Help me decide...QP 5 (M139, 2003–2012) vs. QP 6 (M156, 2013–present)

jarm691 · May 24, 2018

1. Closed deck delivers more hp/liter than opened deck.

It might well do, but the engines in the new range have more power than the engines in the old range if you use standard Earth mathmatics.

2. On DuoSelect transmission: yes, known problems but solved with this: Qp Drive By Wire / F-1 Enhancement Module for Quattroporte (DuoSelect)

Why do I have to keep running to formula dynamics to make my car work?

3. "4.9 sec faster than 5.1 sec" - that fraction is unnoticeable and eliminated with Formula Dynamics tuning.

Then when you add the Formula Dynamics tuning to the QP6 the fraction is suddenly restored but only bigger.

4. On interior parts sharing between Chrysler and Maserati: https://oppositelock.kinja.com/maser...300-1519473595

No argument about that, but the Chrysler parts are better than the Fiat parts in the QP5

5. Not related much to the topic Maserati sales are declining (US data): Maserati US car sales figures

Which means that according to your earlier arguments, the QP6 is going to become rarer than the QP5 so therefore its more desirable.

jarm691 · May 24, 2018

Agent Smith said:
WOW what a thread. I was really excited to see a long thread with the OP asking the same question I'm currently asking myself. And then I stumbled (in disbelief) into what this thread actually turned into.

So, just a couple observations. I've sampled the last gen GTS, the current gen SQ4 and GTS, and the Ghibli SQ4. They're all awesome cars for different reasons.

The fifth gen QP WAS and STILL IS an incredible car. It sounds incredible, it handles great, it has timeless good looks. Nitpicks - the interior is dated. The F1 trans seems to get a bad rap (I sampled the auto), space can be considered tight. Repair costs can generously be called higher than normal. Despite all that let me say it again - it is an incredible timeless car that oozes passion and 'soul' unlike most other transportation machines. I smiled during the whole drive both times I drove one. And despite the abundance of advancement across all luxury sport cars, I still think about this car more than others. It's really cool.

The sixth gen GTS is sweet. It handles better than a car of its size and weight has any right to. The engine sound is still glorious although of any of them, the fifth gen sound was my favorite. There's interior room to spare - important to me because I have a family. Demerits - maybe some will call the styling more generic. I think it's a bit less 'exciting' the last gen. Maybe some of the interior bits were borrowed from the parts bins. That said I've been in Chrysler's. There's no mistaking a Chrysler interior for the QP interior. Or vice versa. Maybe, just maybe those parts won't turn sticky like previous models. Or you know like Ferrari's. I live in the land of relentless sun and I've never had buttons in a car turn to a sticky mess. Always wondered why that seemed to happen on Italian exotics though. Despite the increased performance level, I still have to say I thought the fifth gen QP had more 'soul'. Not a knock on the sixth gen at all - still a fabulous car.

Sixth gen SQ4. Now this one truly surprised me. I went in determined to hate it simply because it had the V6 instead of the V8. In fact I pretty much had to be coaxed into driving it. I wasn't excited about doing it at all. I came out a believer. Again, it handled great, power was intoxicating, the engine note was far more aggressive than I expected, and the way the shifts sounded like rifle shots impressed me. I was FAR more impressed with this one than I expected to be. Maybe the GTS felt a hair faster thanks to more abundant torque. It's said to pull harder at higher speeds that no one around here drives. Still the V6 actually blew my mind. In day to day real world driving I came away making it hard to justify the premium for the 8. Normally I go straight for the top model, perceiving that it will be the top performer therefore making lesser models boring by comparison. In this case I was wrong. Not that there weren't differences - there were. But I'll have to really think hard about how important having that V8 is to me.

No matter which model I thought for driving feel and dynamics they were heads and shoulders above the competition. I live in an affluent metro area that has a dealer and I don't see Masers everyday. They still turn my head. Alfa Giulia's turn my head. In contrast I see all manners of their German and Japanese competitors to the point that they blend in to a sea of blandness. Even AMG's and M's. I think those that are actively seeking out Maserati's want a bit different experience or they tend to lean to the enthusiast side.

