Can anyone explain to me why the clutch and a few things need to be replaced at certain points of the cars life? Im looking at an 02 spyder and am hesitant because of the servicing and "clutch issues ive heard about"..Can anyone enlighten me?
Does anyone know why the clutch?
1 - 20 of 27 Posts
Joined
·
112 Posts
Clutch needs to be replaced as it designed to wear and when this has to be done is down to driving styles. Maserati apparantly now fit a better clutch as standard when you go in for a replacement.
F1 pump seems to be a design issue along. Trailing arm bushes again will wear out and there does not seem to be a viable alternative to just replacing the bushes themselves.
F1 pump seems to be a design issue along. Trailing arm bushes again will wear out and there does not seem to be a viable alternative to just replacing the bushes themselves.
Without any intention of being arrogant, I agree . . .Anyone who doesn't know why clutches need to be replaced should avoid buying sports cars.
Mirvin, this is the most basic of knowledge about a clutch. I would tend to agree that this type of automobile is not for you. Your just asking for trouble and to be taken advantage of regarding service.
If your looking for a fun, sporty car, stick to a reliable german vehicle in an automatic - MB, BMW, Audi.
Joined
·
744 Posts
Clutch Replacement
I think your concern about clutch lifespan is entirely legitimate given the price of a CC clutch replacement is around $4K.
I have heard that the clutches in CC models require more frequent replacement compared to manual models especially if driven in automatic mode. I have also heard that the use of CC transmissions in auto mode on hills is particularly problematic as the clutch is constantly slipping. This makes perfect sense to me and it has been corroborated by the feedback from two reputeable dealers. I was told that a CC clutch used in hard service would last about 20 thousand miles (or less). This is 1/3 of the lifespan that could be expected from a true manual clutch. I researched this topic extensively prior to purchasing my 04 spyder with a 6MT and it was a key selection criteria for me.
Please do not be discouraged by the condescending and judgemental remarks made by others in response to your query - you are fully entitled to request information without an arrogant response about your knowledge of cars. Buy a Maserati and enjoy it!
I think your concern about clutch lifespan is entirely legitimate given the price of a CC clutch replacement is around $4K.
I have heard that the clutches in CC models require more frequent replacement compared to manual models especially if driven in automatic mode. I have also heard that the use of CC transmissions in auto mode on hills is particularly problematic as the clutch is constantly slipping. This makes perfect sense to me and it has been corroborated by the feedback from two reputeable dealers. I was told that a CC clutch used in hard service would last about 20 thousand miles (or less). This is 1/3 of the lifespan that could be expected from a true manual clutch. I researched this topic extensively prior to purchasing my 04 spyder with a 6MT and it was a key selection criteria for me.
Please do not be discouraged by the condescending and judgemental remarks made by others in response to your query - you are fully entitled to request information without an arrogant response about your knowledge of cars. Buy a Maserati and enjoy it!
The question he posed was not why do Maserati clutches in the CC wear faster than most - a legit question - but "why the clutch and a few things need to be replaced at certain points of the cars life". It's nothing personal, but it shows a lack of even a basic understanding, and IMHO, he should avoid a Maserati as his first venture. Instead of telling him, sure, go buy a Maserati, and enjoy the bills and being taken at the dealers, maybe, just maybe, the better advise is go buy a fun, reliable, manual, learn how to drive it and how and why it works and then, if your into it, come back to a Maserati or a Porsche. You would save him tons of aggravation, money and headaches
My comments were not arrogant or judgmental, but honest and meant with the best of intentions to give him good advice. Whether its good or bad, Maseratis are expensive temperamental Italians that are best owned by people that have at least a decent knowledge of autos.
Joined
·
744 Posts
I appreciate your explanation but I still think that automotive knowledge is not neccesarily a prerequisite to owning (and enjoying) a Maserati unless you plan to service it yourself. If the issue is trying to avoid getting fleeced by mechanics - automotive knowledge can help but it is certainly not the preferred defence (finding a reputable shop is far better IMO).
I am also not so sure that the question posed is as straightforward as you contend. He references "clutch issues that I've heard about". The only issues that I am aware of are premature clutch wear on CC cars (as little as 10K miles in some cases). This is a pretty significant consideration given the cost - he could easily spend more than the purchase price of the car he is considering (an '02) in clutch replacements over its lifespan. If he is unwilling to take that risk (and if he can't drive a stick) - then I agree with you completely that a more prudent route is to learn on a cheaper less tempermental car and then maybe come back and buy a GT.
