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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I can never "reliably" create the conditions that cause this, but my QP Duo sometimes drops to neutral ONLY on a DOWNSHIFT to SECOND (whether in auto mode or manual mode). It's scary when it happens, especially during "spirited driving". Downshifting to 2nd to take a turn and then throttling back up not knowing the car has dropped to neutral revs the car so that you think you've mis-shifted a stick-shift. My wife drives this car mostly and is always in auto-mode. So, when this happens to her (when slowing down), she freaks.

The strange thing is that when this happens, I'll tap the downshift paddle thinking it should at least go to first. Instead, it goes to either 5th or 4th... at 10-15 mph! Same if I choose to hit the upshift paddle instead.

The car NEVER drops to neutral when upshifting to 2nd (or any other gear). Only on a downshift to second. Twice it dropped to neutral while sitting a the traffic light (no warning indicators).

So, who has ideas? I'm thinking that even though it's at random times, but always on a downshift to second (and rarely while at a stop), that this is either a software issue (F1 logic) or a mechanical issue (gearbox or F1 gear selector). I doubt it's the gearbox itself (like synchros), otherwise it should sometimes happen on upshifts, too. I've also heard that a faulty brake relay or switch could cause this too.

The dealer said they couldn't find anything, but I was having quite a few things resolved and don't know if they "really" looked into it.
 

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Not much help but I think the car goes to N if you sit in first for too long at a traffic light. Mine has done this once when I stayed in 1 for about 1 minute or so.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Not much help but I think the car goes to N if you sit in first for too long at a traffic light. Mine has done this once when I stayed in 1 for about 1 minute or so.
I'm going outside right now to test this :) if it drops to neutral, then I'll eliminate that as a symptom.

As for the issue downshifting to 2nd, there's one thing I forgot to mention. Now, this may be purely coincidental; but this didn't start happening until I one day had to change a tail-light bulb on the passenger's side. The bulb was difficult to twist out, and I recall hitting my hand on a block of relays when the bulb finally twisted free.

Does anyone know if the F1 or brake relay switches reside here?


Thanks,

Nick
 

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Neutral Drop On Downshift? Hit The Gas!

My advice is to try the following: more gas when you downshift.

I have had neutral drops in sport mode but never in normal mode. But after 4 1/2 years I think CC trans is brilliant but requires engagement by the driver. It is unnerving to approach a deceleration and presss down on the gas when you want to go slower. But you have to look down the road and anticipate. The cars wants to be revving above 4,000 rpm.

In fact now I love downshifts. You see the stop sign about 200 yards ahead and you are 35 mph in 2nd. Donwshift and hit the gas. The engine roars, vehicle speed is constant. Then you ease off the gas and almost come to a stop without hitting the brake. Or something like that.

But if you take your foot off the gas and downshift. Think abut the problem you are asking the CPU to solve - constant speed in lower gear with the same throttle. That "dog won't hunt."
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
My advice is to try the following: more gas when you downshift.

I have had neutral drops in sport mode but never in normal mode.
thanks. I'm going to test this. You've jogged my memory and in fact the car has been in sport mode each time this has happened on a downshift. As far as the CPU getting confused, I'm not too sure. My F355 F1 never does this. I'd think that my QP would be better being that the F1 system is newer and should be improved by comparison.

Thanks,

Nick
 

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I had this on my 04 coupe. A trip to the dealer, and an adjustment of the PIS on the SD3, and it it has not happened again.

Eric
 

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Point of Initial Slippage, I believe. It is the point where the computer first engages the clutch. Whatever it was, it was covered by warranty and has not happened again. It was slipping into N about once a week on me. Always during an upshift.

Eric
 

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Help me out.... PIS??
PIS = Point of Initial Slippage... The computer controls the clutch, you need to go in and have the dealer put it on the SD3 and make the adjustments..
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Will do.

Headed there on Monday.

thanks, guys.

Nick
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
new results.

This happens in both normal and sport mode.
Does not slip to neutral just because I idle more than a minute.
ONLY happens when CORNERING and DOWNSHIFTING to SECOND.

Could this be a low f1 fluid issue? The fluid 'sloshing' during cornering?

Dealer keeps telling me they can't duplicate the issue. 'I'll' drive the car for them this time.
 

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new results.

This happens in both normal and sport mode.
Does not slip to neutral just because I idle more than a minute.
ONLY happens when CORNERING and DOWNSHIFTING to SECOND.

Could this be a low f1 fluid issue? The fluid 'sloshing' during cornering?

Dealer keeps telling me they can't duplicate the issue. 'I'll' drive the car for them this time.
Low fluid or weak F1 pump will do this.. Also could be out of adjustment...

If Kent Woodward cruises by this thread he can give you the exact reason.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Wish the f1 fluid was as easy to check as in my f355. Can't believe they didn't make an easy-to-access fluid reservoir on the QP.

Nick
 

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If you are popping into neutral you should have the system read with an SD2/3 to determine the actual wear.

You may be on the edge of a clutch replacement!

This is a characteristic Ferrari F1 problem when the clutch is near the end of its life!
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
If you are popping into neutral you should have the system read with an SD2/3 to determine the actual wear.

You may be on the edge of a clutch replacement!

This is a characteristic Ferrari F1 problem when the clutch is near the end of its life!
I'm starting to wonder about the abilities of my local dealer. They claim to have run an SD3 diagnostic and didn't see an issue. I'm taking it back tomorrow; asking them specifically to check trans-health and adjustments using the SD3.

I've just received another recommendation from Daniel at Ricambi America. He suggests starting with the F1 sensor on the gearbox (apparently external compared to my f355 internal configuration). He says he's sold 6 of them for QP Duos this year (if that's any testament to their reliability) where the cars were slipping into neutral.

Thanks,

Nick
 

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Daniel is a good guy regardless of what anyone says.

Try that and if not take the winter vaction $ and reapportion to a new clutch!

How many miles?
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Daniel is a good guy regardless of what anyone says.

Try that and if not take the winter vaction $ and reapportion to a new clutch!

How many miles?
I have 24,541 miles on the car/clutch. There's no slipping, it pulls very strong, and the dealer claims that I have 50% life (checked at 21,000 miles).

Tomorrow I'm going to have the dealer replace the sensor and recalibrate everything. My f355 gave me a fit for a long time with a flashing f1 indicator and dropping to neutral whenever I drove in stop and go traffic. Driving at a constant rate and the car was fine. Turned out the release bearing was leaking clutch fluid, fouling the f1 sensor and causing it to error. When traveling at a constant rate of speed, the rotating mass blew the sensor clean which is why the car drove fine. Once I'd determined that I had an internal fluid leak, I could've just replaced the leaky bearing and cleaned the sensor; but I opted to change the entire clutch assembly.

If after the sensor replacement and recalibration the problem persists, I'll just replace the clutch assembly.

Thanks,

Nick
 

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All great points you have brought up, and I sincerely hope it's the sensor.

If the clutch needs replacement make sure to check with Daniel about a Hill Eng. T/O bearing. That's a must if Paul Hill makes one for the QP.

Keep us posted.
 
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