For those judging the worth of these cars by the infotainment system, you're shopping the wrong brand. I'd rather listen to the engines anyway. For those that haven't learned that 4.9 is faster than 5.1, I'll invite you to attend elementary school with my kids. I doubt most here (and I'm including myself) will nail published professional test driver numbers each and every time thus essentially making those comparisons meaningless. And really, for the street in a day to day slog which is where most sedans are used, how much will fractions of a second really mean?

I've also seen some of the same opinions expressed across different forums where people who own the 'old' model of whatever car hate the 'new' model and take every opportunity to bash it. It happens all the time. I've seen the term Chryslerati thrown around here in reference to newer Masers and I don't get that. From my research it seems the engines on the new ones still had Ferrari development, which explains why they perform and still sound cool. And I have never been in a Chrysler thinking I'm in a Maserati. Same as I have never been in a Maserati and made a mistake thinking I was in a Chrysler. What am I missing?

Look at the end of the day, for those that own a Maserati (ANY Maserati) or are in the fortunate position to be seriously considering one, you're doing FAR better than most anyone else and will be the rare person who can say they've sampled these fine machines. Isn't that enough?

Anyway, I came here looking for informed opinions and it's always nice to hear from those with firsthand experience. If anyone else has that to share it'd be awesome to hear from them. In the meantime I'll keep scanning the rest of the forum.

Yay, reasoned debate.

I agree with pretty much everything you say, the curves on the 5 became more angular on the 6 and its a tad less sexier.

Re the infotainment system. I never claimed that as a reason for preferring the QP6, in my debates with the mathematician, I pointed out some items that I thought were better. The infortainment system is one of them even taking into account the ":grin2

assion superiority multiplier." I drive like you with the window down to listen to the engine. However after a while the wife and kids grow tired of this and want music, so its nice to have a reasonably competent music system, and I dont really care whether it comes out of a Chrysler or an East German Trabant, it works.

Re the GTS, I havent drove one so cant comment on the difference, the V6, if you time your overtaking maneuver just right, you get that engine rifle shot sound just as you are passing the other guy, they always jump lol.

I see the mathematician has already replied to your post to disprove your theory that the QP6 0-60 time is faster.

toshy · May 24, 2018

akluch said:
...

Wow... I haven't seen such a misinformed post, full of stupid things, lacking any kind logic, in a looooong time.

Agent Smith · May 24, 2018

jarm691 said:
Re the GTS, I havent drove one so cant comment on the difference, the V6, if you time your overtaking maneuver just right, you get that engine rifle shot sound just as you are passing the other guy, they always jump lol.

Now THAT sounds like a lot of fun lolololol 0

Agent Smith · May 24, 2018

akluch said:
1. On engines: the V6 6th gen models have engine (F160) with opened deck block. 6th Gen GTS (F154) and all 5th Gen (F136) have closed deck block. Closed deck delivers more hp/liter than opened deck. The V6 can be assembled by Ferrari, but it is not completely designed by Ferrari and definitely no match to V6 variant of F154 used in Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio and Alfa Romeo Stelvio Quadrifoglio. F160 isn't used in any Ferrari cars. F136 and F154 used in Ferrari cars (different variants though).

2. On DuoSelect transmission: yes, known problems but solved with this: Qp Drive By Wire / F-1 Enhancement Module for Quattroporte (DuoSelect)

3. "4.9 sec faster than 5.1 sec" - that fraction is unnoticeable and eliminated with Formula Dynamics tuning.

4. On interior parts sharing between Chrysler and Maserati: https://oppositelock.kinja.com/maserati-ghibli-chrysler-300-1519473595

5. Not related much to the topic Maserati sales are declining (US data): Maserati US car sales figures

6. Taking into consideration that there're plenty Ghiblis on the roads due to super cheap lease prices (hoping to get the sales numbers highs), those 6th generation are now in par with Toyota and Honda :crying:

Couple things - I never said anything about tuned performance vs stock. Every enthusiast knows a tuned car has the potential ability to outperform a stock model of any generation. Whole different beast. Maybe those fractions matter to some for 'measuring' rights or bragging rights on forums. Couple tenths on the street for daily use is borderline irrelevant, especially in the gridlock here in Charlotte.

