[eddievanhalen]

Hi M! - the DB9 is the only other car I would consider. I'm looking into them and the reputation of the (once again) one and only dealer in our state for Aston Martin. There's a few demos around at decent prices.

Having said that if I'm going to spend 300-350 k+ on a car upgrade from a fast & reliable Merc it really has to "do it" for me in terms of looks and sound. Otherwise I may as well keep my CLK 5.5L V8 which is around the same speed as both of them , sounds good, more gadgets and very reliable.The DB9 might have the sound/engine but it just doesn't quite thrill me in the looks department like the GT does and also doesn't have usable back seats which , to me, is another huge advantage of the GT and CLK. I've never seen a car I like the look of better than the GT-S and to have proper rear seats is a massive bonus with such a sleek design.


All I can do is keep asking questions and researching, test driving and read other people's experiences with Maserati - hopefully by posting my adventures it might help others as well.

It's a shame the Italians can't seem to get their act together in the quality control department , although the Maser dealer told me that German components are starting to creep in (lights etc........).

Anyway......we'll see. I'm looking for excuses to by the GT-S but on the other hand I'm not going to spend the dollars without doing thorough research.

Cheers,

Ed

 

[BigFoot]

Erm ... I have loads of examples of MBs and other German krautwagons going pearshaped in a big way.

The Aston will be a real gamble I would have thought, given they are living on borrowed time and have historically been quite unreliable.

Fact is, if you want reliability, you have to buy Japanese. Simple as that.

 

[M!]

early DB9's have their problems as well. get a brand new DB9 might be a better option.

 

[waba]

@Ed

I own a GT since December 2007. I have 15000 km on the clock. First I loved this car just because of its great looks. Now I also love it because if its great quality!

Right from the beginning I found out some small flaws:
1. The strip or trim (?) (between windows and roof) was not perfectly aligned
2. The lid of the trunk was not well aligned either, as both joints did not work properly
3. The window sealing (rubber strip) on the driver's side was not perfectly embedded into the frame
4. The classi Maserati clock got some entrapped humidity

... The car went back to the dealer for two weeks. I had an identical GT in meantime. Later, everything was fixed perfectly.

Since then I had no problems at all, hope it will stay this way.

 

[Bcube]

Ed,

I've read your threads on researching the car, and I congratulate you on being so thorough.

But, (there is always a But, isn't there?), I am not reading or seeing any appreciation, understanding, (uuugggghhh, I'm going to say it) PASSION, nor even a hint of curiosity for what the brand represents. You are approaching this car purely as a mode of transportation that happens to be built in Italy. With this perception, I truly say - with non-arrogant and non-malicious intent - that you should stick with the Germans or Japanese. Because I am afraid you will be sorely disappointed with the Italian way of building automobiles.

This is not to say you shouldn't have certain expectations of reasonable reliability. But what is your reaction to knowing that Ferrari/Maserati quality and reliability has taken a quantum leap forward in the past five years? And yet, they are still behind their Japanese and German competition, especially in the area of electrics and electronic gadgetry.

Ed, are you interested in Sculpture, Style, Sound at all? The very essence of any Ferrari, Maserati, Ducati, MV Augusta, etc. I know this sounds like a marketing pitch - but with Italians - the ART of Living, guides, influences, and dominates their Life.

Me no write too good - so I'll try to give examples that might demonstrate what I am trying to convey.

Last weekend, the wife - an art buff - did some research on Giovanni Lorenzo Bernini sculptures. Turns out he was a student of Jean Boulogne, later known as Giovanni Bologna. Giambologna was highly influenced by the sculptures and works of Michelangelo. (Some of you may already see the connection...) Giambologna executed the sculpture of Neptune on the Fontana di Nettuno in the Piazza Nettuno in the city of Bolgona, Italy in 1565. In Neptune's right hand is his Trident - which Mario Maserati used to represent the newly formed car company in 1914. That emblem on our Masers' grill can be directly traced back to the 1500's when Michelangelo, da Vinci, et al, were bending and forging the future path of civilization.

goddamn!

Ed, what is the historical significance of the Symbol on the grill of your Lexus? Do you know who designed your Merc? A few months back on this website, we had a short discussion of the significance of the Design Houses on our modern Masers. Bizarre, yes?

