Maserati Forum banner

1 - 17 of 17 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hi everyone,

New to the board, if you guys help me out, maybe I'll be a permanent member.

So, I've been reading about the Maserati Cambiocorsa and I've kind of set my sights on one. I'm really not looking at buying a new one, I'm in the market for saving some money and getting an 04-05 used with max 20K miles.

I've been reading about the car on the internet, including sites like car&driver, etc. I've come up with a couple questions & I'd appreciate some feedback from real owners.

1. How reliable is the Maserati Cambiocrsa in general? I'm looking at an 04 model, 9,500 miles, Skyhook suspension, F1 auto manual paddle shift transmission. I'm particularly interested quality & lifespan of the automatic transmission. Understanding that driving conditions may affect the life, how reliable is the transmission & overall drivetrain? My nearest Maserati/Ferarri dealer is 5-6 hours away, so I don't have the ability of just driving into a dealership when I think there's a problem. I would absolutely hate it if the tranny went out since I've read it's very expensive to replace if waranty has expired.

2. How reliable is the Skyhook suspension? To me, it kind of sounds like a potential problem compared to conventional suspension, especially since it's reliable on electronics/sensors.

3. I've scouted around on prices & most 04 Cambiocorsas are running around $60,000ish which is fairly reasonable for the kind of machine you get. I'm looking at a particular 04 silver model with 9,500 miles, Skyhook, F1, fully loaded with all options. Asking price is $60K, do you guys think I have a chance at getting it for 55K? I called the dealership today saying I'd buy the car for 55K upfront CASH, no financing, but I said I'd finance a few thousand dollars (5-ish) so they could make a little bit off that. We talked a bit but couldn't really come to a middle ground but I'll try again in a week or two. I'm always looking to haggle with these slick haired salesmen, any thoughts if I'll be able to get my way?

My overall use for this car is weekend rides, not an everyday driving car (few 2-4K miles a year).

That's really what I can think of right now. I'd appreciate your thoughts & thank you in advance.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2 Posts
Discussion Starter #2
Also,

I've been browsing the forum and it seems like loads of people mention clutch problems when the car has below 30K miles? This is terribly discouraging considering the price of fixing something like that.:mad:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
528 Posts
If you are looking to spend 60K on a used Cambio, you may want to consider a NEW stripper for about 10K more.
Advantages - New car warrenty, no Cambio or clutch wear issues
Minus - No Skyhook, Xenons, heated seats (seats can be retrofitted)
Neutral - no nav system.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
339 Posts
teamturbo said:
Hi everyone,

New to the board, if you guys help me out, maybe I'll be a permanent member.

So, I've been reading about the Maserati Cambiocorsa and I've kind of set my sights on one. I'm really not looking at buying a new one, I'm in the market for saving some money and getting an 04-05 used with max 20K miles.

Keep in mind the cambriocorsa clutch system lasts 20-25k miles at the most, if you're buying used, you don't know the history and the previous owner might have driven around in auto mode all the time. I would just factor in a new clutch with the purchase price, whether you actually need it or not
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
824 Posts
teamturbo said:
1. How reliable is the Maserati Cambiocrsa in general? I'm looking at an 04 model, 9,500 miles, Skyhook suspension, F1 auto manual paddle shift transmission. I'm particularly interested quality & lifespan of the automatic transmission. Understanding that driving conditions may affect the life, how reliable is the transmission & overall drivetrain? My nearest Maserati/Ferarri dealer is 5-6 hours away
Well I think you have an issue there with the dealer being so far away (unless you enjoy the drive) -- put the transwmission aside for the moment, I am in there every couple of months for odd little things (mostly trim related).

Note it is NOT an automatic transmission, no torque converter and should not be driven like an auto. You can easily fry the clutch backing up a hill and letting the clutch slip.

I would get a printout of the clutch wear % before I bought this car. 15,000-20,000 miles is typical clutch life in these cars. A clutch change is $3k+.

F1 pumps are also a common failure at higher mileage but this car should have balance of new car warranty (check that out with dealer) so you should be ok at least until end of warranty.

You probably want to budget some money for tires too. I just replaced my rear tires at 12,000 miles.

2. How reliable is the Skyhook suspension? To me, it kind of sounds like a potential problem compared to conventional suspension, especially since it's reliable on electronics/sensors.
I was also worried about this but have seen very few issues posted here, if any.

3. I've scouted around on prices & most 04 Cambiocorsas are running around $60,000ish which is fairly reasonable for the kind of machine you get. I'm looking at a particular 04 silver model with 9,500 miles, Skyhook, F1, fully loaded with all options. Asking price is $60K, do you guys think I have a chance at getting it for 55K? I called the dealership today saying I'd buy the car for 55K upfront CASH, no financing, but I said I'd finance a few thousand dollars (5-ish) so they could make a little bit off that. We talked a bit but couldn't really come to a middle ground but I'll try again in a week or two. I'm always looking to haggle with these slick haired salesmen, any thoughts if I'll be able to get my way?
I don't think financing $5k is going to make them enough to care. You can be sure they paid a lot less than $55k for it, so their question to answer is can they find someone who will pay more than you are willing to in a reasonable amount of time.