Thanks for providing the links about parts sharing, which discussed the Ghibli. Thought we were discussing the QP here. Not sure why the Ghibli keeps coming up in this thread.

I also agree the gen 5 V8 is my favorite engine of what's been discussed here. It's awesome. But I still don't get the V6 shaming here (even though I originally said I wanted to hate it. Guess that's why it's good to try things before speaking about them). Why is how it starts its life so important? My current DD is a Taurus SHO. It has the corporate 3.5L twin turbo engine. The same basic architecture as the one used in the Raptor and Ford GT. Now I'm not under any illusions that I could take my SHO and make it perform like the GT. Point is they start the same BASIC life and take VERY different paths to what they ultimately become in their final application. That's just the way manufacturing is these days.

(Total side note there's nothing glamorous about my SHO exhaust note - turbos tending to muffle fun engine sounds and limit revving in general etc. This is another reason I was so surprised how much I liked the SQ4 engine)

Lamborghini Huracan's have VW corp bin 5 cylinder engines mashed together to make its exquisite V10 motor. Maybe you could point me to where Chrysler brags about using Ferrari/Maserati engines in their cars? Or where VW says yeah we use Lamborghini engines? Oh wait they don't because the end result and manufacturing path is very, VERY different.

From your sig looks like you have a sweet car. Might change the comic sans font though. Enjoy the drive! :smile2:

toshy · May 24, 2018

Agent Smith said:
Thanks for providing the links about parts sharing, which discussed the Ghibli. Thought we were discussing the QP here. Not sure why the Ghibli keeps coming up in this thread.

QP VI and Ghibi are basically the same car just with a different wheelbase. Everything that applies to one of them, applies to the other as well - except the V8 engine, of course.

Anyway, the "part sharing" is just some bullshit people that never seen one in real life are saying, and I'm struggling understanding why is it OK for AMG Mercs to have those parts but not for Maseratis.

akluch · May 24, 2018

toshy said:
QP VI and Ghibi are basically the same car just with a different wheelbase. Everything that applies to one of them, applies to the other as well - except the V8 engine, of course.

Anyway, the "part sharing" is just some bullshit people that never seen one in real life are saying, and I'm struggling understanding why is it OK for AMG Mercs to have those parts but not for Maseratis.

Because Maserati considered an exclusive brand. I'm not against sharing parts. Sharing parts with Ferrari - I'm for it! But sharing parts with Chrysler? Come on! :smile2:

akluch · May 24, 2018

toshy said:
Wow... I haven't seen such a misinformed post, full of stupid things, lacking any kind logic, in a looooong time.

So the V6 engine used in 6th generation Ghibli and non-GTS QP doesn't have a Chrysler Pentastar block? :wink2:

toshy · May 24, 2018

akluch said:
So the V6 engine used in 6th generation Ghibli and non-GTS QP doesn't have a Chrysler Pentastar block? :wink2:

No, they don't. They used the CAD calculations used for the Pentastar engines while designing the F160 block, but that's about it - it's where the similarities end. They don't even look the same if you put them side by side. All the other engine components from pistons to injection system and whatnot are shared with the Ferrari V8 engines.
I have my theory why they've done that, and it's sound and character (and probably cost saving). The 90° (abomination) F154 V6 is nowhere near as smooth and good sounding as the F160, but that is OK for an Alfa which caters to a different audience.

akluch said:
Because Maserati considered an exclusive brand. I'm not against sharing parts. Sharing parts with Ferrari - I'm for it! But sharing parts with Chrysler? Come on! :smile2:

What exactly are those shared parts, please tell me. I really want to know where you're coming from.

Don't bother answering "the windows switch gears and the headlights dial" because while they are similarly in shape and size, they are made from a different material and they have metal inserts, compared to the Chrysler parts, AND they are still used in high end AMG Mercs that cost double than any Maserati.

Also, I'm curious why are 3200/4200/GT/QP V OK with sharing parts with Alfa Romeo - which at that time was worse than Chrysler?

