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Are you guys tired of hearing this too?

6776 Views 40 Replies 14 Participants Last post by  squid
I'm tired of hearing about the "Ferrari Connection" as a selling point or a morale booster.
Maserati is awesome in it's own right!
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Not at all!!! I think there is a huge ferrari link especially with the QP that's why I think it this car is such an incredible value proposition. And the more I visit the dealer/service the more I notice this link. Ferrari coach builder handbuilds the body and Ferrari sprays it. The QP motor is the F430 block (slightly smaller displacement for commercial reasons) but indeed many of the moving elements are made less critical that's why it only revs to 7500 (1000 less than F430)....the Ferrari link is undeniable though. Look at the QP drivers mirror outside and an F430 one.....notice the little sensor at the bottom on both......The F1 is basically a Ferrari F360 F1 and the suspension is a family of the scaglietti's I believe. Maserati just assembles everything and stiches the leather to the dash......Big question is what will happen now that they got linked to Alfa???? But Ferrari is a small volume producer and having some things in comon with Maserati can be helpfull also for them (to keep costs under control to use the same providers: Brembo brakes, Magnetti Marelli gears, Delphi airco and suspension etc) as long as Maserti doesn't get too close to them eating away market for Ferrari.....The big question though: will we see so much Ferrari in the next Maserati or will it be more an Alfa. That will be crucial for the value of the new cars.....Looking out to see which motor they'll put in the new Coupe and if we'll see the same block later in the F480(?) again.....
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I do understand your point Maseratifan but don't forget Maserati was only just relaunched and the big jump only came after a tie-up with Ferrari. The press was not too impressed with the new coupees back then and only got excited once they spotted Ferrari's hand in it. So I agree but think it is far too early. Maserati has to survive 1st and for that they need to use their capacity to make 10.000 cars/year (think they are half now). I think they will need the Ferrai-link a while longer. How many would buy a 100k Maserati with an improved Alfa motor at the Alfa dealer even if its stunning? Look how much trouble Jaguar has as each car reminds of the Ford link....Aston is also Ford but nobody mentions that....So right now Maserati can become Fiat's Jaguar or Fiat's Aston.....They will have to be very carefull to keep in "Aston teritory" and the safest bet for now would be to keep a Ferrai link.....and I am not complaining about that! Would love a Ferrari but 200k+ is a hard nut. Moreover I need 4 seats and a real trunk.....
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Maybe somebody that has actually visited the factory can add some comments???? I only saw videos (30min each) of ferrari and maserati factories inside and the Maserati one looks very very different. They just assemble the parts they get from their providers (and Ferrari is a big one!!!). The only thing the Maserati video showed was the fitting of the leather on dash and door panels and assembling the cars......The Ferrari video was very different with redhot alluminium being caried around to make parts out of it, making of motors, testing motors etc.....The F430 (not F360) and Maserati V8 are cousins but Ferrari puts less "precise" (can't find a better word) moving parts in the Maserati one so that it can only rev to 7.500rpm safely. The Maserati one was also designed to be used more (daily driver). Does this make Maserati inferior?!? No, the opposite I would say.....they are (were?) linked to one of the best sport car engeneers in the world! And thanks to that they make exciting beautifull cars at half the cost of a Ferrari. And srry CDF but I don't believe Maserti could teach Ferrari a lot a few years ago......In the 50ies it was different...however it is fair to say that the F430 is the first Ferrari V8 (don't know about V12) that can be used moreoften and has cut down maintenance dramatically (belt changes etc) so maybe just maybe Maserati did have a small contribution.....
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Eurodino, I did mention the glorious 50ies! However even then Maserati won 2 F1 world championships (with Fangio 1954 & 1957) but Ferrari 4 in that decade.....By the way Lotus won many F1 championships in the 60ies and 70ies, Alfa Romeo the 1st 2 F1 championships ever and Cooper (manufacturer) won 2 F1 championships, 16 F1 races and several rally championships and what happened to them?

