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Discussion Starter #1
Hi,

I don't know if this question has been answered before (I can't find anything through the search though).

I want to know if it's possible to change the clutch on an 04' QP myself, given I have the correct tools to open and change. I have read that the clutch needs to be calibrated. What exactly does a calibration mean? Is it calibrated with the cars computer or is it just a balancing procedure?

The reason I'm asking is not because I can't afford to change it at the shop, but because I found the material needed for the clutch change to be 1/5th of the total cost and since I have a garage and some free time I might give it a try myself if it's possible.

Regards,
Jacob
 

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If you could, you wouldn't need to ask that question.

;)

I know that sounds trite, but the reality is that you need some special Ferrari / Maserati equipment... and if you had that equipment, you almost surely know the answer to that question better than any of us.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
The short answer is maybe, but probably not. Here is a prior post I wrote on the 4200 forum, but it applies to the Duoselect QP as well.

http://www.maseratilife.com/forums/127641-post47.html
Hi,

Thanks for the reply!
Since it's not just mechanical work that needs to be done but also hooking the system up to a very expensive computer it seems like I will let the dealer change the clutch for me when it's worn.
I live in Sweden and the cost for the repair is about €4000, wich is a bit more than you pay in the US.
 

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You could put your car in a container and ship it over here for the work......but that would probably make up the difference in cost. Honestly though, there may be a good independent shop that could handle it, but it isn't something I would ever take on myself without the previous knowledge and equipment to do it properly.

Nick
 

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The physical task of changing out the clutch isn't especially difficult, if you're acclimated to replacing clutches. No real special tools are required, just ratchets, sockets, extensions and some assistance. Getting the torque tube in and out without tweaking the inner shaft is cumbersome.

Unfortunately though you do need a computer with Maserati software to reset the clutch wear indicator and adjust the engagement point. If you do not the car may not drive like it's suppose to and you'll experience unusually fast clutch wear.

Hope this helps.
 

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So, for us that have done some clutch r&r in the past, it sounds like we can theoretically handle the mechanical side... Wouldn't that be the majority of stealers labor charges? Why not knock it out and then have it towed to the local dealer for calibration? Anybody know the charge for a calibration? I would think that this would be pretty simple/quick.

For the ultra cheap you could always jump the right EEPROM for a factory reset!?!?!?
 

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Discussion Starter #8
So, for us that have done some clutch r&r in the past, it sounds like we can theoretically handle the mechanical side... Wouldn't that be the majority of stealers labor charges? Why not knock it out and then have it towed to the local dealer for calibration? Anybody know the charge for a calibration? I would think that this would be pretty simple/quick.

For the ultra cheap you could always jump the right EEPROM for a factory reset!?!?!?
I'm not sure about this. First of all I don't think the dealer is very happy with doing just the calibration.
Second of all, it is a calibration, not a factory reset. I don't know what they are doing when they calibrate it, but since there's a spare part called "Clutch balancing kit" I guess you have to balance it physically, not just the computer.
 

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Even Maserati USA says throw the balancing kit in the garbage. The clutch has a balancing mark on it. The flywheel does too. You set these 180 degrees off from each other and your are done with the balancing operation.
 

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There are two parts to the process as per the various manuals I have read.

Balancing, which is done with the clutch on the car, but in an odd state of disassembly, a bunch of weights, a computer and some random stickers and tools. Some dealers do it, some don't. So no consensus on if it is actually required. If you believe that it is, I don't see a way to do this on the car without the equipment required.

Some posts have also stated that you could also have the clutch assembly sent off to match the balance of the original to the new.

Of course many also say that the clutch is balanced from the factory, bolt and go.

The rest is done as a combo of technical knowledge and via the brains of the computer. The clutch life is reset via the ecu which should put the "curve" that it uses to adjust the clutch over time back to the start. It also is run through a self calibration routine that involves rowing through the gears after the car AND transmission/clutch are warm (which might help explain why some people complain about everything being ok cold and bad hot). Then the PIS can be fine tuned by an expert to make sure the engagement is just right.

You could just edit the firmware directly, but without know what to edit... Not to mention you would have to somehow tell it to start the calibration process. The documents are "vague" about this though, I don't know if you actually have to tell it to start or if it always automatically adjusts.

** There are some posts on the ferrarilife side that explain how to archive/replace the firmware on the ferrari TCU. Since the computers are shared, just different sw, I am assuming that this process works the same for maser.

Hopefully I can get a copy of the QP service manual soon and compare, I'm just going on the SM from the ferrari f360 since that is available online.
 

