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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Let's talk fully manual transmissions...

I have seen a few QP V owners that converted their duoselect transmissions to full manual trans. If you say it can't be done, I will come slap you 馃槅.

Anyways, whose done it? How hard was it? Cost?
 

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This is interesting... but i) the QP V never came with a clutch pedal so some under-dash work would be required... and I hasten to point out that that would not be easy, I believe, nor would it be fun; and ii) how would the engine drive computer react to not having a DS to interface with? By comparison, the coupe and the spyder and the Gransport coupe and spyder DID, I believe come with 6MT... though much less prevalent than the CC versions. Could that pedal ass'y be spliced-in to the QP-V???

To be certain, a conversion like that might give the car a longer time horizon re being reasonable to keep on the road (in terms of continuing to find spares for the car, like the NCR (TCM), etc.)... but we must also remember that in Europe in essence the DuoSelect or the MC Shift did have a decent enough model year run, and many of the components are shared so parts may NOT be an issue.

There is also the issue of how many Tech's are current, still, with the F1/DS/CC/MC Shift system. Fewer, it appears, these days... but by comparison there are now some reasonable for a DIY person to buy systems out there that have full F1 system functionality. So that counterbalances, perhaps, the argument.

Also, there is the question of the character of the car. The 6MT is a close-ratio box... and in essence there is a lot of "monkey-motion" required to get it to go down the road, at varying speeds... i.e. a lot of clutch in . clutch-out, and the typical throw of the clutch pedal is long, and the throw-length of the gearshift is not particularly short. The DuoSelect by comparison is (and here, people would poo-poo me) relatively easy... I say this because some folks will NOT vary the throttle position in shifting manually. Fair enough... The DS is easy to make the car go down the road. The manual is a lot of work, by comparison. What works best re the intended audience of the car?

I like manual transmissions, but in my estimation the DS is a better manual transmission for the QP-V than is a 6MT.

Do you agree?
 

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There are a couple of other boogie-men in the closset, as regards the QP-V... at least in my opinion.

i) genre of car. A QP-V, by way of the target audience, is/was really intended as a daily driver... an alternative to a Mercedes, say, or a large BMW. It really was not intended so much to be a weekend "sportscar". As time goes on, fuel is becoming more and more dear. Right now in Vancouver, BC (which of course is NOT representative of the balance of the USA) - fuel is about $4.50 US per US gallon. And that is regular unleaded, not premium. The QP-V is not exactly an economy car, when a person would want to drive it as a daily. It is not like a Coupe or a Spyder, or a GS or a GranTurismo... more weekend cars. It DOES however, have a very nice aesthetic.... but it is NOT a weekend Sportscar.

ii) I believe that the DS (just like any manual) has to be babied to transaxle operating temp. I would say it benefits from being operated in Normal (versus Sport) until at least it is a bit warm. That makes it, in my view, a kind of exotic... in that it has to be babied and not driven short distances. So, depending on your commute distance, it becomes a bit more impractical.. Yes, it depends on how hot the ambient temp is, where you live, but.... still a bit of an exotic.

iii) the sticky plastics in the QP-V... are a lot of square inches of plastic. And to properly deal with the issue, it takes, what, $3000 to $4000 US? i.e. a LASTING solution?

iv) durability / longevity of the parts... Window regulators, trunk latching mechanism, parking brakes, engine mounts, front and rear ball joint COVERS (let alone the ball joints); suspension bushings. I could go on... but you kind of get the idea? Not a car for a daily, it seems to me, unless you are pretty well-healed.

v) the interior leather is VERY, VERY, FRAGILE, in two locations in particular. The B Pillar trim... I see all kinds of barked-leather B Trims; and the rear console corners. I challenge folks to find a car with no barked corners... Not a car for the kids (or in fact many adults) to just tumble-in to.

Sorry, I DO like the car, and I also point out that a 2007 Sport GT... with its SOFAST3+ Duoselect software, and its further 35% enhancement in shift speed versus a non Sport GT 2007 model - is a pretty compelling deal. It seems everyone is afraid of the DS... yet if you know how to manage it, it CAN be managed and it can be pretty darned reliable... at least the DS system can be.

The rest of the car, you really have got to love it. Easy to love but vexing to keep on top of?
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Well, you raise a lot of valid points. But, here's my point. It would be amazing. Lol.

This conversion uses the same exact DS trans, just converted to full manual.


Watch the vid.
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Ah, the link won't work without being a member. I will find a way to record it.
 