Maserati is a great name in the performance car history and I am glad they got new air.....I love their recent cars. Much better value and excitement than an Audi S, BMW M, Jaguar R or MB AMG (and on par with Aston Martin). I just hope Fiat does the right things to keep it that way and a link to Ferrari is not a bad thing at all for a (long) while to come....I am not waiting for a Alfa tuner like AMG or M! And life will get more difficult from 2008 for Maserati when besides the established S/M/AMG germans you also get the porsche panamera and Aston 4 doors competing with their star product the QP.....

So the success of the new Coupe GT and updated/future QP will be extremely important for their survival! I think Maserati should be the every-day users-friendly (space, trunk, 10.000miles +/year etc) sports car competing Porsche 911/Panamera, Aston DB9/V8/4door or even Bentley GT while Ferrari the hard core exotic supercar you take out for a spin occasionally.....
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interesting MVP! How close are they? Is it actually true that all moving parts in the motor are different or is the lower Maserati rev. limit more an ECU (software) thing to make it more of a "daily driver" ????? (and step less on Ferrari toes)......If you matimatically rev the 4200 to Ferrari redline you get around 475Hp the extra 15Hp at the F430 then could be intake and exhausts differences....
comparing motors

Ferrai F430 motor vs Maserati 4.2 V8

comparing the 2 motors specs you'll see that the block is the same with the same cylinder spacing and 92mm bore, 4OHC with variable timing, 32 valve, dry sump, combined water/oil unit etc. etc.

However the Ferrari version has a 1mm longer stroke (81mm vs 80mm) resulting in a slightly higher compression ratio 11.3:1 vs 11.1:1 (+1,8%) and slightly bigger displacement (+1,5%) giving the Ferrari some extra power (13Hp?).

So obviously the Ferrari piston connection rods are slightly shorter (=longer stroke - shorter rods also generate more cylinder wear in a same block although not sure if the difference is marginal or not to make Maserati more a "daily driver"???).

What about pistons? rings? Well according to the F430 owner's manual its engine can consume double the amount of motor oil / 1000km compared to the Maserati guidance (manual) so probably at least the piston rings are also different.

Crankshaft? Bearings? Camshafts? Valves? Chains? etc.... no idea.....(MVP?). Official line is that they changed all of these moving parts also to allow higher revving.

Motor software is obviously different and finally Intake and exhaust manifolds are chamged making up for the power difference of the F430 not explained by reving the Maserati to 8.500rpm and compression/stroke/displacement....

So these motors are cousins, sisters or twins with the Maserati one a version to be reved less to spare it more and do more miles/year and maybe using some slighty less critical (=cheaper?) moving parts. Are all the moving parts really different or is besides the pistons and longer stroke mainly just software? Probably a well kept secret....untill some people selling parts or working on these motors open up
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Thanks MVP!!! I don't know anything about chip tuning (well 10 years ago I had it in my Golf VR6 and enjoyed it) but searching on this board I found out that Eurotek increases the rev limit of the Maserati in some cases upto 8.000rpm, correct? So Eurotek must be sure the motor can handle that! (Here in Europe we use 98 gasoline). I did not find real dyno before and after results though. Anybody has them?

Another question I have besides my QP user's manual, also a English one (US?) and 3 different QP sales folders and they don't seem to agree on where the motor makes the 400Hp!!! Some sources say @7.000rpm and some at 7.250rpm. I know the QP was updated to comply with (o.a. Euro4) emmission levels last year somewhere but thought they only made the gears a bit longer to get there (indeed slightly slower acceleration for the updated version) or did they also change the motor management? At which rpm is top hp and what is the redline?
I am a bit puzzled after seeing MVP gifs: isn't ferrari always using flat-plane crankshafts in its V8's??? I tought the one in the diagram is a cross-plane or am I wrong????

