning I went again and did the fuse checks as mentioned fuses were def all good. Relays just visually looked new. my generic autel obd2 scanner all 3 days picked up no new codes just same ones I mentioned. I drive the car as I said half the week so its not a matter of it never being used and stuff just going bad from sitting , the traditional trying to start the car and cranking slowly/starter solenoid clicks and the dashboard popping up with every error never happened in this 3 day period as I was very familiar with that Maserati battery issue as it happened only a few months ago during my aucar gauge cluster/ headunit install when I left the lights/doors/etc open and shut all day.

last thing I have the new battery on the slow 2 amp full trickle charge and 6 hours later its still not showing full!
 

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I went ape sh*t trying to figure out what was causing a significant battery draw on one of my Porsches, until someone on the forum said to check the glove compartment light or the hood light, which had a habit of not always turning off when the 鈥渃lick buttons鈥 didn鈥檛 fully engage. And noticing those lights staying on is just about impossible . Well, in my case it was the hood light .
I only wish it was something that simple , but hey, stranger things ( which may never cross one鈥檚 mind ) have happened.
 

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I'm curious as to what they finally find. Based on the nature of these cars and batteries, I will never leave home without a boost box. Something you might consider to avoid the tow truck pita.
Circuit component Electronic component Electronic engineering Electrical wiring Cable
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Those digital dashes and head units use a CAN BUS emulator and my guess is that malfunctioned. Put the regular dash in see if it fires up. That probably explains the CAN error codes too.
not touching anything else until I at least have Maserati give me a diagnostic.... seems silly to waste 5 hours taking apart the dash and headunit when they are technically functioning correctly...



RayJ1 , yes in general I will be buying a mix of this battery type box and or the combo power boxes that have the built in air pumps to fill your tires also.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Another update, YOU GUYS ARE GOING TO THINK IM INSANE NOW.

so as I said yesterday night(Sunday) before I left the car I decided to take the NEW battery out (that I had already had confirmed twice at the store was in good order) and do a FULL charge with my own trickle charge at home which was my last comment. the trickle charging at 2 amps finished this morning around 10 am. I called the tow truck to set up the tow to the dealer at 1pm. at 12pm noon I drove to the garage and disconnected the "old" battery that was back in there after trying to start the car one last time of course (no crank / no start) .


After I disconnected the old battery, I then also changed those two 7.5 amp fuses with new ones :
F31 - A/C Unit NBC Body Computer NODE
F49 - NVO (Steering wheel node CSG , CSP, NIM , NCL, RADIO, CEM, CRP, dome light moulding, windshield wiper controls)

that I mentioned were discolored just for the heck of it.

Then I installed the NEW battery again which showed as 13.5v on my multimeter and on the dashboard then I went into the car and tried to start and still no crank/no start.
I took the key out and closed the door and finished putting all the trunk panels back in and got ready to call the tow guy to tell him which level I was at.

I unlock the car again and go sit in side and tried the key one last time AND IT CRANKS AND STARTS IMMEDIATELY, no hesitation at all literally as soon as I moved key to "ON" position FIRST CRANK starts and voltage jumps to 13.5 and I let the car idle for 15 mins no errors on the dash no weird noises no hesitations, then I cancel the tow and spent the last hour driving the car.

The voltage at park or idle is 13.4-13.6
as soon as you start moving and go above 30 mph and accelerate and have load it stays consistent at 13.7-13.9 .


I drove for an hour and just got home in my driveway and then turned it off. Then tried to start It again like 4 or 5 times and each time it starts the moment you move key to "ON" position..

should I just go out and buy lottery ticket? Or should I still think about taking it to a shop or dealer to check things out Jason?
 
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