[Vincenzo]

So I'm thinking of buying new brake pads even though the GS only has about 10K miles on her. I can't stand the embarrassing squeaking when I come to a stop. A couple of questions for the crew here....I've been changing my own pads on my vehicles for about 15 years with no problems but, I'm wondering if there is anything special about the GS brake system that I need to know before hand. Also, I'm thinking of going with the Formula Dynamics pads - will these eliminate the squeal? And finally, any thoughts on choice of brake fluid?

 

[MaseratiBoy]

I have heard they eliminate squeal... In regards to the steps to changing pads on the GS... If I am correct, they are brembos, so they are actually easier to change (tap out the pin and replace the pads; as apposed to taking apart the calipers)

 

[FormulaDynamics]

FWIW, we use the FD Pads ( big suprise ) and they don't squeal. Changing the pads is a piece of cake, they do just slide out of the caliper. Feel free to give us a call if you get stuck. Just be sure to use a high quality, high temp brake fluid. We recommend and stock MOTUL.

If you're looking for even more braking power, braided stainless steel lines will be out shortly, just in case you want to do it all at once. Just let us know when you place the order.

 

[jakermc]

I have not seen a retaining pin in a Brembo caliper in many years. I have not pulled the wheels of my Coupe yet (only had it two weeks), but aren't they using the spring clip on the back of the caliper without a pin?

I also highly recommend Motul. I use it in all my vehicles whether they are street or race cars. Braided lines will not give you more braking power however. They may feel a bit firmer as the lines do not expand quite as much under pressure but the effect is actually quite small, especially compared to fresh rubber lines. If you are replacing old worn out lines, sure the difference can feel more dramatic.

 

[FormulaDynamics]

I have not seen a retaining pin in a Brembo caliper in many years. I have not pulled the wheels of my Coupe yet (only had it two weeks), but aren't they using the spring clip on the back of the caliper without a pin?

I also highly recommend Motul. I use it in all my vehicles whether they are street or race cars. Braided lines will not give you more braking power however. They may feel a bit firmer as the lines do not expand quite as much under pressure but the effect is actually quite small, especially compared to fresh rubber lines. If you are replacing old worn out lines, sure the difference can feel more dramatic.

Congrats on the new Maser!

The factory Brembo's have 2 pins per caliper which hold the pads / retaining spring.

Stainless Steel Braided lines give you a firmer pedal and more stopping power with less effort. The effects are less noticable around town cruising at the speed limit and more noticable when you are applying significant force to get the car stopped. They also make more of a difference when the temperature increases as the stock rubber tends to expand even more.

The combination of pads, fresh Motul Racing Fluid and SS Lines are a noticable improvement.

 

[jakermc]

Congrats on the new Maser!

The factory Brembo's have 2 pins per caliper which hold the pads / retaining spring.

Stainless Steel Braided lines give you a firmer pedal and more stopping power with less effort. The effects are less noticable around town cruising at the speed limit and more noticable when you are applying significant force to get the car stopped. They also make more of a difference when the temperature increases as the stock rubber tends to expand even more.

The combination of pads, fresh Motul Racing Fluid and SS Lines are a noticable improvement.

I am surprised they went with the pin design. I think the last caliper I saw that way was on my '83 911 before I changed to Turbo brakes. The racing design that utilizes a compressable spring clip is much easier to work with. I am thinking of the design that I first remember seeing on the Porsche 917 and was later utilized on the 930. It's been OEM for the Porsche 993, 996, 997 and many others. Also OEM on the Ferrari F355 and other F-cars. Seems like a step backwards.

I really question if many people will notice the effects of stainless lines anywhere but on a race track, and then only with significant experience. I utilize them on my race car and think I notice a difference, but that's after years of practice getting in tune with subtle changes and when pressing brakes to their limits. (125 mph down to 60 mph and trail braking a rear engined car into a corner). On a street car, comparing new rubber to new stainless, it would take Michael Schumacher to pick up on the subtle difference.

A point of clarification about stopping power. Stainless, no matter what the application, will not increase absolute stopping power. Stopping power is dependent upon the torque provided by the pad material (which changes across temperature ranges), the surface area of the pad against the rotor, and the level of compression of the piston against the pad. Stainless does not change the ability of the piston to compress any harder that it does with rubber lines, it simply helps it compress with slightly less effort.

There is also a serious downside to stainless lines in street cars. The rubber lines allow you to see wear. A stainless line can deteriorate within the steel sheath and you'll never know. We use them in race cars because we replace our lines every year so its not an issue. How many are ready for that level of maintenance on a street car?

 

[FormulaDynamics]

I am surprised they went with the pin design. I think the last caliper I saw that way was on my '83 911 before I changed to Turbo brakes. The racing design that utilizes a compressable spring clip is much easier to work with. I am thinking of the design that I first remember seeing on the Porsche 917 and was later utilized on the 930. It's been OEM for the Porsche 993, 996, 997 and many others. Also OEM on the Ferrari F355 and other F-cars. Seems like a step backwards.

I really question if many people will notice the effects of stainless lines anywhere but on a race track, and then only with significant experience. I utilize them on my race car and think I notice a difference, but that's after years of practice getting in tune with subtle changes and when pressing brakes to their limits. (125 mph down to 60 mph and trail braking a rear engined car into a corner). On a street car, comparing new rubber to new stainless, it would take Michael Schumacher to pick up on the subtle difference.

