Maserati Forum banner
1 - 20 of 22 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
744 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I had the full suite of FD mods installed about two weeks ago and also had a laser alignment, force balancing, new tires, corner weighting etc. performed by a local exotic tuner. I drove the car about 10 hours (max) since the work. I was happy with the work, but shortly after picking up the car, I noticed a very slight vibration at high speeds - nothing serious but noticeable. The tech said it was due to weight distribution anomalies of the tires that the balancing machine software failed to correct and he said to bring it in and he would fix it (BYW - I thought that was exactly what force balancing was supposed to do).

Yesterday, I was driving at a slow speed and noticed a serious vibration in the driver side rear wheel. I had my buddy walk behind the car as I drove by and he was shocked to see about 1.5" of wobble in the wheel. We checked the lug nuts and they were all very, very loose (e.g. ready to fall right off). A quick check of the torque on the other wheels revealed an average torque of 60 ft/ lbs (well under the normally accepted 90 ft/lbs). When I phoned the shop to voice my concern, the owner went in to immediate denial. He said that it was impossble for his tech to make that kind of mistake and said that I should have re-checked the torque myself after 60 miles of driving and that it was not unusual for wheels to "unloosen". He said that the tech should have told me this and hence did offer to stand behind any resultant damage though regardless of whether it was his fault or not, so this was definitely a step in the right direction. My concern, of course, was that I was driving that car at very high speeds in the interim and needless to say, the results could have been deadly - I am rattled.

I then spoke to the tech directly and he said that every wheel set up goes through a two stage torqueing process and he then suggested that the only explanation is that someone must have deliberately loosened the bolts on my wheels (even though the car is kept in a locked alarmed garage). He says that even if by some coincidence the wheels were only tightened to 60 lbs, the taper on the lugs nuts would have prevented loosening.

I find his explanation a lot less plausible than my theory that the bolts were only tightened to 60 ft/ lbs in the first place and then not torqued to the 90 spec, resulting in gradual loosening over the next 100 miles.

In over 30 years of driving, I have never had a wheel loosen like this nor have I ever had to re-torque a wheel after every 60 miles of driving. My feeling is that if the wheels were torqued to the proper spec, they would have never loosened in the first place.

What are your thoughts?
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
4,261 Posts
This is way beyond my limited technical knowledge but I am just glad that you didn't have a serious accident with this!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,740 Posts
so this is the shop that all your work?
you should be worried much much more.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
478 Posts
The guy probably made a big mistake and had enough time to get his game face on and cover his ass with the sabotage story.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
660 Posts
so this is the shop that all your work?
you should be worried much much more.
Could not agree more with M!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21 Posts
hi

I am glad to hear that you and your pride and joy are both safe.
something that might be worth considering is that when you have wheels refurbed its important to make sure the garge that fits the wheels that they clean then paint of the wheels on the inside face of the wheels because when the wheels get the paint moves and allows the wheel to become loose!
This will only happen if you drive your car hard, if you are worried that your wheels might be at risk then it will be worth checking the wheel bolts once you have been out for a drive.
i hope this helps in any way
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
456 Posts
I had the full suite of FD mods installed about two weeks ago and also had a laser alignment, force balancing, new tires, corner weighting etc. performed by a local exotic tuner. I drove the car about 10 hours (max) since the work. I was happy with the work, but shortly after picking up the car, I noticed a very slight vibration at high speeds - nothing serious but noticeable. The tech said it was due to weight distribution anomalies of the tires that the balancing machine software failed to correct and he said to bring it in and he would fix it (BYW - I thought that was exactly what force balancing was supposed to do).

Yesterday, I was driving at a slow speed and noticed a serious vibration in the driver side rear wheel. I had my buddy walk behind the car as I drove by and he was shocked to see about 1.5" of wobble in the wheel. We checked the lug nuts and they were all very, very loose (e.g. ready to fall right off). A quick check of the torque on the other wheels revealed an average torque of 60 ft/ lbs (well under the normally accepted 90 ft/lbs). When I phoned the shop to voice my concern, the owner went in to immediate denial. He said that it was impossble for his tech to make that kind of mistake and said that I should have re-checked the torque myself after 60 miles of driving and that it was not unusual for wheels to "unloosen". He said that the tech should have told me this and hence did offer to stand behind any resultant damage though regardless of whether it was his fault or not, so this was definitely a step in the right direction. My concern, of course, was that I was driving that car at very high speeds in the interim and needless to say, the results could have been deadly - I am rattled.

I then spoke to the tech directly and he said that every wheel set up goes through a two stage torqueing process and he then suggested that the only explanation is that someone must have deliberately loosened the bolts on my wheels (even though the car is kept in a locked alarmed garage). He says that even if by some coincidence the wheels were only tightened to 60 lbs, the taper on the lugs nuts would have prevented loosening.

I find his explanation a lot less plausible than my theory that the bolts were only tightened to 60 ft/ lbs in the first place and then not torqued to the 90 spec, resulting in gradual loosening over the next 100 miles.

In over 30 years of driving, I have never had a wheel loosen like this nor have I ever had to re-torque a wheel after every 60 miles of driving. My feeling is that if the wheels were torqued to the proper spec, they would have never loosened in the first place.

What are your thoughts?
When I was 17 years old. I had a 1971 chevy chevelle 350 block/my first car/handme down from a relative.. was doing about 90 mph down certain stretches of PCH in Malibu.
later that evening, while at a stop sign near my home, I begin to accelerate and the entire driver side front wheel falls off. This is at 1/2mph. supposedly, the cotter pin was not installed properly.