(1st picture attached cross-plane and 2nd flat-plane according to my info)


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from autozine on the F430:

"The 4308cc V8 is an all-new design instead of an evolution of the old V8, whose history can date back to the 348-era. It shares the basic aluminum block with Maserati’s 4.2-litre V8, with 1mm longer stroke accounting for the increased capacity. Like the 360 engine, it runs a flat-plane crankshaft (unlike Maserati's fully-balanced cross-plane crankshaft), sacrifices a little refinement in exchange for lightness, hence higher rev and power. Other reciprocating moving parts are also lightweight items, including forged aluminum pistons and titanium connecting rods. In order to enhance thermal efficiency, the engine runs a 11.3:1 compression, up from the 360 and Maserati’s 11.1:1.

The cylinder head also employs a better variable valve timing system - the outgoing 360 engine employed only a discreet-type VVT at the exhaust valves while the overcrowded intake valves did not have VVT. In contrast, the new V8 employs a continuous-type VVT at both intake and exhaust camshafts like the Maserati V8. This ensure optimized valve timing and larger overlapping to improve output across the whole rev range"

Can somebody confirm this about the crankshaft???? My Mase surely sounds and vibrates at idle like a flatplane one?????
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More from autozine on the I expected (titanium) con rods are different but intakes/exhaust moving parts (camshafts, valves etc) seem the same..... Puzzling is the crankshaft though......Maybe comparing cylinder firing order and engine weight is helpfull...:

"Maranello's engineers understand that for a GT like Maserati, torque and smoothness are far more important than as in the Ferrari sports car while outright power is relatively less important. Therefore the Maserati V8 employs a cross-plane crankshaft with full counter-balances instead of the Ferrari's high-revving but vibrating flat-plane crankshaft. Because it does not need to rev into 8000rpm zone like the Ferrari, expensive titanium connecting rods and are replaced with conventional forged steel con-rods"
Well more and more websites come up with this:

"Maserati 90 degree V8 engine with crankcase and cylinder heads in aluminum alloy and refined silicon and crankshaft in refined steel, with cranks balanced individually on five main bearings.Timing is by two bench -tested chain-driven cams, four valves per cylinder controlled by hydraulic cups. Dry sump engine lubrication with the pumps and cooling pumps all in a single unit. Ignition and injection systems are integrated Bosch; electronic drive-by-wire accelerator control."

That indicates a cross-plane crankshaft indeed!!!!

EDIT: Disregard that since the official F430 manual also states that its uses a "single piece crankshaft in hardened steel, individually balanced resting on 5 main journals with bustings". All V8's have 5 main bearings anyhow but I thought that only cross-plane got balanced......they got balanced more than flat-plane and that is why they don't rev so well

However more and more sources point to a Maserati cross-plane motor and F430 flat-plane and that would be a big diference.......But it doesn't sound nor feel that way? Fire order of Mase is 1-8-6-2-7-3-4-5 but I can not make a conclusion from that (a specialist?)


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no reason to sell the car!!!
Digging into the subject over european long w.e. it is clear that the F430 motor and Maserati V8 are very related but there are differences. People who visited the Ferrari plant do say both are made at the same production line. However they also mentioned seeing Maserati crankshafts and Ferrari ones. The biggest difference is that: Maserati has a balanced cross-plane crank reving less also on the back of steel con rods and other pistons (oil consumption guidance 0,5litre/1000km) while Ferrari is a higher reving flat-plane crank with titanium rods and higher performance pistons (guidance of 1-2litre oil consumption/1000km). However the balance/leightweight rod difference is not big since I think the Mase weights 184kg and F430 183kg. There is also no physical place in the identic crankhouse to use big balances I guess. Finally valve timing mecanisms are the same with sporty in-& exhaust overlap and that is probably why even the balanced Maserati does vibrate more than other balanced V8's like BMW.

Anyway the differences make your Maserati more a daily driver so you don't have to keep it sleeping in the garage!!!! I love mine and use it daily!

Let's see what the next Maserati motor will look like. The Alfa 8C is rumoured to have a flat-plane crank.....

For bankgrounf on crankshafts:
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An article I had forgotten about but read again yesterday. Fits very well in this discussion Maserati-Ferrari....Jeremy Clarkson calls the QP the "bastard son" of Ferrari and actally calls it better than a Ferrari.......A better thumps up from clarkson impossible.....,,12529-1470519,00.html
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