When the wife and I first got our Spyder, we noticed that the inner wheelwells were lined with felt. It was weird to the touch - this caused the wife to exclaimed: "This car has hairy armpits just like Italian women!" Ed, when was the last time you touched the inner wheel wells of your Mercedes?

Sorry for such the long post and boring everyone, but I guess it all boils down to simply this: If the right side of your brain isn't talking to your left side: Then stick with the Companies' products that promote technological precision and perfection.

 

[morsimon]

Well said !

Bcube - Great post - the Bloomberg guy would only have needed to read your post to find (one of) the real answer(s) to what makes people desire a Maserati.

Morsimon

 

[Bcube]

Thanks for the kind words, Morsimon. And I haven't even been drinking!
Fortunately my left brain has beaten my right back into submission. Unfortunately, the above post now kinda of reads like a load of crap and doesn't really help Ed.

So, hopefully, I can do better.

Ed,

The last three or four GranTurismos I looked at (2008 builds) don't seem to have the lower sill waviness. However, the cars were also dark colors - a couple of blacks, a dark gray, and a dark red. Thus, either the newer models have been fixed or the dark colors hide the imperfections. Of course, the GT S won't have this problem.

The brake switch is the first I've heard of this issue. Also noted is that "360C" mentions the problem several times in your thread examples. So, the GT doesn't have X amount of switch issues, but rather "360C" has mentioned his switch issue X amount of times. There is a difference. (See, I really did read your post). To be fair to "360C", he did comment that all his other electronic issues were related to this switch. And his other non-electrical issues were caused by Dealership and the Freight Forwarder.

I don't know how Maserati is going to solve the apparent issue of a flexing pedal box that is crushing this plastic switch. And this problem may not ever be a problem in the USA...the GT is originally built as LH Drive. Nor do I have any clue of potential further quality issues due to the right hand conversion. Hopefully, if this is more than a one-off on this particular car, the combined consumer pressure of Aus, Uk, and Japan markets will light a spark under the Modena engineers.

The transmission debate of "F1/SMG versus DSG/DCT versus Automatic versus MT" will go on forever. So based on reliability history as available for the Granturismo: The german ZF Automatic is the same unit used in BMW, Jaguars, Bentleys, Aston Martins and a few others. Whereas the F1 System is used in Ferrari (since 1997), Maserati, and AMV8 Vantage, and has direct lineage to Ferrari Formula One racing. (Ha Ha, ya can't escape right brain)

Good luck in your search.

 

[waba]

Nice story Bcube!

You are completely right, there is always something else which is much more important than purely transportation, riding an Italian car!

BUT (as you said):
Based on my humple experience the Maseratis of today do not need to be defendend because of lack of quality. My car is just perfect - a Mec, I drove many of them, a BMW or a Porsche are not any better in quality!

I am a German so I think it may sound more authentic, I hope: German Cars still have the positive image having best quality but most of the time they do not deserve it!

Vice versa, Maseratis do not deserve to be thrown into the box of nice looking toys - but quality and reliability is something else!

I am convinced the Italians made their homework right!

 

[I love pizza]

All the cars over the years I passed on that I've regret not buying have always been Italian. The cars I most regret selling in my life are all Italian. I currently own a Black Series AMG that is probably the most exciting, true drivers car that Benz has ever made, has been given tons of praise and yet I'm considering letting it go months after I purchased it to buy a lesser powered GranTurismo S. Some might think its a dumb decision, but it all comes down to the GranTurismo S gets my mojo going. Its like being a single guy and having a chance to score with a supermodel and passing it up for ol' reliable Helga. If you buy the Granturismo, you'll finally know what its all about and heck if you don't like it, sell it, but you won't go on for years wishing you should have bought it when you bought the BMW or Benz instead. Whatever you decide to buy, BMW M6, Benz AMG or Maserati, honestly, you really can't go wrong, they all have their pluses and minusus, you just ran across some current and former owners that know how great Maserati ownership can be. Thats my positive spin.

 

[eddievanhalen]

Thanks for the reply everyone and Bcube in particular but I think you're being a little bit unfair in your first post. Stuff like this :

"You are approaching this car purely as a mode of transportation that happens to be built in Italy."

is absolute rubbish!!

