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Discussion Starter #1
I bought my car early February from MoM. Early March I had the central silencer cut out and replaced with straight pipes. Shortly after, the CEL came on (can't remember the code right now but had something to do with cat preheat). My car is in the dealer now and they just called me to let me know both pre-cats are completely empty. Not blown out but emptied out (they can inspect through an access hole). Seems that removing the central silencer reduced back pressure just enough to cool the cats down to trigger the CEL. It's their opinion that they were purposely cleaned out because if they blew out, the remnants would get stuck in the cats and block the exhaust. Also, probably only one side would have gone. So, this begs the question whether the cats themselves have been cleaned out as well. Probably not since it took the removal of the central silencer to trigger the CEL but who knows. Has anyone ever heard of someone purposely cleaning out just pre cats (or both cats) and not doing any other exhaust work?

Anyway, NOT covered by warranty. The car runs strong and throws the CEL after about a day. Passed Texas emissions when I got it. Dealer suggests just living with it for now but I'm worried about the next inspection. Any comments?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
That's a new one as far as I know.

I'll check into the history of that car a bit more and see if I can find anything out for you.
Thanks! I was there with the muffler guy the whole time and the entire removal of the central silencer and replacement with straight pipes took all of 45 minutes. NOTHING forward or rear of the central silencer was touched in any way. I guess I can have the central silencer put back on to increase the cat temp so the CEL stays off but basic exhaust mods should be tolerated. Short of finding some used pre cats I'm not shure what to do here. I'm also not sure if the main cats have been mollested in any way.
 

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I've actually never heard of the pre-cats being touched at all (on these anyway). They're in the headers, and while I've heard of them occasionally breaking up and becoming a problem (much more common on the lambo v10), I haven't heard of them being emptied before. Obviously its not something we would have done, or even checked. I think Pete said you had actually spoken to the dealer that originally sold the car or did the work or something?

The 'access hole' is actually removing the 02 sensor and using a bore-scope to inspect. I think its more likely that they broke up and were blown out, but an inspection of the rest of the exhaust would tell you if that's the case. I'd assume the pieces would have ended up in the front of the main cat if that's how it happened, so obviously you'd have other problems there assuming the main cats haven't been touched or changed.

I'm looking for a picture I took a few months ago that shows the pre-cat in the header.
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
I've actually never heard of the pre-cats being touched at all (on these anyway). They're in the headers, and while I've heard of them occasionally breaking up and becoming a problem (much more common on the lambo v10), I haven't heard of them being emptied before. Obviously its not something we would have done, or even checked. I think Pete said you had actually spoken to the dealer that originally sold the car or did the work or something?

The 'access hole' is actually removing the 02 sensor and using a bore-scope to inspect. I think its more likely that they broke up and were blown out, but an inspection of the rest of the exhaust would tell you if that's the case. I'd assume the pieces would have ended up in the front of the main cat if that's how it happened, so obviously you'd have other problems there assuming the main cats haven't been touched or changed.

I'm looking for a picture I took a few months ago that shows the pre-cat in the header.
Nope. I never got through to the Florida dealer.
My guess is the pre cats broke up and blew into the cats but haven't 100% restricted the flow (I have noticed a little loss of power off the line). They haven't taken the cats off because my exhaust mod is welded on. I'm going to insist they disconnect the pre-cats from the cats and look inside. If there's nothig, I'll except it as a mystery. If there is, I'll get new pre-cats.

EDIT... I guess the pre cats are welded to the cats and can't be separated. Does the shop have the ability to cut the exhaust? If my pre cats broke up, I want warranty replacements. Is there something that removing the central silencer could have done? I had the mod done just before the high speed trip to Shreveport. Then it was 20-30 MPH stop-and-go to work for a week. I smelled rotten eggs for a while in the garage then a loss of power (still plenty of power but not what I remember when I first got it).
 

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the egg smell/loss of power is indicative of a cat or precat breaking up as they use sulfer as part of the brick in the catalyzer...something is clogged up hence the smell/power loss
 

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The pre-cat and cat assembly would have had to been separated at the exit junction of the header to intentionally remove any material.



