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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Just got the Service paperwork in the mail from the dealer, they charged me 7.5 hours of labor for changing fluids only. Does it really take that much time to do that?

It was $1,150 for labor + $450 for parts. Total $1,600.

They also upgraded software, adjusted clutch "kiss" point and fixed my seats, but under warranty. I think...

I'll apreciate your input guys, before I go back to talk with them.

Thank you in advance.
 

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Seemes excessive. Perhaps it was two or three mechanics, each with a few hours spent on the car doing different things? :confused:
 

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I just did my own in about

4 hours..

I drained the tranny and refilled it, changed the Oil and Filter, drained the coolant and re-filled, changed the plugs, checked the CC oil, put in a tiny bit of Mobil 1 Full Synthetic ATF, and I did that while playing with my kids in the garage which means if I tried to I could have done it in less than two hours.. I would say your service center has either hired idiots or over charged....

They must be using the flat rate manual from Italy which says drink a Martini between items and go out for smoke...
 

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Tranny and coolant and F1?

How do you do those? What fluids do you suggest?

if im not mistaken... The coolant is a gel right?
 

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I drained the tranny and refilled it, changed the Oil and Filter, drained the coolant and re-filled, changed the plugs, checked the CC oil, put in a tiny bit of Mobil 1 Full Synthetic ATF...
Don't forget the brake fluid flush.
 

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Coolant

I forgot to put in the brake flush, real easy with this cool tool from Griots...

http://www.griotsgarage.com/product/tools/specialty+tools/pneumatic+oil-liquid+extractor.do

Does oil as well, no mess... I put in Mobil 1 Full Synthetic DOT 4 brake fluid..


As for the Coolant, well I buy de-mineralized water and

http://www.valvoline.com/pages/products/product_detail.asp?product=11

DEX-COOL.. And then for the Air Conditioner, which I am going to check this weekend, well I have a nice little tool that checks the pressure level of the coolant so I will add some if needed.... Either way that's about a 15 minute deal..

I check the CC F1 Pump Oil as well, the tranny oil is easy to change, take the plug out of the bottom of the Tranny, let it drain, take out the brass plug on the passenger side of the tranny, it's about 1/3 the way up, fill with Mobil 1 75W-90 full synthetic differential lube until it runs out the hole, then put in the plug, go for a drive! BTW, get an oil hand pump to put it in, to hard to get the bottle in there.. Cost is 5 bucks at Checker. BTW, it takes .74 Gallons or 2.8 liters..
You can do the 18k, 45k, inspections yourself, when you do the whole thing costs less than $300.00, and I do a complete 18k type service every year..
 

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The actual number of hours a job takes has nothing to do with the hours on the bill. Service centers bill out jobs based on pre-determined number of hours for each task. Things are done this way so great mechanics can make better money and slow mechanics don't just run the bills up.

You should receive an invoice that lists each task and the hours bill for that task. If something looks fishy, just ask for more detail. However, if an oil change books out at .50 hours (just an example), that is what you will pay. If a mechanic takes 5 minutes or 2 hours, you still pay the book rate of .50 hours.



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It's called the flat rate manual...

They use that to determine what to put on the bill...
 

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Depending on how current you are with services this may have also included changing the reciever drier for the A/C system. Warranty/Owners manual indicates changing at 2yrs.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
what mileage do you have on your 05 GS?
15,500 miles

What services were done - was the labor *just* the fluid flushes, or was it also an 18k \ 45k inspection + service?
The bill only mention "Annual Service" and Fluids. Aside from fixing my seats, upgraded software and adjusted clutch under warranty.

I'll try to scan the bill and attach tomorrow.
 

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The owners manual has the 18k service requirements...

If you look in the owners manual it tells you everything to do for all the service intervals..

For the F1 question from Ali...

You're going to laugh....

To change the F1 fluid, well I use a turkey baster, a small piece of plastic tubing and I use that to suck out the existing ATF fluid out of the F1 Reservoir then clean it up, use the same turkey baster to put in the same amount of new Mobil 1 Full Synthetic ATF.. The actual procedure calls for you to top off the reservoir then use the special tool to siphon down the fluid to the right level but I don't have the tool so I use my finger and the picture on page 693, I believe, of the service manual to get the right level... I don't end up getting all of the fluid out, but enough of the fluid is changed to keep it clean enough for the long run, especially since I do it every year...

I am the McGyver type, former mechanic and a software engineer so these things seem to come natural for me..