You are also betting you will be able to find the same car for same price if you are willing to walk away.

Sometimes as part of a negotiation you need to show you are willing to walk away. You can just say "here is a firm $55k cash offer, good for a week. Call me if you're interested."

My overall use for this car is weekend rides, not an everyday driving car (few 2-4K miles a year).
Well each to his own :) that will keep your tire costs down though!

Glenn
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
29 Posts
teamturbo said:
3. I've scouted around on prices & most 04 Cambiocorsas are running around $60,000ish which is fairly reasonable for the kind of machine you get. I'm looking at a particular 04 silver model with 9,500 miles, Skyhook, F1, fully loaded with all options. Asking price is $60K, do you guys think I have a chance at getting it for 55K? I called the dealership today saying I'd buy the car for 55K upfront CASH, no financing, but I said I'd finance a few thousand dollars (5-ish) so they could make a little bit off that. We talked a bit but couldn't really come to a middle ground but I'll try again in a week or two. I'm always looking to haggle with these slick haired salesmen, any thoughts if I'll be able to get my way?
Here are market reports for Cambios sold at the auction this year. You will know what the dealers buy them for. This will help you with a bargaining tool.


02/13/07 FAAO Lease $43,400 19,918 Avg BLUE
02/01/07 RIVRSIDE Lease $45,000 25,357 Avg SILVER
01/04/07 RIVRSIDE Regular $42,500 18,541 Avg BLACK
12/07/06 RIVRSIDE Lease $47,000 18,311 Avg GRAY
11/14/06 OHIO Lease $47,000 15,676 Avg RED
11/09/06 RIVRSIDE Lease $47,000 20,129 Avg BLACK

You should be able to get one with a mark up of around $5,000. Hope this helps.

Jeff
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
196 Posts
spicoli25 said:
Here are market reports for Cambios sold at the auction this year. You will know what the dealers buy them for. This will help you with a bargaining tool.


02/13/07 FAAO Lease $43,400 19,918 Avg BLUE
02/01/07 RIVRSIDE Lease $45,000 25,357 Avg SILVER
01/04/07 RIVRSIDE Regular $42,500 18,541 Avg BLACK
12/07/06 RIVRSIDE Lease $47,000 18,311 Avg GRAY
11/14/06 OHIO Lease $47,000 15,676 Avg RED
11/09/06 RIVRSIDE Lease $47,000 20,129 Avg BLACK

You should be able to get one with a mark up of around $5,000. Hope this helps.

Jeff
Hi-
Do you have some wholesale info on 2005 Coupes?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
196 Posts
Any wholesale info on 05's CC
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16 Posts
I know plenty of people who have 30,000 miles + on their first cc clutch with less than 40% wear.

Mine had 25% wear at 18,000 miles according to the Ferrari dealer that serviced it.
So it does depend on how it’s driven and if you learn how to use the transmission properly.

As a rule of thumb when the clutch wear gets to 40 - 45% it should be changed - at this point you can start to damage the fly wheel if it is slipping and that is going to make the repair more expensive.

For the type of car, (its basically got Ferrari underpinnings), the 4200 is reasonably reliable, certainly more so that a Ferrari or a Lambo.

I just think part of the problem is some people buy these cars and expect them have the same reliability / servicing costs as a Merc or Bmw. If you are going into it with this in mind don’t buy the car. They are expensive to run in terms of servicing, fuel, insurance but you pay for what you get at the end of the day.

They are fantastic cars and I don’t really care how much they cost to run, you soon forget when you get in and drive them....The danager with these cars is that as the residuals fall people start buying them that cant afford or are not willing to service them properly and neglect will kill these cars quickly.

Also its a myth that the manual transmission has lower clutch wear; the 4200 was designed for the f1 transmission, the manual is just bolted on and emulates the cc which leads to the the notchy change. In fact speaking to my local dealer and independent they seem to think the clutchs on the manuals actually wear out more quickly.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,685 Posts
alera said:
I know plenty of people who have 30,000 miles + on their first cc clutch with less than 40% wear.

Mine had 25% wear at 18,000 miles according to the Ferrari dealer that serviced it.
So it does depend on how it’s driven and if you learn how to use the transmission properly.

As a rule of thumb when the clutch wear gets to 40 - 45% it should be changed - at this point you can start to damage the fly wheel if it is slipping and that is going to make the repair more expensive.

For the type of car, (its basically got Ferrari underpinnings), the 4200 is reasonably reliable, certainly more so that a Ferrari or a Lambo.

I just think part of the problem is some people buy these cars and expect them have the same reliability / servicing costs as a Merc or Bmw. If you are going into it with this in mind don’t buy the car. They are expensive to run in terms of servicing, fuel, insurance but you pay for what you get at the end of the day.

They are fantastic cars and I don’t really care how much they cost to run, you soon forget when you get in and drive them....The danager with these cars is that as the residuals fall people start buying them that cant afford or are not willing to service them properly and neglect will kill these cars quickly.