Agent Smith · May 24, 2018

toshy said:
QP VI and Ghibi are basically the same car just with a different wheelbase. Everything that applies to one of them, applies to the other as well - except the V8 engine, of course.

Anyway, the "part sharing" is just some bullshit people that never seen one in real life are saying, and I'm struggling understanding why is it OK for AMG Mercs to have those parts but not for Maseratis.

Oh ok. I get it from that pov then. Still, I'll echo my previous comments - I didn't feel like I was in a Chrysler product. I'll also freely admit that other cars in the QP price range offer more glamorous interiors, albeit at the expense of driving experience. My personal priority checklist shows driving experience as criteria #1 . Others want different and that's why options exist.

Soooooo would now be a good time then to bring up Ferrari's history of using Fiat parts in their dream machines? Or that on past models you can use VW window regulators as replacements instead of the same part sprinkled with magic Ferrari dust and a multiplied price? Or should we leave it alone? :grin2:

Spot on too about the AMG's. An AMG C still at its core started life as a C class. Who cares? At the end of the day if it's a car is cool and does it for someone then it's a cool car. Again not everybody has the fortunate opportunity in life to make these sorts of decisions.

akluch · May 24, 2018

toshy said:
No, they don't. They used the CAD calculations used for the Pentastar engines while designing the F160 block, but that's about it - it's where the similarities end. They don't even look the same if you put them side by side. All the other engine components from pistons to injection system and whatnot are shared with the Ferrari V8 engines.
I have my theory why they've done that, and it's sound and character (and probably cost saving). The 90° (abomination) F154 V6 is nowhere near as smooth and good sounding as the F160, but that is OK for an Alfa which caters to a different audience.

What exactly are those shared parts, please tell me. I really want to know where you're coming from.

Don't bother answering "the windows switch gears and the headlights dial" because while they are similarly in shape and size, they are made from a different material and they have metal inserts, compared to the Chrysler parts, AND they are still used in high end AMG Mercs that cost double than any Maserati.

Also, I'm curious why are 3200/4200/GT/QP V OK with sharing parts with Alfa Romeo - which at that time was worse than Chrysler?

1. They don't use CAD calculations: they use actual Pentastar blocks.
2. The parts shared with/from Chrysler: door handles, buttons, infotainment system and lot of others.
3. QP V was never sharing parts with Alfa. It shares parts with Ferrari :wink2:
https://www.eurospares.co.uk/search?partNumber=980145096 - even as little as seat buttons.

toshy · May 24, 2018

Agent Smith said:
Spot on too about the AMG's. An AMG C still at its core started life as a C class. Who cares? At the end of the day if it's a car is cool and does it for someone then it's a cool car. Again not everybody has the fortunate opportunity in life to make these sorts of decisions.

I didn't mean that, but you're right seeing it this way too. What I meant was that literally the same style switches are/were used in Mercedes models, because they come from the DaimlerChrysler era, and nobody complained ever about that.
As for AMGs starting life as regular Mercs, like C-Klasses, I didn't mean it that way because in the US you are spared of seeing really cheap Mercedeses and people might not get it. For example you can get here a C160d, which uses a 1.5l Dacia/Renault diesel engine, with steel wheels and cheap cloth interior, that would pale in comparison with a Dodge Neon.

akluch said:
1. They don't use CAD calculations: they use actual Pentastar blocks.

All right, so a Pentastar block with a bore x stroke of 96 x 83 (91 x 83 for the smaller one) is identical with an F160 block which has a bore x stroke of 86.5 x 85.5. This thread taught me that math is hard, yo.
And even if that were true, it must be a hell of a good engine design if Ferrari themselves decided to steal it and build it in their own factory. I also seen you complain a lot about the F160 being open deck - you must have never seen how thick the cylinder walls are on that engine, and I have never heard of even hardcore tuned F160s with cracked blocks yet.

It really puts you in a bad light that in 2018 you can't use Google to get your facts straight and you keep spreading misinformation like this.

akluch said:
2. The parts shared with/from Chrysler: door handles, buttons, infotainment system and lot of others.