This is me for those not here in Colorado (bottom of the page):

http://www-128.ibm.com/developerworks/db2/library/techarticle/0206stephens/0206stephens.html

I am an early retiree, took the package and work elsewhere these days.
 

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Our service for changing the F1 fluid involves flushing the system. This is done through SD3 and the bleed fittings for the throw out bearing and actuator. This is one of the reasons you need to be carefull about discrediting the time some stores are charging for the services as there are significant differences in what is occuring. For the guy doing it at home and using a turkey baster is still leaving a significant amount of flujid left in the F1 system. If you only changed the brake fluid in a master cylinder you have done nothing with the fluid in the caliper which is the most important location to change. I applaud the owners who love to work on the cars themselves either to save money or personal satisfaction but very often they are not educated on the proper steps done to service these systems. Big difference between a turkey baster and 20k worth of SD3 to properly change the fluid.
When draining and refilling the gearbox are you removing the filter in the gearbox for inspection and cleaning. These gearboxes have a internal pump to lube the mainshaft bearings and if the filter becomes plugged the bearings will obviously fail. There are many small details like this that make 7.5 hours appropriate depending on what was done. The dealer should have provided you with better documentation of exactly what was done for this very reason. Simply stating "perform annual service" would not be acceptable in our facility. The resale of these cars is heavily influenced by proper documentation. The dealer is doing himself a diservice with such poor documentation for the reasons you mentioned above. You should never leave a dealership with questions of what was done or what you are paying for and you should feel you were charged a fair price. Had the dealer done this for you I suspect you would not have felt the need for this thread.

Thanks for bringing up the subject. I hope you have a conversation with your serviceing dealer and you get proper explanations to your questions.
 

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I agree with windsock....

If I could afford or wanted to spend the 20k on the SD3 then I would. The dealer can do the right job and they should get paid for what they do..

As a former mechanic I can also tell you that a lot of mechanics charge you for that full flush, but they don't do it, just change the fluid in the reservoir and that is why I am a DIY type of guy... At least I know what I am getting for my money and I love to tinker.. I didn't buy a Maserati for resale, I bought mine to drive and to learn from.. I tinker with it more than I drive it in fact.. If resale was important I would have bought a Toyota.

BTW, the education on this is easy, it's all in the service manual, anyone with an above average IQ, a little time to read and some minor mechanical apptitude can do this, it's really a matter of having the right tool for the job.. The filter and everything else is shown in the service manual, it's the same the dealers use and it's available for 100 bucks on maserati.com

When us DIY guys screw up, the dealers get to make money off us, so they should encourage us even more! But they won't be seeing me in this lifetime...
 

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When us DIY guys screw up, the dealers get to make money off us, so they should encourage us even more! But they won't be seeing me in this lifetime...
That assumes the DIY guys all disclose to their next owner that they were a DIY guy and did the F1 fluid changes with a turkey baster, not quite changing all of the fluid, and often missing some of the heavier sediment that could cause issues in the long run.

That also assumes the next owner will know to blame the previous owner's DIY work vs. 'This car is a lemon' or 'Maseratis aren't reliable' when something like the F1 pump fails.

Will you disclose that you were a DIY person, when that means the resale value might take a $4-5k hit? What percentage of DIY people would? What happens when a DIY person trades there car in to a dealer without that disclosure and then we resell a car that has future issues that may or may not be related to those services? And as a dealer, how do I give you a fair deal on your trade while simultaneously protecting myself against later costs and customer dissatisfaction? What if I sold a car like this to someone here on the forums?

This is the value of having a vehicle serviced at a dealership, and getting full documentation. Clearly Niteroi needs a better description of what services were done, but in the grand scheme of things, $1500 for a fluid change and inspection by someone that will recognize smaller warning signs than you might not see is not a bad deal. That could easily save you some headaches in the long run. (ie, we noticed when we changed the F1 fluid that there were some heavy particulates - keep an eye out for any misbehavior of the F1 pump. Or we noticed that the clutch wear is down to about 25% left.) Would you rather schedule a service like that on your terms and schedule or from the side of the road?

Yes - some of these services are expensive - yes some of these things take a considerable amount of time. We invest a lot in our tools, and in training our people, and we have to make a little bit of money on top of that too. I think we just need to make better of work of showing the value of that money spent more obvious.

I don't want to make this an argument by any means - like I said - I tinker too - I'm just trying to make sure the other side of this debate is represented.
 
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