Maserati Forum banner

1 - 20 of 22 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
321 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I was reading an article about a German tuner that extracted 14 HP out of the Ferrari V8 engine simply by adding a fuel cooling system.

What would the benefits be of fitting such a system combined to the DBW and ECU chip that FD is providing? If it delivered what it promises, combined to FD's engine chip we'd be getting close to 450HP on the 4.2 V8.

Jeff, any thoughts on that? Have you run any tests with a fuel cooling system?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,067 Posts
I was reading an article about a German tuner that extracted 14 HP out of the Ferrari V8 engine simply by adding a fuel cooling system.

What would the benefits be of fitting such a system combined to the DBW and ECU chip that FD is providing? If it delivered what it promises, combined to FD's engine chip we'd be getting close to 450HP on the 4.2 V8.

Jeff, any thoughts on that? Have you run any tests with a fuel cooling system?
Fuel cooling does add power, it allows for more/denser fuel to enter into the combustion chamber which means more power... I have looked at that tuner's claims and they are most likely true but the question I have it what did they use to cool the fuel. I have found fuel return line radiators for underneath the car but wouldn't want that under my car nor do I want it front of my current radiator, etc... Jeff has a lot more good info I am sure but you are on track here.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,309 Posts
Is the 'cool' relative to ambient temp or is there an absolute temp that needs to be achieved?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,067 Posts
Is the 'cool' relative to ambient temp or is there an absolute temp that needs to be achieved?

Fuel needs to be cool relative to ambient temp. This is also why the FIA closely regulate fuel temperature in F1. BMW was accussed of cheating last year because their fuel temps were below 27C or so but it turned out to be a fault thermometer.

http://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=445

We used to experience this with snowmobile racing... We would remove the fuel tank and run extra fuel line down the length of the tunnel between the tunnel and the seat so the cold snow and ice that caked on the tunnel could really make the fuel cold. On hot days (anything over 32 degrees) we experienced better performance this way, more horsepower, etc since we were racing on solid ice and the sled would tend to run very warm. We used to also put graphic gun lube on our hifax to keep them lubricated as well.

http://www.ussaprostar.net/
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
744 Posts
This makes sense. In principle it is similar to the intercooler on a turbocharged engine (cooler temps = higher air density = more HP). I would assume the principle also applies to fuel.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,067 Posts
Wouldn't the energy needed for the fuel cooling system reduce the performance of such system in the first place?
Depends on the cooling system. A radiator in the fuel line takes no energy, just as running the fuel line the length of the tunnel on a snowmobile. Ferrari Lemans guys use the air conditioner to cool the fuel, it takes 7hp to spin the airconditioner but they gain 35 to 40 horses with it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
321 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
So, does anyone sell a fuel cooling system that will fit to the GS? I would gladly combine it with the FD mods to get maximum power out of the engine!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
744 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,767 Posts
I'm sorry but i don't really see the point. If your engine produces 400hp, then a 14hp increase is just silly.

If 400hp is not enough, just buy a faster car... right? or if a new car isn't for you, then get a decent upgrade, like the 550hp (4200 and GS engines) from LeoNardo (http://www.dimex-group.com/en/tuning/leonardo/leonardo-home.html).

14hp... pffttt...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
321 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
I'm sorry but i don't really see the point. If your engine produces 400hp, then a 14hp increase is just silly.

If 400hp is not enough, just buy a faster car... right? or if a new car isn't for you, then get a decent upgrade, like the 550hp (4200 and GS engines) from LeoNardo (http://www.dimex-group.com/en/tuning/leonardo/leonardo-home.html).

14hp... pffttt...
I've noticed that Dimex is offering a "patented" fuel cooler with one of their tuning packages.

My plan is not to go for 14 HP: my plan is to add the 15 HP gained from fuel cooling plus the 30 HP from FD's chip tuning and free flow air filter combination, to get the GS to a healthy 445-450 HP. Without spending the crazy money of the Dimex kits that involve new camshafts, new exhaust and even a new engine (the 4.7liter conversion, awesome but too expensive - then I'd rather buy a Granturismo S and tune it to 520 HP without rebuilding the engine!!).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
744 Posts
I agree with Maranello. These engines are highly tuned. Getting big power increases either involves huge money and risk (superchargers etc.) or small additive gains.

25HP for the chip + 35HP for the exhuast + 15HP for a fuel cooler + 3HP for an air filter + 10HP for some pulleys etc. etc. Eventually it adds up to some real power!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
321 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
I agree with Maranello. These engines are highly tuned. Getting big power increases either involves huge money and risk (superchargers etc.) or small additive gains.

25HP for the chip + 35HP for the exhuast + 15HP for a fuel cooler + 3HP for an air filter + 10HP for some pulleys etc. etc. Eventually it adds up to some real power!
Well, this engine is not a million miles away from the F430 - the basic architecture is closely related. The extra 1000 rpm of the F430's engine account for maybe 40 HP, but IMO this leaves the potential for the GS to gain at least 50 HP without doing anything potentially destructive (e.g. without pushing the rev limiter higher, as some tuners do).

Regarding Flashgordon's statement: what exhaust mods can give me such a huge power increase? I thought the GS already had a very well tuned exhaust (largely responsible for the extra 10 HP over the stock Coupe). I wasn't even thinking of modifying it.

As for the fuel cooler, I don't think Dimex will sell it without all the rest of the kit. Formula Dynamics, any suggestions here?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
744 Posts
The GS will be a bit less as it has a less restrictive centre section and mufflers than a Coupe/ Spyder. Depacking the front pre-cats gives about 10-15, high flow main cats another 10, and Larini or Tubi mufflers maybe another 5-10.
 

·
Performance Specialist
Joined
·
4,488 Posts
We've investigated fuel cooling actually and I have a prototype product that we built for a race car that we are planning to use as a starting point for the Maserati. I think that 14hp is realistic. This is one of many irons in the fire we have at the moment for the Maserati's!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
744 Posts
We've investigated fuel cooling actually and I have a prototype product that we built for a race car that we are planning to use as a starting point for the Maserati. I think that 14hp is realistic. This is one of many irons in the fire we have at the moment for the Maserati's!
Sign me up Jeff
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1 Posts
You can make your own fuel cooler that will work much better than anything you can buy for less than half the price. All you need is coper tubing of the same size as the exaisting fuel lone and a metal sports water bottle with a screw on lid. You would also need to have someone who knows how to weld. So what you do is take the copper tubing and wrap it around something slightly smaller than the metal water bottle as tight as possible but still leaving spaces between the tubing. Next drill 2 holes in the metal bottle one on top and one on bottom drill a 3rd hole in the middle on the cap for ventilation. Cut the metal bottle in half and put the wound up coper line inside of the bottle sticking each end of the coper tubing out of the holes drilled in the top and bottom of the bottle. Next weld the bottle (water tight) back together next attach the bottle to your existing main fuel line somewhere accessible. Take the lid off of the now welded bottle with the copper wound up inside and fill it 3/4th the way up with dry ice and then fill the bottle with water. You now have a super cooled fuel with no power taken from the motor.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
148 Posts
That 'fuel cooler' design is great if you're going to drag race your Maser, or enter it in an endurance race of 20 miles or less . . .

To paraphrase Enzo Ferrari: Chilled fuel is for people who don't know how to build an engine.

What you're describing is far different than an aftercooler or direct induction. Time to study the basics, Cody. Pounds in equal power out. Short-termed fixes won't get the job done, unless your needs are also short term.

Doc
 
1 - 20 of 22 Posts
Top