Door handles? What? Sure you can find a picture to back this claim.
Buttons? Again, except the the window switch gear with RESEMBLES the parts DaimlerChrysler uses... What? Which ones?
Infotainment system? Yes, and I would take UConnect over any infotainment system from any manufacturer available today. It also has Android Auto and Apple Car Play.

Still waiting for SPECIFIC examples of parts sharing, because you seem to be convinced of this.

akluch said:
3. QP V was never sharing parts with Alfa. It shares parts with Ferrari :wink2:

Is it OK if I start my list with the wing mirrors shared with Alfa 159 (and later MiTO)?

akluch said:
https://www.eurospares.co.uk/search?partNumber=980145096 - even as little as seat buttons.

Ferrari/Maserati don't use EPER (which is Alfa's parts catalogue) so I doubt you'll find anything listed with their Alfa part numbers.
BUT, using the same logic, and arguments, please explain why you can't find the ALLEGED Chrysler shared parts in that catalogue either?
https://www.eurospares.co.uk/parts/...rts/maserati/qtp-v6-3-0-bt-410bt-2wd-2017/interior/centre-console-devices-58502

akluch · May 24, 2018

toshy said:
I didn't mean that, but you're right seeing it this way too. What I meant was that literally the same style switches are/were used in Mercedes models, because they come from the DaimlerChrysler era, and nobody complained ever about that.
As for AMGs starting life as regular Mercs, like C-Klasses, I didn't mean it that way because in the US you are spared of seeing really cheap Mercedeses and people might not get it. For example you can get here a C160d, which uses a 1.5l Dacia/Renault diesel engine, with steel wheels and cheap cloth interior, that would pale in comparison with a Dodge Neon.

It really puts you in a bad light that in 2018 you can't use Google to get your facts straight and you keep spreading misinformation like this.
And if that were true, it must be a hell of a good engine design if Ferrari themselves decided to steal it and build it in their own factory.

Door handles? What? Sure you can find a picture to back this claim.

Buttons? Again, except the the window switch gear with RESEMBLES the parts DaimlerChrysler uses... What? Which ones?
Infotainment system? Yes, and I would take UConnect over any infotainment system from any manufacturer available today. It also has Android Auto and Apple Car Play.

Still waiting for SPECIFIC examples of parts sharing, because you seem to be convinced of this.

Is it OK if I start my list with the wing mirrors shared with Alfa 159 (and later MiTO)?

Ferrari/Maserati don't use EPER (which is Alfa's parts catalogue) so I doubt you'll find anything listed with their Alfa part numbers.

BUT, using the same logic, and arguments, please explain why you can't find the ALLEGED Chrysler shared parts in that catalogue either?

https://www.eurospares.co.uk/parts/...rts/maserati/qtp-v6-3-0-bt-410bt-2wd-2017/interior/centre-console-devices-58502

1. Revealed: 2013 Maserati Quattroporte to Offer 404-HP 3.0L V-6, 523-HP 3.8L V-8 - "This new V-6, which shares its block with Chrysler’s Pentastar, will also be the engine in the upcoming Ghibli, a four-door 5 Series fighter due out next year."

2. Eurospares doesn't sell parts for Chrysler, so there's no comparison side by side.

- DeMuro's review of "modern Ghibli"

- his review of classic Ghibli.

And yes, I know he doesn't like QP 5 either, but he explained why older generation Ghibli is a fine car.

3. There're plenty of much better infotainment systems from other manufacturers and they all support Android Auto and Apple Car Play. :wink2:

Sharing parts with Chrysler briefly mentioned here: With the 2018 Maserati Ghibli, the Italian Brand Looks to Resurrect the NameplateAgain - The Drive despite the article praises Ghibli a lot.

toshy · May 24, 2018

What exactly are you trying to prove and who are you fighting with?

The M156 platform has been around for almost five years, people know it inside out by now, yet you keep bringing and linking rumors and misinformed articles that speculated about it and were written long before its launch.

When it comes to similarities with the Chrysler cars, the list is very short is a very short one, and that is a fact, yet you keep insisting it's not. 99% of people here would take Mercedes sourced electrics and non-melting buttons any day over the old Italian ones.