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Looks like an interesting conversion. I opined in a long ago thread that converting an MC shift GT to 3 pedal would be fun, but I can't see how you would get past the TCU removal and communication with the ECU. But hey, too each their own. :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I am sure that if you converted your GT to manual, you could ask some serious money for it.

It would be much easier for the duoselect.
 

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I am sure that if you converted your GT to manual, you could ask some serious money for it.

It would be much easier for the duoselect.
Why. They are pretty much the same car (assuming you start with a proper MC GT)

C
 

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Fair enough comment... and at least visibly the car is not a manual. But in reality it IS a manual, and a manual that operates in a much better manner than a human driver could operate in. Never misses a shift, always gears down with perfect rev-matching, and (subject to further verification) actually double-clutches down- (and maybe up- too) to speed gear engagements. This latter aspect would appear to be evident with SOFAST4 (with "Superfast)... 100mS upshifts when in Sport, >5000rpm's, >80%throttle opening.

Other than the Euro-only MC Shift Stradale, the 'Stateside 2009 GT Sport MC Shift car represents the zenith of F1 transmission (automated single-clutch manual) development.
 

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Doesn't double clutch. But it certainly shifts better than I do. It can sometimes miss a gear as well, but again, far less frequently than I do!
C
 

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I would be very interested to see the video if you can download it. I often think how much more I would enjoy my GS if it was manual shift.
The mechanical and the fabrication side of it doesn't scare me. The electronics concern me a bit though.
There are places doing Ferrari and BMW conversions, why not Maserati.
 

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I wonder if the last poster's car, being presumably RHD(?), complicates matters? GrandSports... did any come in 6MT... or were all CC? I wonder if the Coup茅 or Spyder underdash details are the same as a GS car? Notwithstanding previous poster's comments re Mechanical - it'd be nice if Mechanical were snap-easy...
 

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I wonder if the last poster's car, being presumably RHD(?), complicates matters? GrandSports... did any come in 6MT... or were all CC? I wonder if the Coup茅 or Spyder underdash details are the same as a GS car? Notwithstanding previous poster's comments re Mechanical - it'd be nice if Mechanical were snap-easy...
All Gransports are CC but components from the Coupe GT could be used, although some parts are NLA. So mechanically it is easier with a GS then it is with a QP-V.
Having said all that, mechanical parts such as a shift mechanism and clutch pedal assembly can all be fabricated from scratch, or parts from other vehicles adapted. May not be easy, but it can be done.
The part of the conversion that I am unsure about is how to trick the TCU. The TCU will be looking for hydraulic pressure readings, gear and clutch position readings. Without that information it probably wont allow the ECU to start the engine. I hope one day someone with ECU / TCU and Canbus knowledge can figure it out.
 

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I would be very interested to see the video if you can download it. I often think how much more I would enjoy my GS if it was manual shift.
The mechanical and the fabrication side of it doesn't scare me. The electronics concern me a bit though.
There are places doing Ferrari and BMW conversions, why not Maserati.
I second Karl GS' request to see the video, see more info on the conversion of a QP-V to full manual, from DuoSelect. MattCruz... can you give it a try? Re Karl GS' question, i.e. how the engine's logic module could deal with the absence of the CC gearbox, the same issue is evident: the GS never did come with a 6MT, i.e. same with a QP-V. Seemingly much less of an issue with a 4200 Coup茅 or Spyder which did have manual variants.
 
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Do you know hard it is to do stuff like this? Oh, just fabricate a clutch pedal assembly for a car that never came in a manual...It is a ton of work...Everything you thought you needed to do and then add 50 more things...The software/hardware part of it is just another deal in itself...Is it possible?...Sure, if you are a Prince of a foreign country...Is it feasible...No, not really...Jason
 

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I personally would not consider going there... as the mechanical fabrication, to my way of thinking, is really really daunting. The electrical, daunting too, and in some ways, perhaps more so. But earlier-on in this thread it would appear that someone has done it. This piques one's interest... at least it does mine.
 

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Do you know hard it is to do stuff like this? Oh, just fabricate a clutch pedal assembly for a car that never came in a manual...It is a ton of work...Everything you thought you needed to do and then add 50 more things...The software/hardware part of it is just another deal in itself...Is it possible?...Sure, if you are a Prince of a foreign country...Is it feasible...No, not really...Jason
Your right Jason, I understand what your saying. It is a ton of work.
I have done a fair bit of race car fabrication work and have the equipment and time to muck around with this stuff, but for people who have to pay someone to do this it would cost a fortune.
I am just interested to see how this person has done it.
 
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