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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
The following is a quote from a review on the Granturismo-S that I'd be interested in peoples thoughts on:

It’s an engine that deserves the best gearbox that the automotive industry can offer but what it gets falls far short. The result is the automotive equivalent of asking Wayne Rooney to take to the pitch wearing a pair of Manolo Blahniks. Maserati says its electro-actuated manual six-speed box – called MC-Shift – has been calibrated for quick changes but the system is nowhere near as seamless as other manufacturers’ dual-clutch setups. In normal mode, and if you’re not caning the car, you still get cavernous pauses between shifts (these flappy-paddle gearboxes work best when you’re going flat out).

At least the Maserati sounds more urgently inspiring in Sport mode but it’s still frustrating that such a brilliant engine is so rudely interrupted by this compromised gearchange. There is, though, a mode called Fast MC-Shift. This is triggered when, in Sport mode, you exceed 5500rpm with a minimum 80% throttle opening. It does improve the quality of shifts markedly, but only if the driver’s mode is set to Lunatic.


I'd previously asked a few questions on the seats as they seemed to be a consistent point of contention in a number of reviews. Not many reviews have criticised the transmission other than that quoted above so perhaps he's just a grump :)

Anyone who has had a test drive or knows something of this transmission may like to comment?

I'm only new on these forums and haven't had much time to browse but if anyone would like me to create a thread summarising the fruits of the last week or so's research tracking down all the best reviews and videos on the Granturismo-S then just let me know and I'll create a thread with all the links and add to it as I find more.

Cheers,

Ed
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)

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Thanks Ed.

The auto mode is probably not recommended, both due to possible clutch wear and the fact the software is probably not going to be good enough to make the car feel like a true auto (just like my experience in the GranSport).

Often the journos don't tell you how they tested the cars (driving conditions, which set up they were using at which point, etc) and rarely get any decent amount of time in it.

I'd say if I were to test drive my GranSport in auto mode, non sport and in traffic, I'd be rather unhappy as the gearbox struggles to cope with it*. But then again, if that was the benchmark for my judgement, I'd buy an auto cruiser, not an Italian sport GT ;)




*That's why I always have it in manual, sport mode :cool:
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
Fair enough - I'm in such a habit now of cruising along in my sporty auto tiptronic coupes (like the Merc V8s) that it's becoming a problem :) Very much out of practice on manual - I'm a motoring enthusiast but not a real hardcore driver as you can probably tell.

If I'm going to spend this sort of money I want the "S" look ,engine and exhaust system so the regular Granturismo isn't an option - unless I take a gamble on them bringing out a fully auto version of either the Granturismo or Granturismo-S at a later date with the same engine/exhaust. Not sure I want to take that gamble and miss out . Perhaps as you say it's better I get myself back into some miles on a manual , buy the Ganturismo-S and stick to manual trans with it.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Ed
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
Another little quote for you about the Ferrari California - this sounds like the sort of transmission the Granturismo-S could do with.

Dual clutch transmission
The seven-speed Dual Clutch Transmission (DCT) is another Ferrari first for the California and, ideally for a GT car, promises drivers the best of both worlds: the convenience and smoothness of an automatic and, at the press of a button, the aggression and shift speed of Ferrari’s ‘F1’ automated manual transmission (AMT).

Ferrari’s technical partner on the new transmission is Getrag-Ford, the company that helped create BMW’s M-DCT, recently launched in the M3 Convertible (see page 66). Insiders say that development of the Ferrari DCT has taken much longer than anticipated (it was originally scheduled to appear in the 612 Scaglietti).

The adoption of the DCT is almost entirely positive. It can behave like a conventional auto but is more economical and will be untroubled by stop/start city driving, unlike an AMT which can wear out its clutch plate rapidly. Then, at a twist of the steering wheel ‘manettino’, the DCT can become as sporty as F1 Superfast, offering shifts with minimal torque interruption which, in league with seven ratios, will offer better acceleration than the six-speed F1 box.