I am also not so sure that the question posed is as straightforward as you contend. He references "clutch issues that I've heard about". The only issues that I am aware of are premature clutch wear on CC cars (as little as 10K miles in some cases). This is a pretty significant consideration given the cost - he could easily spend more than the purchase price of the car he is considering (an '02) in clutch replacements over its lifespan. If he is unwilling to take that risk (and if he can't drive a stick) - then I agree with you completely that a more prudent route is to learn on a cheaper less tempermental car and then maybe come back and buy a GT.
Desin Parameter
It is actually not a bad question from an engineering standpoint. The clutch in my E36 M3 has over 140,000 miles on it and doesn’t slip and I beat the hell out of the car. I have not taken a Maserati transmission apart but is there something particular about the hydraulic actuated clutch design that causes the plates to wear faster? What design parameter could be changed to increase the lifespan of the clutch?
It is actually not a bad question from an engineering standpoint. The clutch in my E36 M3 has over 140,000 miles on it and doesn’t slip and I beat the hell out of the car. I have not taken a Maserati transmission apart but is there something particular about the hydraulic actuated clutch design that causes the plates to wear faster? What design parameter could be changed to increase the lifespan of the clutch?
140k is a lot on any clutch. Clutches in manual transmission cars typically last 60-90k miles. 140 is way outside the norm and definitely not typical for a car that is driven hard. This leads me to ask, do you have an automatic?
Basically, F1 style clutches wear more quickly than manual run clutches because the computer doesn't know what you are going to do. It only has engine RPM, speed, gas/brake, and gear as the inputs. It must guess if you are just backing off, planning to shift, gunning it, pulling out slowly, etc. This inevitably leads to some slippage in order to maintain a smooth shifting pattern.
When you drive you know exactly what you are planning. You engage quickly or slowly to match your throttle input, etc. This leads to less wear.
If we knew how to make a computer precognitive we could greatly extend the clutch life. Since that doesn't work, we are stuck adaptive systems that learn how you typically drive and they try to accommodate that. Then when you do something different the clutch wears more.
Joined
·
217 Posts
So, is there a way to drive a CC and extend the life of the clutch? I heard that backing up inclines can fry the clutch but what about normal driving? Does how you use the throttle make it easier/harder for the computer to manage the clutch engagement?
Excuse my ignorance. I've yet to drive a CC although I do have a test drive of a GS scheduled this week
Clutches lasting 20-25k is not a new issue ask an LS-1 Trans am or Camaro guy My WS-6 just hit 40k and she is due for another new clutch my Maser just rolled to 19,500 and it needs one as well...I wont even get into the twin plates and things I have installed on other vehicles...
Joined
·
695 Posts
Reverse and "Auto" seem to be the worst offenders. Followed by lots of stop/go and creeping due to heavy traffic.So, is there a way to drive a CC and extend the life of the clutch? I heard that backing up inclines can fry the clutch but what about normal driving? Does how you use the throttle make it easier/harder for the computer to manage the clutch engagement?
Excuse my ignorance. I've yet to drive a CC although I do have a test drive of a GS scheduled this week
While lots of folks drive around only in "sport" mode for the quicker shifts, I find that I am smoother wrt to shifting in "normal" mode with throttle modulation. Sport shifting at high rpm can be violent and the wife doesn't like impersonating a bobblehead.
Yes there are things you can do.
Reverse is a big offender. In a Ferrari the clutch never fully engages in reverse. Since it slips all of the time the wear is staggering.
Stop & Go and creeping are the next biggest offenders. The computer doesn't know what to expect so it feathers the clutch more.
You can handle this situation by waiting until there is some space, then bumping the throttle firmly, you will feel the clutch fully engage. From that point on don't touch the brake unless you plan on stopping! You can shift up or down and creep but don't touch the brakes. As soon as you brake the system will disengage the clutch. You then have to get it fully engaged or it will slip and wear prematurely.
Auto mode shouldn't be a problem. OK, boring and it shifts very early but it shifts pretty clean.
Keep in mind that it is really a manual. Anything that makes the clutch engage/disengage will cause wear. Plan your actions to cause the clutch to fully engage and keep it there. Use gears to control speed and brake only when you want to stop.
This takes some practice and some patience. You will have a larger space to the car in front than you are use to with your other cars but it will reward you with long clutch life.
Reverse is a big offender. In a Ferrari the clutch never fully engages in reverse. Since it slips all of the time the wear is staggering.
Stop & Go and creeping are the next biggest offenders. The computer doesn't know what to expect so it feathers the clutch more.
You can handle this situation by waiting until there is some space, then bumping the throttle firmly, you will feel the clutch fully engage. From that point on don't touch the brake unless you plan on stopping! You can shift up or down and creep but don't touch the brakes. As soon as you brake the system will disengage the clutch. You then have to get it fully engaged or it will slip and wear prematurely.