Smile. Your going to be here for a long time. :) ;)
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
5,887 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
513 Posts
Fwiw

on almost every tire shops invoice I have ever used they do mention to re-tourque the wheels after 100 miles. not sure if it is a CYA clause, as I have never had to do it myself, but it is industry standard written in all invoices
 

·
Vendor
Joined
·
4,728 Posts
I'm glad you're safe and that you were able to notice the problem yourself and find the culprit. I would suggest that you take the car back to the shop and have the shop foreman re-check all the work to be safe. Shops do make mistakes, it is possible. They have tremendous liability in this situation, for your safety and your car. I would check your car in and get a receipt noting the re-work. Leave your car with them to perform this check. This way if there are any other issues they can fix them on the spot without having to admit them to you. This may sound strange but a foreman may not be as thorough or check his shops work as dillegently with you standing there. Give them time to do the job right and fix everything they may see. Let them know you really want to make sure everything is correct. Perhaps mention that you're bringing your car to another shop next week for more work and that you want to make sure that they do not blame any damage on you without their ability to inspect and correct.

Just remember that because of the tremendous liability with a situation like this they may not be as honest as they should be. However they will most likely care enough to correct any problems. Their reputation should be important to them if they're working on Maseratis.

FWIW, I've never seen a set of Maser wheels loosen on their own if torqued properly. A re-torque is recommended although it's rarely needed in my experience. Of course it's always worth re-checking. However that's what it is really a re-check of an important safety item.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,067 Posts
The mechanic screwed up and instead of being honest

he is playing CYA... It's best if he said, OMG, I must have made a mistake, please come in so I can check it all over one more time.... I would not be doing business there again unless they can be honest and you should advise us here so we don't make that mistake as well...

A friend of mine who is a very serious racer, http://snydermotorsports.tripod.com/, had this happen to his spec 944 Porsche race car last week, but instead of the wheels, the tech left the sway bar bolts, and the steering bolts all loose. After getting ready to put the car on the trailer to head to the race, they noticed the front wheels doing the wobble. The shop owner had them bring the car in and re-checked everything himself and there of course was no charge.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
357 Posts
The technician screwed up. It happens. I re-torque all lug nuts after a shop works on them. Usually the problem is over-torqueing, though my son had a situation like yours between the shop and home. I'm glad you and your car are safe. Remember, nobody will look out for you like you will. Hopefully, the tech learned a lesson in the importance of being meticulous. It's easy to screw up on something one has done a thousand times.
 

·
Moderator
Joined
·
5,887 Posts
I would suggest that you take the car back to the shop and have the shop foreman re-check all the work to be safe. Shops do make mistakes, it is possible. They have tremendous liability in this situation, for your safety and your car. I would check your car in and get a receipt noting the re-work. Leave your car with them to perform this check. This way if there are any other issues they can fix them on the spot without having to admit them to you.
Sounds like great advice. At least the shop owner was willing to stand behind any damage. I would expect them to at least give your car a full inspection to make sure all is cool now.



100% free webcam site! | Awesome chicks and it is absolutely free! | Watch free live sex cam - easy as 1-2-3
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
744 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Thanks guys for your thoughts (and concerns). Some really good advice here. I will be taking the car back next week and I will indeed have them re-check everything as Jeff suggests.

A friend who was with me last weekend in the car (on a very, very fast drive after the work was done) said he felt sick to his stomach when I told him what happened. I realize mistakes get made but this is a little close for comfort.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
793 Posts
---But man...you seem pretty mellow about the whole incident.

Best way to be so as not to let the matter get blown up!

Have to agree with Jeff of FD. Lugs bolts don't loosen unless they were not properly tightened!

It's possible the lightly tightened them anticipating using the torque wrench but they never did which is obvious from what you said!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
173 Posts
It happened to me once too when I just got my previous car from service at Lamborghini dealer near DC (not FMoW). I drove for less than 50 miles and I feel the vibration at the back. The bolts are loose so I had to tighten them at the side of the road. It was the pain. From my experience, even the exotic car dealer that charge you arm and leg could screw up too. For us, not average drivers, should able to detect that kind of vibration and stop to take a look. But for normal or ignorant drivers, the result can be deadly. For me, I usually do not check the torque when get my car from service but I always aware of the vibration that is not normal.
pganmol
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
744 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I am actually on slow burn!

It's good you're alright...

But man...you seem pretty mellow about the whole incident.
I want to see what they do when I take the car back in before I really let loose. I agree with a lot of the posts here that mistakes do happen (and I also think everyone should get a second chance) but the fact that they denied responsibility right away is the part that is really bothersome.

I am certainly having second thoughts about who to use for the next phase of my FD modification program...
 

·
Vendor
Joined
·
4,728 Posts
Controlled and calculated is the way to be until you see what they do face to face. I hope they step up and take the appropriate consideration and steps to make sure your vehicle is safe and it doesn't happen again to anyone else. It's justifyable to be shaken and upset that it happened. Find out which tech did the work and make sure he knows that it happened.

If they continue to deny and be unhelpful, then you'll know how to handle it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
793 Posts
--I am certainly having second thoughts about who to use for the next phase of my FD modification program...
You should and I'd recommend you find another shop.

Errors do occur and it's always better to own up to them to reinforce credibility.

I don't think your shop was responsible to you.
 
1 - 20 of 22 Posts
Top