The only downside is that the DCT is about 10kg heavier than the F1 AMT, but this is turned to an advantage by the California’s transaxle layout. The front-mid-mounted V8 is connected to the transaxle via a torque tube, with the gearbox on the far side of the rear axle line, helping weight distribution. Like DCTs in transverse engine/front-drive applications, the Ferrari unit is a compact three-shaft design – good packaging in the tail of the California is crucial with a folding hard-top to accommodate.





From what I can gather the Maserati is a twin disk clutch to reduce wear etc..........not a dual clutch . From what I can fathom Maserati may have favoured the twin disk over the DSG because they often cause lurching high revs and clutch slips when given a workout?

Doesn't stop articles about the Granturismo S calling it a slushbox auto (which to me means a standard auto) , a DSG etc.......one road test expert called it an auto with paddles.


Cheers,

Ed
 

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When the GranTurismo came out I bought it right away .. because of this beautiful body and the emotions involved. I did not bother because of the autobox it came with!

I do not regret my decision so far. Especially using the sport button, this car feels sporty enough for me .... even without having CC/F1 "semi-manual" gear change (saying hello to Michael Schumacher) :)

The CC transmission to come with the GT S will be already outdated compared to the much more superior DCT already available with M3 and the new Porsche 997/2.
From what is being published so far, Porsche's DCT which is called PDK - is absolutely seamless during gear changes. But much more important: DCT gives better acceleration, 12% less fuel consumption and 18% less CO2 emission! ... while at the same time Maserati is moving in the wrong direction with the GT S!

Technically the GT S is the first verdict not to benefit anymore from Ferrari... looking at their California to come!

I will relax and enjoy my GT (without S) for the next couple of years! Hope, Maserati will improve on "under the skin" technology the years to come!


edit: "reduction in fuel consumtion and less CO" come from the new DI engines, and not the PDK, sorry for that!
 

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I don't think Maserati is going in the wrong direction. Maserati is simply told to use slightly older Ferrari technology for its cars, as to not get too close to Ferrari, so they can't use the dual clutch system that Ferrari has finally come up with.

The California is based on a GranTurismo chassis but it'll have the latest technology from Ferrari. In truth, the California could have truly been a Maserati. Anyway, that's slightly off topic.
 

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Another little quote for you about the Ferrari California - this sounds like the sort of transmission the Granturismo-S could do with.

Dual clutch transmission
The seven-speed Dual Clutch Transmission (DCT) is another Ferrari first for the California and, ideally for a GT car, promises drivers the best of both worlds: the convenience and smoothness of an automatic and, at the press of a button, the aggression and shift speed of Ferrari’s ‘F1’ automated manual transmission (AMT).

Ferrari’s technical partner on the new transmission is Getrag-Ford, the company that helped create BMW’s M-DCT, recently launched in the M3 Convertible (see page 66). Insiders say that development of the Ferrari DCT has taken much longer than anticipated (it was originally scheduled to appear in the 612 Scaglietti).

The adoption of the DCT is almost entirely positive. It can behave like a conventional auto but is more economical and will be untroubled by stop/start city driving, unlike an AMT which can wear out its clutch plate rapidly. Then, at a twist of the steering wheel ‘manettino’, the DCT can become as sporty as F1 Superfast, offering shifts with minimal torque interruption which, in league with seven ratios, will offer better acceleration than the six-speed F1 box.

The only downside is that the DCT is about 10kg heavier than the F1 AMT, but this is turned to an advantage by the California’s transaxle layout. The front-mid-mounted V8 is connected to the transaxle via a torque tube, with the gearbox on the far side of the rear axle line, helping weight distribution. Like DCTs in transverse engine/front-drive applications, the Ferrari unit is a compact three-shaft design – good packaging in the tail of the California is crucial with a folding hard-top to accommodate.
Ed,

Can you post the link to this quote please?
 

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Maserati may have different software calibrations than Ferrari, but lets be realistic for a moment. The transmission in the GranTurismo S is the same as available in the F612 and F699. The F430 Scuderia has the latest and fastest version of this transmission system, but I don't think anyone can argue that the intended mission of the Scud and the GT S are the same. The point is that one can't realistically call the above mentioned Ferrari's outdated - not yet anyway. So why is the GT S considered out dated hardware?

