I know, you'd think 390 bhp is plenty. But I'm curious, if you threw enough cash at it, as to what's possible. The 3800GT has a pair and it sure looks like there wouldn't be an issue with room under the hood as the chassis appears to be identical. Has anyone done any research into this? Any idea on what size/brand of turbo's other similarly displaced V8's use, like the twin turbo Audi V8 that goes in the Spyker C8. I figure this will be a $20,000 project, that sound about right?
can me crazy, turbos for the 4200 CC
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You was not the first : 550 HP, 625 Nm, 29'800 euros... but with 2 compressors. Made by modena-tec, a well known Maserati tuning specialist in Germany.
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<disclaimer: the following views are entirely my own, and not representative of Maserati, Maserati of Minneapolis, or anyone else that isn't me>
Audi's twin turbo v8's use K04 turbos. Its small-ish, so it spools quickly giving fast response, but doesn't flow enough to boost high psi at high rpm. (the cfm rating) This works for their turbo'd v8, as they are running nutty high compression for a turbo motor. Normally you want to drop down to the 8:1 range, whereas Audi runs 9.8:1 on their v8. I think the K04 is rated at about 225hp when used in a singe turbo 4cyl 1.8 motor, so twin K04's should be rated in the 450-500hp range. The rs6 makes 460, but I think this is primarily due to running such high compression. The rs6 uses the same Bosch Motronic engine control version as the Maser, so reprogramming it to cope shouldn't be a huge problem. Dedicated engine management software is probably a good idea.
Hybrid turbos generally use a smaller turbine wheel (the side turned by the exhaust) and a larger compressor wheel (the one making the power) this helps a large turbo spool faster, but won't support as much power as one with equally large turbine\compressor. You have a TON of options for what to use though, totally dependant on how you want the car to drive and how much power you want to make. One turbo can have dozens of different turbine\compressor wheel combinations that will completely change the turbo's characteristics. And if you really want to get nutty, you can run a large input\output turbo, plus nitrous with switching to cut out once the turbos spool.
Twin turbo 4.2L V8... My kinda motor. Even though I usually prefer 'nasty na' to a turbo motor, when you've already got that much motor to begin with, throwing some turbos on there will make a beast. I can't wait to see some video. Riceboys everywhere are going to cry when they hear those turbos spool and that BOV swooshing.
- Mark
Audi's twin turbo v8's use K04 turbos. Its small-ish, so it spools quickly giving fast response, but doesn't flow enough to boost high psi at high rpm. (the cfm rating) This works for their turbo'd v8, as they are running nutty high compression for a turbo motor. Normally you want to drop down to the 8:1 range, whereas Audi runs 9.8:1 on their v8. I think the K04 is rated at about 225hp when used in a singe turbo 4cyl 1.8 motor, so twin K04's should be rated in the 450-500hp range. The rs6 makes 460, but I think this is primarily due to running such high compression. The rs6 uses the same Bosch Motronic engine control version as the Maser, so reprogramming it to cope shouldn't be a huge problem. Dedicated engine management software is probably a good idea.
Hybrid turbos generally use a smaller turbine wheel (the side turned by the exhaust) and a larger compressor wheel (the one making the power) this helps a large turbo spool faster, but won't support as much power as one with equally large turbine\compressor. You have a TON of options for what to use though, totally dependant on how you want the car to drive and how much power you want to make. One turbo can have dozens of different turbine\compressor wheel combinations that will completely change the turbo's characteristics. And if you really want to get nutty, you can run a large input\output turbo, plus nitrous with switching to cut out once the turbos spool.
Twin turbo 4.2L V8... My kinda motor. Even though I usually prefer 'nasty na' to a turbo motor, when you've already got that much motor to begin with, throwing some turbos on there will make a beast. I can't wait to see some video. Riceboys everywhere are going to cry when they hear those turbos spool and that BOV swooshing.
- Mark
Thanks Lionel! Modena Tec's web site rules.
Mark, would a dealer ever undertake such a warranty voiding endevor? If so, where would you get the parts?
Kevin, how about $10,000?
and same question, where would you get the parts?
Until then, I'll be playing the lottery. ...guess that damn yellow Lamborghini Gallardo at the track is going to keep passing me for the time being
Mark, would a dealer ever undertake such a warranty voiding endevor? If so, where would you get the parts?
