[enrico_spyder]

Dear all,
i'm writing to report a problem I have with my '02 CC spyder.

After the latest works (new F1 pump, new Alternator, newElctro pump in CC) the car was finally driving as it is meant to. It did so for around a month of everyday driving.

The car initially lost power above 5000 rpm or so. Passed that mark the engine would not pull anymore. This was after refilling at my usual gas station.

If drove lightly there would be no sign of any problem, but when pushing the gas down with some energy the car would not respond properly, as if the engine was chocking, and I would get a BLINKING CEL. As soon as I'd release the gas the CEL would shut off.

Blinking CEL light is something I'm not familiar with.

The car was drivable as a normal non-performance car.

After a second refill at a different station after few days (I normally put around 10 gallons above reserve) things got ugly, with the car barely able to move from stand still in 1st gear without choking dead. Would not be able to pass 3000 rpm without choking.

Needless to say that the car is sitting in my garage. I'm waiting the visit of a Maserati tech with the computer to check what's up with the car in a few hours (home delivery ).

I was wondering if any of you experienced anything like this.

My first thought was that the cause is bad gas as the problem seems to be related to the fuel system.

All other gauges where reading fine, temp was slightly higher than normal though nothing alerting, but everything else was reading fine.

If it really is due to bad gas... what would be the procedure to fix the issue?

I'll get back with any significant update after the computer reading

 

[GrndLkNatv]

You need to check the codes with the ODB II

You can get one yourself at Checker Auto, or wait for the tech. Either way you need to check the codes before you go any further. Bad gas will cause your problem, or bad cats, or a problem with the transmission.. All of these areas will cause the car to go into valet/safe mode.

Let us know what the codes are and then we can probably help out.

 

[enrico_spyder]

Ok here's the report from SD2...
cylinder 1,2,3 misfire...

Nothing else.
Tech suggests electrical problem as first guess...

what else could it be?

 

[GrndLkNatv]

So you picked up a P0301, P0302, and P0303

which is misfire in three cylinders which can be caused by a few things. First off it definately could be the fuel, I would start there. Secondly it can be numerous things, could be the MAF, clogged injection, dirty airfilter, fouled spark plugs, timing to high or the computer needs to be reset, etc.. So it could be electrical, or it could definately be fuel related..

I would first off go and get a can of fuel conditioner, BG (Bearing/Gear) fuel stabilizer (Stabil Store) is probably your best bet. I would then go ahead and get new plugs, clean/change the air filter, clean the MAF and then try again...

Draining the fuel tank is a chore, if you try a siphon hose you can only get about 1/3 out of the tank due to the baffle, but you are not getting the water/junk at the bottom of the tank. It's most likely some water in there, so the fuel stabilizer will help. Don't buy any other gas other than Shell VPower or AmocoBP Premium, they don't have alcohol in them and you won't run into problems running that fuel. Citgo and the rest of the other stuff is junk.

You need to pick up a cheap OBD II code reader from Checker to read and clear codes.

Right now after you have cleared your current codes you can drive the car and it will run well, until you get another misfire...

 

[[email protected]]

sounds like possibly a bad pump you have two pumps so you have to isolate the pump in the trunk, to figure out witch one is failing and to make sure its not the fuel rails witch i doubt that its the fuel rails, there are times where one pump fails and it back feeds the other causing insufficient fuel pressure or volume. hope this helps

 

[GrndLkNatv]

mc12dave...

Thanks for the tip! I will add that one to my list for sure... Could you not use a fuel pressure tester at the fuel rails to see if you were generating enough pressure? Should it not be around 7 or 8 PSI? Maybe higher?

 

[tonyswfla]

gas

shell V power has 10% ethanol

 

[enrico_spyder]

I would then go ahead and get new plugs, clean/change the air filter, clean the MAF and then try again...
You need to pick up a cheap OBD II code reader from Checker to read and clear codes.
Right now after you have cleared your current codes you can drive the car and it will run well, until you get another misfire...

Hello and thanks for the replies.
Ok, spark plugs were new from eurospares installed let's say 1000 miles ago...
same with air filter.

OBD I bought... waiting for it to come in (I'm not in the US... Arabian Gulf)

We cleared the error with the tech, restarted the car let it idle for a while and, with the car standing, we got the error again. So car will go to his garage on a flatbed as the misfire is not sporadic... it seems like these three cyls simply don't fire...

 

[GrndLkNatv]

In Colorado Shell VPower is available without Ethanol...

And I can also get 104 octane VPower Unleaded Racing Fuel at Hill Petroleum in Arvada or Boulder at the same price as I can get VPower at the pump at a shell station...

It says on the pump, E10 VPower, E5 VPower or just VPower. VPower without the alcohol is rated at 91 octane, with the E stuff it's 93.

 

[Kent Woodworth]

enrico, This sounds like one of two possible scenarios...
One could be fuel starvation,there isn't a filter, check fuel pressure at the schrader valves on the fuel rails on the engine, each rail has a valve with a blck cap on it.. Fuel pressure should be 52 psi, anything close is ok. Low pressure on what ever side means that the fuel pump on that side is defective (LH rail=LH fuel pump etc.) Before you replace the pump, make sure you have at least 12 volts at the pump connector.If not check the circuit. The pumps are not interchangeable.
What It also sounds like is a clogged cat converter. Did you bottom out or hit anything in recent memory? If it is a bad cat, most likely you will have a dent on the bottom of the cat causing the honeycomb to break apart. You can usually hear a distinct muffled sound coming from one of the mufflers. This scenario will cause a flashing check engine light. I have NEVER seen a bad fuel pump cause a flashing CEL, not to say it isn't a remote possibility.
And by the way, if it was BAD gas, then you would get random missfires on both banks of the engine, not three adjacent cylinders. Lots of luck.