The California's and M3 DCT are brand new to the two manufacturers. Getrag has licensed the technology from Borg (per Borg-Warner website). There will probably be some hiccups in the first year of production.

How can a reviewer say that the GT S has the wrong transmission - that it should have gotten the Ferrari DCT? Excuse me, but the California isn't even in fricking production yet. And if the reviewer wanted a seamless AT, guess what, there is one in the standard GranTurismo.
 

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Fair enough - I'm in such a habit now of cruising along in my sporty auto tiptronic coupes (like the Merc V8s) that it's becoming a problem :) Very much out of practice on manual - I'm a motoring enthusiast but not a real hardcore driver as you can probably tell.

If I'm going to spend this sort of money I want the "S" look ,engine and exhaust system so the regular Granturismo isn't an option - unless I take a gamble on them bringing out a fully auto version of either the Granturismo or Granturismo-S at a later date with the same engine/exhaust. Not sure I want to take that gamble and miss out . Perhaps as you say it's better I get myself back into some miles on a manual , buy the Ganturismo-S and stick to manual trans with it.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Ed
Ed,

Look at this video by Fifth Gear. This QP has the same gearbox as the Maser GS/Coupe-Spyder CC, F360, F575. The QP Sport GT had the latest software updates on the tranny. As mentioned before the GranTurismo S has the latest generation hardware version.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ekfy9Bre1sA
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
Thanks for that link Bcube - very helpful. I assume the clutch in the QP was a single disk? and that the smaller twin disk clutch set up in the GS will reduce the clutch wear issues to some extent too.

The grab from the Ferrari California review came from here:

http://www.evo.co.uk/news/evonews/222123/ferrari_california_in_depth.html


I've been very busy scouring the net for GS reviews and related matters. I have now read/seen around a dozen reviews of the GS and there are now a few amongst them that say the trans works okay . It's pretty clear it has the odd dud gear change but it was never going to be quite as good as a torque converter. One of the reviews also mentions that it takes a bit of a feel for the car to get it to work smoothly in Auto mode - it works better with a little burst of throttle just before the expected change.

For those interested I've found out that Top Gear magazine July issue has a review of the Granturismo-S. I'll be trying to get my hands on it over the weekend.

Cheers,

Ed
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 · (Edited)
Thanks Bigfoot - good vid . If it wasn't already of interest it'd be worth watching just for the "teach old cogs new tricks" line :)

Is there anything in what Clarkson was on about with parking?
Cheers,

Ed
 

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Thanks Bigfoot - good vid . If it wasn't already of interest it'd be worth watching just for the "teach old cogs new tricks" line :)

Is there anything in what Clarkson was on about with parking?

Cheers,

Ed
Reverse is a bit painful since you need to rev the car a bit to move it and I always worry I may overshoot it (which I never did!). Yes automatic cars are easier to park, but if one buys this sort of cars for the ease of parking … ;)

Concidentally, I think Formula Dynamics' drive-by-wire enhancement module may make parking a whole lot easier given it improves the throttle sensitivity and clutch engagement.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 · (Edited)
Also just discovered that one of the local finance mags down here took the trip to Italy and reviewed the GS a couple of weeks ago. I can't link to the article as it's a subscription site but he said this of the transmission:

The new system is much better than some earlier Fiat group robotised manuals, where drivers and passengers would lurch forward when the system disengaged a gear to make a change. There is still a trace of this hesitation in the GranTurismo S, but it is much shorter than the hesitation experienced with an ordinary manual gearbox.

Sounds fine . Was overall a very positive article and that's from someone used to my local conditions.

Ed
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 · (Edited)
Oops - still finding my way around. Updated my locaton in profile - based in Melbourne, Australia. That same article quoted a likely price of $330k before options - yikes, well more than double the US cost. .............shows you what we pay in extra taxes.

Cheers,

Ed
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
:) - that's where the speed limiter can come in handy with the CLK550. Will have to watch myself for sure. The best we get down here is 110kmh on some freeways.

Ed
 
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