 

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I bought my car early February from MoM. Early March I had the central silencer cut out and replaced with straight pipes. Shortly after, the CEL came on (can't remember the code right now but had something to do with cat preheat). My car is in the dealer now and they just called me to let me know both pre-cats are completely empty. Not blown out but emptied out (they can inspect through an access hole). Seems that removing the central silencer reduced back pressure just enough to cool the cats down to trigger the CEL. It's their opinion that they were purposely cleaned out because if they blew out, the remnants would get stuck in the cats and block the exhaust. Also, probably only one side would have gone. So, this begs the question whether the cats themselves have been cleaned out as well. Probably not since it took the removal of the central silencer to trigger the CEL but who knows. Has anyone ever heard of someone purposely cleaning out just pre cats (or both cats) and not doing any other exhaust work?

Anyway, NOT covered by warranty. The car runs strong and throws the CEL after about a day. Passed Texas emissions when I got it. Dealer suggests just living with it for now but I'm worried about the next inspection. Any comments?

Sounds like a warranty issue.... christ Buzz... you just got that thing!!! Pre cats dont just fall apart and if it was messed with and not conveyed to you by the seller.... I would not be as calm, cool and collected as you.:mad:
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
Sounds like a warranty issue.... christ Buzz... you just got that thing!!! Pre cats dont just fall apart and if it was messed with and not conveyed to you by the seller.... I would not be as calm, cool and collected as you.:mad:
Oh, you can count on the fact that I'm going to do whatever it takes to get the cats replaced under warranty. Ross Berg at Park Place Dallas has stated that both pre-cats have been "cleaned out by someone" and they won't replace them. My car is still there getting a new immobilizer module installed (which was bad when I purchased the car and was why my keys didn't work). I'm going to get their posistion in writing, then escillate it.

Texas law (and I'm sure the law in most states) specifically states "it is illegal to sell or lease a motor vehicle whose emission control system is not in good operable condition".

Facts:
1. I have owned the vehicle for 3 months
2. I have not, nor have I had anyone tamper with the catalytic converters
3. I had a MINOR exhaust modification done (by a certified muffler shop) to remove the central silencer behind the primary cats. I observed the work being done and at no time were the cats removed or tampered with.

That says that either both both pre-cats have failed naturally or the cats were tampered with prior to my purchase. Park Place firmly rejects the notion they failed. Either way, it sounds like MNA needs to get involved. I am currently in the process of writing a letter to both the EPA and the Texas Department of Transportation describing basically what this thread says and asking for their assistance.
 

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I will be at Park Place Tuesday getting my keys programed.... Sounds like however you slice this thing, it isnt your fault! What does MoM say? Are they just playing dumb? You bought a supposed "stock" car from them.... obviously it isnt..... they need to get involved here.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I will be at Park Place Tuesday getting my keys programed.... Sounds like however you slice this thing, it isnt your fault! What does MoM say? Are they just playing dumb? You bought a supposed "stock" car from them.... obviously it isnt..... they need to get involved here.
I haven't contacted MoM directly yet outside of what you read on this thread. I want Park Place's written position first and I'll go from there.

I just got off the phone with the owner of my muffler shop and he's writing a letter for me stating he did the exhaust work in an accepted, legal manner and at no time were the cats touched.

I hope MNA is reasonable about this. This is an emissions component, not a performance or cosmetic issue. If they failed, replace them under warranty. If they were monkeyed with, it was before I bought the car, which is not a good thing!
 

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Our position on this is basically wait and see what the inspections reveal.

We would never have tampered with the cats, but that was also not something that came up as needing to be looked at while the car was here, so we can't say either way if this is something that happened before or after we had the car.

We'll certainly do what we can to help.

- Mark
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Our position on this is basically wait and see what the inspections reveal.

We would never have tampered with the cats, but that was also not something that came up as needing to be looked at while the car was here, so we can't say either way if this is something that happened before or after we had the car.

We'll certainly do what we can to help.

- Mark
Thanks Mark. I don't think it's a question of whether MoM tampered with the cats. If the original owner did so, I doubt that you would have known about it. But it begs the question why would ANYONE tamper with them? More importantly, why tamper with the cats but leave the exhaust setup stock? I believe they have broken up and are wedged in the cats but it looks like you have to cut the pre cat from the primary cat in order to get a clear picture. My exhaust mod being welded-on doesn't help the inspection process. ANY help on where to go from here would be GREATLY appreciated.

Buzz
 

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C'mon Buzz.... just cut everything off and run the pipes out the sides.... ;) That thing needs to breathe... time to quit the black tie dinners and shatter some port glasses:cool:
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I hired an attorney today to help me figure out where the problem is.

