[Troesma]

Hi again...

Today I also looked into installing the Formula Dynamics brake pads which I bought months ago on the group buy (Jeff, as usual, provided great delivery service). Had the box sitting at home and as I was heading onto my mechanic, well, thought it was time.

Now, when we (my mechanic and I) looked at the pads got a bit concerned. Maybe best for Jeff to clarify. Rear pads looked fine, but front pads had no identation for fitting the brake sensors (whereas the rears did) and the brake material was significantly thinner (by about .12 in, which is a lot...) than that of the OEM and other alternatives (Bendix, Ferodo, EBC). We were a bit confused. It could be due to differences in the compound, but then, the thickness of the rear pads was OK (identical to those by Bendix, etc.)

Any ideas..? TBH my used OEM front pads had more braking compound left than the new FD pads.

Also, 2 pads of the 4 of the front set had a metal clip/lip bolted on, which serves what purpose..? None of the others we used to compare against had it... Could it be that the US cars have a different Brembo brake system than the European one..? Size-wise, the pads are absolutely fine. The only differences are those listed above.

I decided to not install them until next Saturday (have to go again) and hope, in the meantime, for any feedback from Jeff or any of you folks.

Later,

Ed

 

[FormulaDynamics]

Hi Ed, the metal tab can be used as a wear sensor if desired. The fronts have no cutout for the wear sensor as you mentioned. Many customers simply zip tie down the factory sensors to keep them from getting damaged.

As to the thickness of the pads, our pads are designed to fit both Euro and US rotors as well as a performance rotor. The compound is vastly different than stock and there is plenty of life and material in the pads. The design allows for proper cooling, performance with the factory brake pistons and fitment.

A thicker pad may last longer if the compound is correct and the backing plate / internal design actually allows for full wear. However it may also take the piston out of it's optimal range for performance and cooling. for a portion of it's life / wear.

I actually do have another pad I can build which would last longer, however it would not perform the same. Let me know if mileage is your main concern and we'll get you a set of those.

 

[Troesma]

Hi Ed, the metal tab can be used as a wear sensor if desired. The fronts have no cutout for the wear sensor as you mentioned. Many customers simply zip tie down the factory sensors to keep them from getting damaged.

As to the thickness of the pads, our pads are designed to fit both Euro and US rotors as well as a performance rotor. The compound is vastly different than stock and there is plenty of life and material in the pads. The design allows for proper cooling, performance with the factory brake pistons and fitment.

A thicker pad may last longer if the compound is correct and the backing plate / internal design actually allows for full wear. However it may also take the piston out of it's optimal range for performance and cooling. for a portion of it's life / wear.

I actually do have another pad I can build which would last longer, however it would not perform the same. Let me know if mileage is your main concern and we'll get you a set of those.

Thanks Jeff, always a quick and thorough response.

My major concern is performance; that is, I don't give a damn about changing pads more frequently if I can get better braking power. What would the difference in mileage be..? Any estimates..? 10% less, 20%...?

What surprised us is the difference in thickness between front/rear pads, assuming the SAME compound is used in both (which I guess is the case).

Of course, we thought at one point that a lower thickness might come as a result of a harder compound which could skim the rotors much more quickly... not something I look forward to. Mathew told me a client had an experience with one kit (cannot remember brand, not fitted by him) which virtually chewed-up his rotors... and the car was not used on the track.

BTW how would you use the metal clip as wear sensor, given it is fit on the outside lobe of the backing plate..?

The issue with the sensors could be sorted by making the cutout as in the OEMs, unless you suggest that would be a BAD idea.

Otherwise it looks they will get fitted next WE.

Thanks again Jeff.

Ed

 

[Vincenzo]

Ed - I installed the FD pads myself just before tracking my GS up at Pocono. I noticed the same issues that you pointed out (diff in thickness & sensor cutout). I called Jeff over the weekend during my install and left a message and (on a Sunday!) he promptly returned my call about my concern over what to do about the sensors. I simply used a nylon tieback to sinch it up and keep it out of the way. At the same time, I flushed the entire system with Motul racing brake fluid. I also purchased the stainless steel lines but, unfortunately didn't have enough time before heading for the track to get them installed.

On the track, the brakes performed beautifully. Coming off turn two I would be hitting speeds close to 130 and would have to brake hard down to about 30mph for a hard left into the essess....I had no fade at all and never had any sense that my brakes would let me down. DEFINITELY follow Jeff's break-in procedure however. You have to take the car up to 60-80 mph runs and brake to zero repeatedly in succession 8 to 10 times and then let the brakes cool down. This 'seasons' the brake material.

Good luck with your install.....

 

[FormulaDynamics]

Hi Ed,

I honestly have not compared the mileage and I'm not one for a fair comparison as I do drive like an Italian or German ( either on the gas or on the brakes ) LOL and that's going to be a different kind of wear than for a daily driver.

I have not heard of a complaint, we do have customers out there that have had our pads for quite a while. I'll try to collect some more data on life span with customers.

Our street pads ( which you have ) are meant to be nice to rotors, provide an increase in braking torque and feel ( initial bite and resistance to fade ), low dust, low volume, etc... they are the best balance we know of in the market for the street.

We also have a track pad which is not as rotor friendly, can rust, noisier, more dust, etc... but you can easily and quickly change them out at the track to get a good track session and pop back in your street set for the drive home.

For the sensors I have not personally tried to cut out for the sensor. I have found that it doesn't help me too much as I tend to want to replace brake pads earlier than the sensors indicate anyway. I have had customers do this, I was told that it does work.

Best Regards,
-- Jeff

 

[Troesma]

Hi Ed,

I honestly have not compared the mileage and I'm not one for a fair comparison as I do drive like an Italian or German ( either on the gas or on the brakes ) LOL and that's going to be a different kind of wear than for a daily driver.

I have not heard of a complaint, we do have customers out there that have had our pads for quite a while. I'll try to collect some more data on life span with customers.

Our street pads ( which you have ) are meant to be nice to rotors, provide an increase in braking torque and feel ( initial bite and resistance to fade ), low dust, low volume, etc... they are the best balance we know of in the market for the street.

We also have a track pad which is not as rotor friendly, can rust, noisier, more dust, etc... but you can easily and quickly change them out at the track to get a good track session and pop back in your street set for the drive home.

For the sensors I have not personally tried to cut out for the sensor. I have found that it doesn't help me too much as I tend to want to replace brake pads earlier than the sensors indicate anyway. I have had customers do this, I was told that it does work.

Best Regards,
-- Jeff

Jeff

As for braking fluid, would you go for the MOTUL RBF 600 or the RBF 660..?

 

[GrndLkNatv]

Jeff is shipping...

The 600 with his new stainless brakeline kit...

http://www.formuladynamics.com/products/sslines/sslines.php

I am going to pick this up here in the next few weeks..

 

[FormulaDynamics]

Yes, Motul RBF600 is my choice. I've raced many fluids, this is the one I trust my life with.

 

[Troesma]

Yes, Motul RBF600 is my choice. I've raced many fluids, this is the one I trust my life with.

The difference is in the wet boiling point, which is slightly lower on the RBF660 than the 600... however the dry boiling point is higher (of course, until it starts to pick-up moisture, which will lower the BP.) If changing fluids regularly (once x year) and need a bit extra of bite on brakes which tend to heat-up by design, the 660 seems the way to go IMHO. But both are extremely good products.

That's as I've seen from the prod specs.

Just for reference

RBF600
-------
DBP 593F
WBP 420F

RBF660
-------
DBP 617F
WBP 400F

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