A point of clarification about stopping power. Stainless, no matter what the application, will not increase absolute stopping power. Stopping power is dependent upon the torque provided by the pad material (which changes across temperature ranges), the surface area of the pad against the rotor, and the level of compression of the piston against the pad. Stainless does not change the ability of the piston to compress any harder that it does with rubber lines, it simply helps it compress with slightly less effort.

There is also a serious downside to stainless lines in street cars. The rubber lines allow you to see wear. A stainless line can deteriorate within the steel sheath and you'll never know. We use them in race cars because we replace our lines every year so its not an issue. How many are ready for that level of maintenance on a street car?

The rear calipers on the Masi do have a spring style clip, the fronts are the good 'ol 2 pin design.

I'm just going to have to respectfully disagree with your comments regarding stainless lines. When the rubber bulges, you're loosing force that should be applied to the calipers and thus the pads, thereby reducing stopping power. Every track car or race car will have a set of these lines for this very reason. We work on many race cars (including our own) and have a lifetime membership to our local racetrack. It's an obvious difference ( at least to us and the majority of folks who use them ) and that's why we all spend the money for them.

If you don't notice the difference in stopping power and they require more maintenance for you, I would suggest you go back to rubber lines and save a few bucks. With your car, caliper, etc perhaps the difference is subtle. However I don't think that is a common response to upgrading your lines.

Stainless Steel lines simply do not need to be replaced even remotely that often, in fact they outlive rubber lines. The common problem with Stainless lines on a street car is that many brands do not meet D.O.T. requirements. This is changing now as more manufacturers and getting on the bandwagon.

In any case our Stainless Steel lines are completely street legal and DO meet D.O.T. requirements.

Best Regards

 

[jakermc]

We will certainly have to agree to disagree on this one but I think you misinterpreted a few of my comments.

I agree with you that when rubber bulges you lose force, however this force can be made up by pushing the pedal with slightly more effort. This results in the pistons moving the same amount, thus creating the same stopping power. Compare new rubber lines to new stainless lines in a standard 60-0mph test and stopping distances will not be materially different from one another. Not enough to statistically say one is better than the other.

If you have some free time, do the math. Calculate the inside area of your brake lines and M/C. Now calculate the ever so slight increase in the area when your tiny (relative to the whole system) flexible lines expand. The difference is minute and therefore the loss of pressure and force is minute. It takes very little additional pedal effort to make up that difference.

I agree, Stainless lines do not need to be replaced every year. I meant to imply that its part of routine maintenance on a race car. You can not visually check the condition of the lines so it is safer to replace each season. $90 is peanuts in season's race budget, why risk a spot on the podium, or worse, your life? I think they are wonderful in racing applications and I will continue to use them on my race cars.

On street cars lines should be inspected for wear each year and be replaced when needed. With Stainless lines you can't check the condition, so if you leave them on you are simply assuming they are OK. Others may find this acceptable but I prefer not to assume anything when it comes to brakes. I will continue to use rubber on the street.

 

[FormulaDynamics]

Fair enough, I do appreciate your opinion. I just feel differently about the lines, I love them and once I decided to go to stainless braided lines, I've never wanted to go back!

Understand that I'm not saying that stainless lines are going to give you 25% better braking, but they do improve the response and feel. Sometimes the ability to have the feedback and control to trail brake into corners paired with not having to mash the brakes to the floor to get the car to stop is a needed piece of confidence that improves the driver experience. For me as a driver, when I have to smash that pedal to get a solid stop, I loose the finese and muscle control that's required to better control the car.

If you're a cruiser, just a stop and go guy, this will not apply to you and you probably will not even be reading this post! However if you're braking down from 125mph or carving turns in the car, you'll know what I mean

Also worth mentioning, if you upgrade the power of your car, you'll find out quickly that the brakes need help. Stainless lines, pads and fluid. Every little bid adds up.

 

[jakermc]

I appreciate your opinion as well.

Switching topics, but staying on brakes, what can you tell us about your street and race pads? How do their characteristics compare to some of the more commonly available brands we may have had experience with?

For the street I use Porterfield R4S. I have found them to be quiet and relatively dust free, but have less torque than I'd like. Good enough for most aggressive driving on the street but good for no more than a couple of laps on the track.

On the track I have used Pagid Orange, Pagid Yellow, and my current favorite PFC 97. The latter is the easiest pad to modulate that I have ever tried. Lower in torque than some other choices but I have 930 calipers and rotors on a 2,550 lb car so stopping power is not an issue. (The large brakes are to help manage heat, along with large air ducts.). Modulation is the most important aspect to me as it helps make those small adjustments that are needed when you are door to door with someone in the heat of battle.

I only mention those brands to provide a better understanding of my frame of reference. I'd love to learn more about your pad line, in particular as an option on my street cars.

 

[FormulaDynamics]

Our Street Pads are quiet, eliminate squeeling and are superior to the stock pads in just about every way. Improved Torque without having the same over bite of track and other hp pads under initial braking. Smooth modulation, good feedback, low dust, long life, rotor friendly.

The race pads in contrast are not the best choice for the street, they wear more on the rotor ( more metallic ), much more noise, they have significantly more initial bite and do need some time to warm up. However they offer the most stopping power we've seen and are very fast to slip in (front only) before a track day.

In all cases the Maserati will have overheating brakes on the track, the current brakes are just not matched for the weight of the car on a race track. Not to say you can't take it to the track and do very well but just be sure to not stay out there for too long and leave at least 3 min of cool down driving before returning to the pits.