Just for the record every second post I've made I've talked about how I want the Maser for its style and sound - that's despite the fact the brand has a poor history of reliability , the car has less luxuries than my existing car , costs twice as much and is no faster.!! Why on Earth do you think I'd even be considering trading in my (so far) very reliable CLK for a GT-S if it hadn't grabbed my attention in a big,big way?? Before I saw and heard the GT-S and fell in love with it I had no intention of getting a new car of any description in the next 5 years. I've done nothing in my spare time but read about Maserati and the Granturismo for the last month...............surely that's some sort of passion, yes?? I could buy almost any car I wanted to but have never seen anything from Merc,BMW Lambo, Ferrari,Bugatti, Aston etc..........that "does it for me"in the looks department at all until I saw the Maser. The DB9 is the closest runner up but I still find myself drawn back to the GT whenever I consider the DB9. In actual fact none of the previous Masers have done much for me either but this new GT is the nicest car I've ever seen !! I'm happy to admit I have a passion for this model but not necessarily the Maserati/Ferrari/Fiat brand as a whole.

"Passion" is ofcourse a word that comes up a lot with regard to Italian cars and it seems to me that it's an ongoing excuse to make/buy very expensive good looking cars with bad build quality. I understand the concept of passion towards the marque/design/history but not the resignation to and/or acceptance of poor build, service and reliability. The two should not be mutually exclusive, especially once they start branching out into GTs rather than pure sports cars. Maserati seem to be on the path towards doing something about this and I hope it continues. They'll certainly steal many customers of other brands if they succeed which I suppose ironically might reduce the prestige of the brand if they meet the new demand with increased sales.

I also understand that Maserati has made great leaps forward in reliability over the last 5 years and that's one of the reasons I considered looking at them - my homework is just starting to make me doubt a little whether that leap is enough for what I expect when I spend $360k on a daily driver. Daily driver status comes with some sort of expectation for reliability, moreso than if it was just a car garaged for show and the odd bit of fun on the weekend.

I invest and trade the stockmarket for a living which means I spend all day researching things. I suppose after training my mind for the last decade to look at the downside first when making a large investment in a company/property (no matter how much I love it), it starts to become habit and comes across to some extent in my posts as pessimistic, but I wouldn't be spending all this time if I hadn't developed a passion for the car. I work a 15 hr day six to seven days a week managing my investments and don't spend this sort of time on just anything! Once I have done my research and accepted the downside risks as acceptable , then I go for it!

In terms of 360c and his problems he mentions at one stage that all the electrical problems are related to the brake switch issue but there are references to other system issues earlier on (I only linked to a few of his posts) - he contradicted himself a couple of times and I think was being a bit careful at stages in case the dealer was reading. There are a whole lot of other issues I've uncovered with the GPS/hard drive (which apparently were fixed with a software upgrade) , the boot opening mechanism - with the battery in the boot ain't the best idea etc............ One of the reasons I read his posts with such interest was that I recognised my relative inexperience with Italian cars and yet here was a guy in my local area with 25 years experience owning all sorts of Italian cars and living with their quirks and he was miserable after owning his GT for a few months and with the whole experience from the day he ordered it. I'd be dumb not to have warning bells ringing.

I'm not here to bag Maserati at all!!! I'm here to learn mostly and share my experiences. I think it's best I take a rest from posting and read/learn as I'm obviously upsetting a few people who love the brand and look at things with more passion , which in exotic car circles can often = less objectivity. I'm all for passion but I also expect some semblence of value. I get very nervous after doing a few days research and finding that's enough time to uncover multiple people (maybe 15% of all owners in my area) who've spent 300k+ on the car I'm looking to buy and have found it's making their life a misery - I make no apology for that.

I am not in a position to understand the history of Maserati to the same extent as the enthusiasts on this forum and don't make any apologies for that either- most people in Australia haven't even heard of Maserati and at my relatively young age (just turned 34 ) I don't have the experience of exotics that many of you do. I've crammed a lot into my 34 years to get to the point where I'm retired/self-employed and haven't had much time to study the history of Italian cars but I am starting now and putting a lot of my spare time into it. I would probably be right in saying however that I have more experience with exotic/expensive cars than 99.9% of people my age and 99.9% of those on this forum when they were my age. You have to start somewhere.