Also its a myth that the manual transmission has lower clutch wear; the 4200 was designed for the f1 transmission, the manual is just bolted on and emulates the cc which leads to the the notchy change. In fact speaking to my local dealer and independent they seem to think the clutchs on the manuals actually wear out more quickly.
Interesting. I thought it was the other way around. These cars started life as 3200 twin turbo's which all had manuals. In fact, in the CC there is an actuator in the area above where the clutch pedal used to be that engages the clutch. If it were designed specifically for the CC, I would have thought the actuator would be some place else. Then again, if you're going to have both, that's the logical place to put it.

My $0.02 Buzz
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
909 Posts
That's actually a good point \ question. I had always heard Ferrari developed a new gearbox for the car, but I don't know if they just modified the manual that was in it for hydraulic controls, or if its a new transmission with a manual sister.

I don't even know a good way to start looking into that? Does anyone have pictures of a 3200 MT out of the car?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16 Posts
The engine in the 4200 is essentially a slightly simpler, detuned edition of the dry-sumped, quad-cam V8 in the Ferrari 360. The Gearbox, f1 transmission and transaxel are from the 360 as well. If not identical they are certainly near enough.

The 4200 was pretty much built from the ground up on the new production line in Modena by Ferrari, the 3200 didnt sit well when they took over, they found the twin Turbos adhorent for starters....

The 3200 was designed to be a manual.

The 4200 was designed around the f1 system taken from the Ferrari 360.

The 3200 had a completely different engine, gearbox and transmission setup.

As for the location of individual components I cant speak for that. I am not a designer / engineer. I am amazed how many times I have read incorrect information on Maserati forums about the gearbox / engines in these cars.

There is a good reason why the vast majority of 4200 sold are cc and why the motor press say if you are going to buy one the cc is the way to go (Well after they sorted out all the problems in 03 revision anyway) Like I said before the manual shift on these cars is a compromise in itself as the car was not designed and built with a manual transmission in mind.

That’s not to say they are great cars as they obviously are cc or manual. I know people that still prefer the manual with all these facts in hand, because they prefer a manual shift in their sports cars. It needs to be mentioned though as time and again I see people saying they are going to buy a manual as the clutch life will be better. This is not necessarily the case at all.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
909 Posts
Alera, I believe you're mistaken.

The 3200GT was developed by Fiat, and generally shares parts-bin items with them.

The 4200 is a sister to the Ferrari 430 engine, not the 360.
The 360 is a build up from the 355 engine, which still uses timing belts, etc. The 4200 uses chains, and is the same as the 430 except for crankshaft (off-plane vs single plane in the 430), connecting rods, pistons, and differences in cylinder heads \ manifolds \ etc.

4200 vs 430

92x79.8mm vs 92x81mm bore x stroke (where the extra displacement comes from)
4244cc vs 4308cc displacement
11:1 vs 11.3:1 compression
7600rpm vs 8500rpm redline

"Along with a restyled body, the F430 features a 4.3 L V8 gasoline engine derived from a shared Ferrari/Maserati design. This new powerplant is a significant departure for the F430's line: The engines of all previous V8 Ferraris were descendants of the "Dino" racing program of the 1950s. This fifty year development cycle comes to an end with the entirely new 4.3 L, the architecture of which will later replace the Dino-derived V12 in most other Ferrari cars. Power is 360.4 kW (483 hp) at 8500 rpm and torque 465 N·m (343 ft·lbf) at 5250 rpm."

Ferrari cut down costs on engineering this entirely new engine base by sharing these costs with Maserati. I believe this type of partnership between Maserati Ferrari and now Alfa will be a continuing theme for the brands, and very smart by Fiat. Everyone wins. No more crazy timing belt services for Ferraris will make A LOT of people happy.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,685 Posts
alera said:
http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/cargrouptests/35794/maz_appeal.html

Its a long article but it mentions the engine being derived from that in the 360. If I am wrong I stand to be corrected, they are a very well respected mag though so I would be surprised if they got it so completely wrong.
From Wikipedia................

In 2002, Maserati launched the Coupé and Spyder, based on the 3200 GT, which is not sold in the United States. Both models have a normally aspirated 4.2 L engine producing 390 bhp (291 kW). The top speed is 177 mph (285 km/h), while 0-60 time is 4.9 seconds. The V8 engine was designed by Ferrari but built by Maserati. It has variable valve timing on the intake side only, while a highly developed version of this engine used in the F430 had variable valve timing on both intake and outlet sides.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
909 Posts
alera said:
http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/cargrouptests/35794/maz_appeal.html

Its a long article but it mentions the engine being derived from that in the 360. If I am wrong I stand to be corrected, they are a very well respected mag though so I would be surprised if they got it so completely wrong.
I do love Evo, and buy nearly every issue, but this is an old article, and is incorrect. I wouldn't be surprised if the gearbox was a different story though.
 
1 - 17 of 17 Posts
Top