 

[MaseratiBoy]

How do you know if the car is in limp mode? How does it feel and act?

 

[GrndLkNatv]

Limp Mode....

Engine will only rev to 4000rpm. It has the same low end take off as you normally do but as you get over 3000rpm, the ECU starts retarding the timing and the fuel, the point where it tops out at 4000rpm. You can put your foot to the floor, it doesn't matter.. It's also called Valet mode.

 

[FormulaDynamics]

Feel free to give us a call, we'll ask a few questions and see if we can offer any guidance or assistance.

Best Regards,
-- Jeff

 

[enrico_spyder]

enrico, This sounds like one of two possible scenarios...
What It also sounds like is a clogged cat converter. Did you bottom out or hit anything in recent memory? ... This scenario will cause a flashing check engine light. I have NEVER seen a bad fuel pump cause a flashing CEL, not to say it isn't a remote possibility.

Hello Kent,
I did run straight across a speed bump at least ONCE but not very recently... what I can tell you though is that the car made a really annoying rattling sound that I guess was from the exhaust (seemingly coming from the very middle of the bottom of the car) that would eventually become less noticeable once the car was hot.

BTW, do all cars have cats? Mine I think is Gulf specs... does that make a difference? I guess best oprion is to just look under the car...

The bad Cat Conv might also explain the "progressivness" of the symptoms... will fwd the suggestion to the Tech, car is still with me at the moment but will probably be transferred to the garage tomorrow via flatbed.

What are the best option for eventually replacing the Cats?

thanks all

 

[FormulaDynamics]

In the US there are 4 stock cats. 2 precats in the header ( very difficult to replace ) and 2 more cats further down before the X-pipe or resonator ( depending on your model ). If you've got a Euro spec car, you'll just have the 2 cats that are after the headers.

The problem with the 4 cat setup in the US is that almost always the front cats go and then clog up the rear cats ruining them as well. You'll need to either replace both sets which runs in the 4k to 6k realm with factory parts and labor. Or alternatively some people hollow out the front cats and just replace the rear cats with an alternative. We sell HP Street Cats for the Maserati that run $850 / set in comparison. You'll pass an emissions scan with this setup and they flow much better than stock. Labor should run just a few hundred bucks.

With the Euro setup, you'll just replace the 2 cats of course.

It's important to note in the US however that technically you should replace the whole system with OE parts or OE equivalent parts according to emissions laws. Since most cars have only 2 cats, it's not usually something that stands out as a problem. However I'll leave all of those decisions to the owners.

Best of luck, let us know if we can help!

 

[BigFoot]

What are the best option for eventually replacing the Cats?

Not sure if it's the best option, but this is what I am going to get: http://car.webplus.ne.jp/Parts_detail.asp?Id=wa2967&S_Id=299

The top one is the stock cat, the bottom one is a high flow one from a Japanese tuner.

 

[enrico_spyder]

Rattling noise...

One question guys...
an high pitched rattling noise, more noticeable when car is still cold, is something that could signal a bad cat? because I do have this annoying rattle...

 

[GrndLkNatv]

X-Ost..

Well as some of you know, I have some acquaintances in Maranello and they pointed me to X-Ost and I received an email back from them today. As you can see Jeff can get us a better deal on the cats from Larini, which is their competitor as the same or better level, Jeff might be able to match their price on the rear mufflers and the x pipe/central silencer via our group buy..


Dear Mark,

here is the information you requested :

rear silencer net price euro 1.050,00 or 1554.84 USD

central silencer net price euro 246,00 or 364.28 USD

kats net price euro 1.800,00 or 2665.44 USD

ecu remapping (necessary if you fit the sport kats) net euro 840,00

total amount euro 3.936,00 = special price euro 3.750,00 + transport cost

or 5553.00 USD

don’t hesitate to contact us for any further information.

With regards


Massimiliano
X-ost Maranello s.r.l.
Tel 0536-940075
Fax 0536-933799
e-mail [email protected]

 

[FormulaDynamics]

Yes, Rattling sounds on idle are a good indication that you've had a CAT breakup up you and it will continue to come apart and clog the rear CATS. The broken fragments swirl around at idle and bang into the walls of the exhaust pipe.

This is certainly something to check for. It is a fairly common problem as we put miles on these cars. The factory does not cover the damage as they often say that it's a result of a bottom out which caused the CAT to crack and then break apart. They will inspect your CATS for any abbrasion or dent ( which they will usually find ) and then deny the claim.

The good news is that once the car is fitted with our CATS, they tuck away nicely and you should not have that problem in the future.

 

[enrico_spyder]

LH Pump dead

sounds like possibly a bad pump

Well, one thing for sure I do have a bad pump, namely the one on the left side not holding pressure. Tech tested it on a bench as well and it's not holding pressure.

Could this be the whole issue? you mentioned lack of pressure in the system would probably just throw everything off.. so this could explain a failing pump on the left side and misfiring cyls on the right... correct?

Thanks for the help,