If it turns out to be bad cats and MNA won't help, I'll let you know.
If Park Place Dallas is just too lazy to do the right thing, I'll let you know.
If Maserati of Minneapolis sold me a defective car, I'll post that as well.

I know I didn't do anything, so the that pretty much narrows it down......... NOBODY IS STEPPING UP TO THE PLATE! Margins must be pretty slim not to cover a $5k problem with a $70k car that's 3 months old (to me).

$4-5k in attorney fees to replace $5k worth of cats BLOWS! But now it's the principal. I love my car. I hate the way I'm being treated when the first problem pops up.

I'm going to post progress daily via PM. If you're interested, PM me and I'll put you on the list.

If anyone else has similar problems with MNA, Park Place or MoM, please PM me ASAP.

Thanks,

Buzz
 

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Hey Buzz, That blows bro:mad:

Bad CATS? Says who? If they were bad, isnt that something still under warranty? I heard that both MNA and FNA are being peckerheads lately but that is ridiculous!

This should be interesting... I find it hard to believe that MNA isnt getting involved if it was truely bad CATS... there must be some sort of history if they know they were bad or if they admit they were bad... so I guess...

You bought the car from MoM... I agree that they wouldnt check for that but SHOULD at the very least be going to bat for you.

PP of Dallas said they were "bad" CATS... they should notify MNA of their findings.

MNA should step in.....

Best of Luck! Please put me on the PM list.....

and to think I am 430 shopping currently.... interesting;)
 

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I can sympathize about cat-problems. My Maserati cats & pre-cats are long gone. After a year and a lot of money, I still can't get the CEL to quite go away...I spend several hundred a year in bribes to get my sticker...perhaps you will have to do the same. (If you see a guy with a Trident tat in jail you know it's me. )

I hope your problems get resolved. My personal philosophy with Italian sports cars is to spend the money and not get upset like I would in other situations...getting upset ruins the pleasure for me. Just recently I spent thousands getting cracked headers replaced in my Ferrari. Three hundred miles later one of the new header tubes is already cracked. You just pour a drink and go from there...and live the lifestyle of Italian sports cars.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
I can sympathize about cat-problems. My Maserati cats & pre-cats are long gone. After a year and a lot of money, I still can't get the CEL to quite go away...I spend several hundred a year in bribes to get my sticker...perhaps you will have to do the same. (If you see a guy with a Trident tat in jail you know it's me. )

I hope your problems get resolved. My personal philosophy with Italian sports cars is to spend the money and not get upset like I would in other situations...getting upset ruins the pleasure for me. Just recently I spent thousands getting cracked headers replaced in my Ferrari. Three hundred miles later one of the new header tubes is already cracked. You just pour a drink and go from there...and live the lifestyle of Italian sports cars.
Thanks for the insight!

However, the fact still remains I purchased a Maserati.... You know, the company that's NOT an Italian exotic like Ferrari but a mainstream Mercedes/BMW type vehicle now.... Ready to storm the US.

Good luck to the GT owners when this type of thing happens. For Gods sake its an emissions problem. MNA doesn't seem to care my car may be polluting my country. But they saved $5k. That much closer to a Fiat dealer on every corner (cough) ;)
 

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Hey, what about Lemon Law? If you have three unsucessful attempts to repair the same problem, you can invoke this law, and they will have to reimburse or replace the whole car. I recall the law applies to used vehicles in many situations. You could consult your lawyer about that, and also about whether to use the TX or MN Lemon Law.

I went thru this with my Chrysler. The trick was getting the dealership to provide repair invoices accurately describing their repair attempts. They knew I was trying to get documentation needed to start the Lemon Law process, and they all but refused to give me the repair invoices. Scum. I will never buy another Chrysler (or Chrysler by Maserati).
 

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Thanks for the insight!

However, the fact still remains I purchased a Maserati.... You know, the company that's NOT an Italian exotic like Ferrari but a mainstream Mercedes/BMW type vehicle now.... Ready to storm the US.

Good luck to the GT owners when this type of thing happens. For Gods sake its an emissions problem. MNA doesn't seem to care my car may be polluting my country. But they saved $5k. That much closer to a Fiat dealer on every corner (cough) ;)
Get your lawyer ready.... shake the trees and something will fall....

A lead pipe works great as well... old fashioned and primative but works well.:cool:
 
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