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So, for us that have done some clutch r&r in the past, it sounds like we can theoretically handle the mechanical side... Wouldn't that be the majority of stealers labor charges? Why not knock it out and then have it towed to the local dealer for calibration? Anybody know the charge for a calibration? I would think that this would be pretty simple/quick.

For the ultra cheap you could always jump the right EEPROM for a factory reset!?!?!?
Man, I would love to see a youtube video of you working on this car.

Nick
 

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Do the clutch and tow it to the dealer to set the Kiss point. Should charge you an hour or two max.

I just had my clutch replaced so I know the process intimately. I was there doing the clutch and much of the Kiss point procesure with the tech.

No balancing required per my earlier note. You will need a new clutch AND a new flywheel. Align the marks 180 degrees off. That is the answer. That is what MOA tells the techs to do. Really no more discussion needed on the topic on the theroreticals...

Disassemble driveline, replace clutch, install as noted with new flywheel, re-assemble. tow to dealer for Kiss point setting. Replacing the throwout bearing and pilot bearing and main bellhousing bearing are likely a good idea while doing this operation too if you have any squeeling noises at all when taking up the clutch in 1st or 2nd gear.
 

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trygve11, did the transmission actually have to come out or could it be left in and worked around to unbolt the clutch and flywheel?

I've heard both ways, but that couldn't actually be the answer. The place I read where the transmission could stay is said you just have to support the transmission and move it back and out of the way a bit to pull the shaft off and out, then remove the housing and viola. Still not easy, just tedious and heavy.
 

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Tranny must come out. That is the easiest part of the damn procedure!
 

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Trans does not NEED to come out. If you've done the job a number of times, you can find the sweet spot that will allow you to slide the gearbox back enough to get room to drop the torque tube. That is true information, from my personal experience.

The balancing procedure is a factory assembly formality. The clutch kit is already balanced and can be installed as is.

The part of the procedure that is necessary is resetting the clutch wear reading values and adjusting the PIS. Skipping these steps will result in problematic behavior and accelerated clutch wear. you also need to bleed the hydraulic system of air for proper clutch actuation.

The dealers I have worked around will accept a car towed in and perform these tasks for you. They will generally charge 2hrs labor to do so. This of course depends on the attitude of your specific dealer, and the quality of the work depends on the attitude of the technician that did not get the actual clutch job.
 

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Jacob C.:
I'll will be in Sweden in November....I work for a company based in Sweden...too bad I am in noway a DIY guy or maybe I would stop by and lend a hand...lol
 

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I'm not worried about the mechanical end of it at all. I have access to a lift and tranny tools for $100 and a 12 pack. For you guys thinking of doing this, I wouldnt dare tackle it on your back!

For the lot of you that are scratching your head right now wondering why this would even be considered...Well (for me atleast), not only am I a cheap bastard, I love to learn new things when it comes to exotics. It's great small talk too. Take it from a guy who did his own 04' Gallardo Clutch not even 4mo's into owning it (without a hitch). This was a hardware update to an 05 assembly too so every Lambo event attended would have another enthusiest approaching me with "So, you're the guy ah?", proceeded by any pointers they need. I would always tell people how EASY it was. Knowing that they would run from the project if they heard anything else. A lot of clutches got done at home that year thanks to me! If I could do it all over again I would, hence the thread participation!

After hearing some great responses I feel much more confident. As far as Dealer hours/costs go, I think it would be necessary to tell a pretty good white lie too... Otherwise you run the risk of doing it all for nothing. Mech can claim it was done improperly, withought a balancer etc. because he missed out on some good charges..

Off the top of my head:

"Umm; I bought it off of a widow who told me that her husband died 1/2 way through the service. She agreed to allow me to take it to a known "honourable" dealer for an estimate on calibration costs. She showed me an invoice that had everything completed except this proceedure. She REALLY needs $$ for funeral costs and is relying on this sale in order to bury him...I told her that I would be honored to help but if the costs were anything more than <insert cheapness here> to fix than I wouldnt be able to. I felt bad saying it because I could tell she was about to cry... but I cant get ripped off either, you know? Hopefully this invoice isnt a lie, what did I do with that paper?... Anyway if it's quick and easy this should be great for everybody, otherwise she may have to dig a hole in the backyard (chuckle/chuckle <nudge> <nudge>)".

Yeah, I'm a dirty rotton scandral when it comes to manipulation. But a lot of you are right, if you dont come up with something good the mech might gouge on principle alone. I've seen this happen a couple of times!

----From a guy shopping for a Maser now, anticipating clutch failure-----
 
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