The time I have spent on Maseratilife has helped me get an appreciation of the brand , moreso than if I'd just done my own homework , so thanks for that.

Ciao

Ed


PS In terms of the trannys I can understand the appeal to some people of F1 transmissions...the aura and all and the driving experience. However for GT cars (including the GT-S) I don't see the sense in having a racing transmission in an everyday driver if it's going to spend as much time in a workshop as an F1 car , which seems to be the story in many cases. I tend to think the ZF auto (which is a great tranny) should at least be an option on the GT-S as it is for the DB9. . It will keep people like me happier (and after all they are trying to steal customers from Merc) and will improve their rep with reliability for sure.

 

[Bcube]

Ed,
Stick around. I don't think anyone on this site is offended or upset by your comments. You obviously give thought to your posts - I, at least, never got the impression that you had some obscure agenda of badmouthing Maseratis.

And after my ramblings, I appreciate you not calling me "Septic"

 

[M!]

if this is the nicest car you have seen and you have passion and money for it, just get one. forget about the reliability issue. you are working 15 hr a day 6-7 day a week anyways, you would not be missing it much if it were at the shop. further, i m sure you can keep another car besides the GT-S daily driver.

 

[eddievanhalen]

if this is the nicest car you have seen and you have passion and money for it, just get one. forget about the reliability issue. you are working 15 hr a day 6-7 day a week anyways, you would not be missing it much if it were at the shop. further, i m sure you can keep another car besides the GT-S daily driver.

Hopefully the 15 hr days will end soon - have had a very busy year and I certainly won't be keeping that up for much longer . The idea was that the Maser would inspire me to get out there more and "smell the roses" which won't be easy on a hoist

I do have the money for it but I still have certain expectations in terms of quality. Until I build my new house I only have a 2 car garage and don't want 3 cars. And maybe it's just me but I would like to think I could buy a $360k GT car without needing a backup!

I understand your point but still find it hard to handover $360k for a gorgeous, sweet sounding lemon no matter how much I'm in love with it . I'll keep on learning as much as I can but starting to think it may be safer to wait a couple of years until I'm in a position to have a "back up car" in a bigger garage as you suggest and then I can flick on the Maser if it's a pain. And hopefully they'll have ironed out a few bugs, given it the ZF tranny by then and sent it to Jenny Craig to help performance.

I've said my piece on reliability anyway - no need to repeat it. We all have our own expectations in terms of reliability and none of us is "right".

Cheers,

Ed

 

[M!]

the root of the problem is where are you living and how much you have to pay for a "GT car". there are many places in the world where you can "invest and trade the stockmarket for a living " and "smell the roses".

it will be an easier decision if you are only paying 1/2 of what you would pay.

 

[eddievanhalen]

Agreed - if we were only talking $150k US I'd be far happier to just take the gamble and see what happens.

Ed

 

[iufan993]

Driving impressions?

There was a GranTurismo S here in Charleston this week, then it was transported to another dealer. My good friend drove it and his impressions, especially of the improved torque and new transmission, were very favorable. Sticker was $136K and it was not for sale. Apparently it was making rounds at various dealerships. They told him first delivery for a new order was November.

Has anybody else driven one here in the US?

 

[xraygun]

360K Australian Dollars for a GT-S? wow. Ouch. May I ask how much they get for a 599 there?

 

[I love pizza]

I'm hoping to speak with some Maserati North America people this weekend. Going to the F1 Clienti/FXX event in Mont Tremblant. If I find anything out about the car, I'll pass it on.

 

[eddievanhalen]

360K Australian Dollars for a GT-S? wow. Ouch. May I ask how much they get for a 599 there?

Hi xraygun - to give you an idea there's currently a 599 Fiorano 2007 demo for sale in Sydney for $650,000 which is almost the same in $US with the Aussie dollar @ 98c US as we speak.

Add stamp duty and other government charges and you'd be very close to $700,000.

Ed

 

[M!]

Hi xraygun - to give you an idea there's currently a 599 Fiorano 2007 demo for sale in Sydney for $650,000 which is almost the same in $US with the Aussie dollar @ 98c US as we speak.

Add stamp duty and other government charges and you'd be very close to $700,000.

Ed

the 599 is a better buy. skip the GT-S.