Kevin, how about $10,000?
and same question, where would you get the parts?Until then, I'll be playing the lottery. ...guess that damn yellow Lamborghini Gallardo at the track is going to keep passing me for the time being
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I can honestly say that I don't know of any dealer that would undertake such a warranty voiding process, on any make car.
Plus, you're far better off going with a shop that has some specialization in tuning high performance cars. You could easily wreck a lot of parts, and have a very poorly set up car that would make more power than you have now, but would be a car you would never want to drive.
These motors are pretty highly tuned where they are now. Doing a simple turbo conversion is not going to net you much power. To do a conversion that will make the car substantially faster is going to be expensive. You have to address the complete engine - internals to electronic controls, the transmission - clutch\pressure plate, and possibly strengthening of internals, suspension - you have to be able to put the power down and control it.. It is not a small undertaking.
Plus, you're far better off going with a shop that has some specialization in tuning high performance cars. You could easily wreck a lot of parts, and have a very poorly set up car that would make more power than you have now, but would be a car you would never want to drive.
These motors are pretty highly tuned where they are now. Doing a simple turbo conversion is not going to net you much power. To do a conversion that will make the car substantially faster is going to be expensive. You have to address the complete engine - internals to electronic controls, the transmission - clutch\pressure plate, and possibly strengthening of internals, suspension - you have to be able to put the power down and control it.. It is not a small undertaking.
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More Power
If you want more power - reasonably cheaply - why not look at Nitrous Oxide! I gather it is really easy to fit...... though I'd never attempt it on my car!
If you want more power - reasonably cheaply - why not look at Nitrous Oxide! I gather it is really easy to fit...... though I'd never attempt it on my car!
thash said:Thanks Lionel! Modena Tec's web site rules.
Mark, would a dealer ever undertake such a warranty voiding endevor? If so, where would you get the parts?
Kevin, how about $10,000?
Until then, I'll be playing the lottery. ...guess that damn yellow Lamborghini Gallardo at the track is going to keep passing me for the time being
$10,000 would be way less than my cost. $20,000 is a price where I am not making alot of money but I'd love to do this project simply because a twin turbo Maser would bring me alot more respect as a tuner.
Regarding where I would get the parts the turbos would be from Garret or Precision. The manifolds would be custom made along with virtually everything else. We'd use a few name brand parts here and there but at least 80% of it would be custom. The $20,000 would include labor.
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Nitrous isn't too hard on a motor when done right. The fuel system can probably handle a fairly small 'dry shot' (where just nitrous, no fuel) injected in the air intake. You would definately want to tune on the dyno with an exhaust gas analyzer to be sure the car isn't running lean. Depending on what the stock fuel system is capable of, you could probably run a 25-40hp shot of nitrous. That way as long as the fuel system can handle + 10% normal injection, it should be able to keep the mixture right. Running more power needs a 'wet shot' where fuel is injected with the nitrous. This can also be done in the intake, or if you want to get crazy you can do direct nitrous injection where you fabricate a different cup for the fuel injector to sit in, with the nitrous nozzles integrated.
My buddy runs a tube chassis drag car, with a motor that produces 1200hp on c16 fuel, and then with two stages of nitrous for a total of 2000bhp. They've also added nitrous to their '72 Chevelle SS, which is also in the 1200hp range, plus a 250hp shot to start, and possibly bumping to a 400shot next spring. This Chevelle is a car that runs DOT radial tires, and is completely street legal - cats, mufflers, the whole deal. The car weighs 4000lbs, and this spring on the motor alone, before its latest rebuild, was running consistent 10.05s.
- Mark
(again, the views expressed within this post are mine, and mine alone. they are not representative of Maserati, or Maserati of Minneapolis.)
My buddy runs a tube chassis drag car, with a motor that produces 1200hp on c16 fuel, and then with two stages of nitrous for a total of 2000bhp. They've also added nitrous to their '72 Chevelle SS, which is also in the 1200hp range, plus a 250hp shot to start, and possibly bumping to a 400shot next spring. This Chevelle is a car that runs DOT radial tires, and is completely street legal - cats, mufflers, the whole deal. The car weighs 4000lbs, and this spring on the motor alone, before its latest rebuild, was running consistent 10.05s.
- Mark
(again, the views expressed within this post are mine, and mine alone. they are not representative of Maserati, or Maserati of Minneapolis.)
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