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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
Do you know hard it is to do stuff like this? Oh, just fabricate a clutch pedal assembly for a car that never came in a manual...It is a ton of work...Everything you thought you needed to do and then add 50 more things...The software/hardware part of it is just another deal in itself...Is it possible?...Sure, if you are a Prince of a foreign country...Is it feasible...No, not really...Jason
Eh, what are we talking, $10k-$15k+ to have a one of a kind? I'd be a player for sure. Obviously I'd do the programming myself.

He has another video of the shift linkages etc. Seems extremely straight forward.
 

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Now, if only I could understand what the poster is saying Does anyone know what language?

Also, we need details!

The shifter throw does not look really short. But I can only imagine what substantial work the project entailed... and for that, certainly kudos are owing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #24 ·
I will try. It was a pretty crappy quality video, but you can clearly see he attached that shifter you see inside the car, on a bench when they were testing the linkage and setup. I've seen plenty of other f1 trans go through a conversion.

Many say that the zf trans or DS trans is best as it stands, I fully 100% disagree.
 

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Well, what I have heard is that the Graziano 'box is a fairly notchy - by way of feel - 'box. When it is motivated by the actuator, you cannot, of course, feel that notchiness. The clutch throw (and that is a trade-off between the force at the clutch pedal versus the throw ( I BELIEVE)) is fairly long. And so the manual variants, evident in the Coupe GT and Spyder GT's - are not a really, really pleasing drive. The DS version, embodied in the 2007 model QP-V Sport GT is very near the top of the F1 transmission development, being SOFAST3+ and also in the Sport GT (M.Y. 2007) also having additional software tweaks. It runs the CFC301F.64 TCU... So if driven well, of course in Manual, and preferably in Sport, it can shift pretty smoothly.

WHen a manual transmission car has: a close ratio set of gears; has a longish throw shifter (and possibly a hard-to-shift, i.e. high effort shifter) and when the clutch throw is long... there is Lots of Shifting required, and it is not so easy to shift. So, it may be that the conversion ends up being that way.

This is why I say that the latest and best variant of the DS system, in the 2007 Sport GT, may be a better way to go.

I say (and I may be the only one) that I still think that under some conditions that latest variant of DS actually does double-declutch, and if it indeed does, then it does so super accurately and super fast. And so if my theory is true, then truly the DS system so embodied really cannot be beat for technical accuracy and speed.

I KNOW speed, etc is not the only thing. You are talking to a guy who has FOUR of six cars as manuals, I love them. But just saying...
 

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Discussion Starter · #26 ·
I definitely respect your opinions and facts. I just feel that I could take advantage of this car much better if I had full 100% control of the shifting.
 

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Hey, for sure. Nothing like double-declutching / heeling and toeing. The ULTIMATE for manual transmission control. It is NIRVANA when it goes right! And there is nothing that compares to the Logic Module that is your brain, that can see the road in front of you and compute what the transmission should be doing. You want to start in 2nd gear, shift to 4th, etc... on a down-gradient... you do it. I have such a close-ratio 'box in one of my cars - a Mazda6 - that it happily does this, all to the benefit of gas mileage, smoothess, etc... An automated system would never be able to do this.
 

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Just as a mental exercise; The pedal box for a 6mt car will cost about 2k. The cc pedal box is the same except that the pivots for the clutch have not been machined. Then one or the other adapted to a QP. A shifter will have to be fabbed up, I not seen a used one for sale ever.
After that, longer cables would need to be made, the transaxle shifter acquired, the master cylinder installed with some type of reservoir connected. At that point the ecu will be looking for signals from the tcu to allow the car to start and run.
When I built a Megasquirt years ago, the first thing I made was called an emulator. It was used on the completed Megasquirt to emulate the outputs of various sensors ( o2, tps, mat, map, rpm, etc) for tuning. It might be possible to build such a device to provide (false) signals to the ecu, but I think you would need to know the parameters from the tcu. All in all a daunting prospect. That's my 2 cents.
 

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It certainly would be interesting to find out how the individual in the Youtube video did that.

Interesting that you indicated that the pedal box for a 4200 CC is more or less the same as that for a 6MT version. Having said that you do intimate that the basic pedal box for a 4200 may not actually fit a QP-V - that never had provision for same... or maybe the QP-V DOES use the 4200 pedal box. Aside from the electronics (which I certainly do not minimize) - the pedal box is a big point for most people.

I would think that both the shifter from a 4200 coupe GT or a 4200 Spyder GT - and the shift mechanism at the Graziano 'box - would be available from a Wrecker / Breaker.
 

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Just as a mental exercise; The pedal box for a 6mt car will cost about 2k. The cc pedal box is the same except that the pivots for the clutch have not been machined. Then one or the other adapted to a QP. A shifter will have to be fabbed up, I not seen a used one for sale ever.
After that, longer cables would need to be made, the transaxle shifter acquired, the master cylinder installed with some type of reservoir connected. At that point the ecu will be looking for signals from the tcu to allow the car to start and run.
When I built a Megasquirt years ago, the first thing I made was called an emulator. It was used on the completed Megasquirt to emulate the outputs of various sensors ( o2, tps, mat, map, rpm, etc) for tuning. It might be possible to build such a device to provide (false) signals to the ecu, but I think you would need to know the parameters from the tcu. All in all a daunting prospect. That's my 2 cents.
I have to wonder if the PCM from a 4200 Coupé or Spyder 6MT would work in a QP-V that has been physically converted to 6 MT? I think some changes were made for the QP- V, though, that boosted the h.p. from that of the 4200 in the Coupé or Spyder...

Would this solve the issue of a missing TCU (NCR)?
 

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Discussion Starter · #33 ·
I watch his channel. What's interesting is that isn't the f430 and 360 trans very similar?

I say this because the shift linkage and some other parts here resemble what I saw on the video for the conversion.

A manual conversion for a DS to full manual would absolutely bring new life into the older QP's. It would also open a new market of those afraid of the DS trans.
 

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A manual conversion for a DS to full manual would absolutely bring new life into the older QP's. It would also open a new market of those afraid of the DS trans.
Yeah, totally agree, I already emailed them asking if this possible for the QP.
 

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Ok, pic 1 is a 6mt pedal box

pic 2 is a CC pedal box
6mt pedal box.jpg
cc pedal box.jpg


pic 3 is a QPV pedal box
QPV pedal box.jpg


Might be a bit difficult to adapt CC or 6mt to a QPV. As far as the transaxles are concerned, the internals are to some extent interchangeable, but case is completely different.
 

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Hang-on, are you saying that the Graziano case, say, for a 4200 Coupé or Spyder with 6mt is totally different than that for a CC car?
 

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I imagine the bosses for support of the actuator... most-forward, and for the single bracket most-rearward would not be used in a 6mt car... but other than this, why would there be any difference? I don't know how the 6mt shift cables are connected to the transaxle though.
 

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