Auto mode shouldn't be a problem. OK, boring and it shifts very early but it shifts pretty clean.
Keep in mind that it is really a manual. Anything that makes the clutch engage/disengage will cause wear. Plan your actions to cause the clutch to fully engage and keep it there. Use gears to control speed and brake only when you want to stop.
This takes some practice and some patience. You will have a larger space to the car in front than you are use to with your other cars but it will reward you with long clutch life.
Joined
·
196 Posts
You can drive the hell out of a car and have little clutch wear. As long as ou keep engagement and disengagements brief with as little slip as you can. You can drive a car like a p*ssy and have very rapid clutch wear, such as the typical housewives trick of slipping the clutch keeping a car stationary on a hill etc. When driving hard you can even change gear without using the clutch at all (although I have to admit that I never got really good at that). But I did drive a car home once without a clutch at all as it went. Turned it off at every red light and then drove off using the starter whilst in gear, subsequent shifts without using the clutch.
To explain to mirvin: the clutch consists of two round plates with friction material on it. One part is attached to the engine, the other part to the drive train that turns the wheels. When you have the clutch disengaged the engine turns over, spinning the first clutch plate, but not the second clutch plate, and not the drivetrain, so you don't move. When you engage the clutch, the clutch plates come together, the friction material comes together, but as one plate is turning but the other not, the friction material wears off until the plates are pressed together, and the car moves. The quicker and easier this process goes, the less friction material you wear off, ergo, the longer your clutch plates last. You can help this by aiming to have the speed at which the individual clutch plates spin prior to engaging matched as closely as you can. When you are at speed and want to switch to a lower gear, you can use a "double declutch" technique, whereby you shift the car in N, release the clutch, give it a wollop of throttle, tthereby rev the engine, engage the clutch again, and then engage the lower gear. It makes for a somewhat longer but beautifully smooth gear change. The Maser CC does this for you with the "trhottle blip". Alfa Romeo owners learn to do this by hand out of necessity because of weak synchromesh rings.
To explain to mirvin: the clutch consists of two round plates with friction material on it. One part is attached to the engine, the other part to the drive train that turns the wheels. When you have the clutch disengaged the engine turns over, spinning the first clutch plate, but not the second clutch plate, and not the drivetrain, so you don't move. When you engage the clutch, the clutch plates come together, the friction material comes together, but as one plate is turning but the other not, the friction material wears off until the plates are pressed together, and the car moves. The quicker and easier this process goes, the less friction material you wear off, ergo, the longer your clutch plates last. You can help this by aiming to have the speed at which the individual clutch plates spin prior to engaging matched as closely as you can. When you are at speed and want to switch to a lower gear, you can use a "double declutch" technique, whereby you shift the car in N, release the clutch, give it a wollop of throttle, tthereby rev the engine, engage the clutch again, and then engage the lower gear. It makes for a somewhat longer but beautifully smooth gear change. The Maser CC does this for you with the "trhottle blip". Alfa Romeo owners learn to do this by hand out of necessity because of weak synchromesh rings.
Dolle Dolf,
We used to call driving without a clutch speed shifting. Drove from Buffalo to Miami years ago after I put my foot (and clutch pedal) through the firewall.
Didn't use the starter to get the car rolling though as I had a couple of healthy buddies to help push start in gear and then quickly jump in!
Had a plate welded back in to mount the clutch pedal again and the clutch still lasted longer than on the Maser
We used to call driving without a clutch speed shifting. Drove from Buffalo to Miami years ago after I put my foot (and clutch pedal) through the firewall.
Didn't use the starter to get the car rolling though as I had a couple of healthy buddies to help push start in gear and then quickly jump in!
Had a plate welded back in to mount the clutch pedal again and the clutch still lasted longer than on the Maser
Joined
·
909 Posts
we need a wiki to get all of these assorted clutch questions and answers in one spot that never moves.
I am working on a wiki. PM me if you can help in populating it on other topics
Joined
·
196 Posts
That is a long drive without a clutch, but then again, you prolly threw it in 5th gear and never shifted again until arriving in Miami 3 days later heh heh. Whereas in rush hour Dallas traffic I probably shifted more in 20 minutes
You either have a very impressive left leg, or those Buffalo folks really do use a lot of salt on the roads.
For folks that like to use "speed shifting" to save clutch plate wear, or like to break "on the engine" to save brake pads; brake pads are cheap and easy to replace. A clutch is more expensive, and takes much longer. And a tranny, well, you know what I mean.....
1 - 20 of 27 Posts
Join the discussion