The platform also has been proven very reliable, and except dumbfucks like demuro who have no idea what the brand means, everyone has praised it and acknowledged it as a real Maserati. All the owners that have switched from an older GT or QP (including me) are very satisfied with the new cars. Of course we miss the character of the naturally aspirated engine, and that's not Maserati's fault, it's the damn rules and regulations, and you can't find a new car that haven't been castrated by those. But even so, both the V6 and the V8 are great engine that sound and perform like the should, they fit the cars' character, and it's a testament of Maserati's engineering that they pulled a miracle like this.

Yes, price of survival was that they *HAD* to offer cheaper entry level cars, but imagine how would a M139 QP look and feel like with a 330 hp entry level engine, without proper leather, wood/carbon and Alcantara. Anyway being only very slightly behind the (very optimistic) sale goals they set in 2013 shows it was a good strategy.

Agent Smith · May 25, 2018

toshy said:
I didn't mean that, but you're right seeing it this way too. What I meant was that literally the same style switches are/were used in Mercedes models, because they come from the DaimlerChrysler era, and nobody complained ever about that.
As for AMGs starting life as regular Mercs, like C-Klasses, I didn't mean it that way because in the US you are spared of seeing really cheap Mercedeses and people might not get it. For example you can get here a C160d, which uses a 1.5l Dacia/Renault diesel engine, with steel wheels and cheap cloth interior, that would pale in comparison with a Dodge Neon.

Yes, ok being in Europe I have heard there are Mercedes models over there that would, well maybe disappoint some on this side of the pond.

I remember too that a previous gen E class generously donated its chassis to what became the Chrysler 300, which was widely praised. Probably the best thing (and arguably only good thing) that ever came out of that disastrous merger. Growing up in the metro Detroit area I had a front row seat for it. Yikes.

Anyway you're right though. Nobody complained. People buy the brand they want for what that brand represents. I think Maserati caters towards the enthusiast crowd quite well. Their cars are a welcome break from the German staples. And more to the point I think they've picked up the torch of where BMW was in the mid late 90's to mid 2000's as far as driving dynamics and performance. That said they'll never survive catering to strictly enthusiasts. The market is too small and the world is too complicated these days. So if they have to sell base model Ghibli's and (gawd) a SUV to pay the bills, I guess so be it. As long as they keep banging out the hits where it counts.....

Ferrari's SUV though - don't get me started lol I have a slightly different pov on that.

SeanFulop · May 25, 2018

As to the preference for Formula Dynamics transmission upgrades, I'm afraid I can't go there. I've already lost one TCU to electrical faults, and had to get a 13-year-old used computer to replace it. The idea of sticking additional modules onto such a fragile piece of unobtainium frightens me too much.

Rwc13 · May 25, 2018

akluch said:
1. Revealed: 2013 Maserati Quattroporte to Offer 404-HP 3.0L V-6, 523-HP 3.8L V-8 - "This new V-6, which shares its block with Chrysler’s Pentastar, will also be the engine in the upcoming Ghibli, a four-door 5 Series fighter due out next year."

2. Eurospares doesn't sell parts for Chrysler, so there's no comparison side by side.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOZnqnB6xDo - DeMuro's review of "modern Ghibli"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqTpMCq8uhk - his review of classic Ghibli.

And yes, I know he doesn't like QP 5 either, but he explained why older generation Ghibli is a fine car.

3. There're plenty of much better infotainment systems from other manufacturers and they all support Android Auto and Apple Car Play. :wink2:

Sharing parts with Chrysler briefly mentioned here: With the 2018 Maserati Ghibli, the Italian Brand Looks to Resurrect the NameplateAgain - The Drive despite the article praises Ghibli a lot.

Ah, so this is where you get your “facts”. Because the motor press and YouTubers are always right. And I presume no first hand experience at all as you seem to rely solely on what you heard/read elsewhere?

akluch · May 25, 2018

toshy said:
What exactly are you trying to prove and who are you fighting with?

The M156 platform has been around for almost five years, people know it inside out by now, yet you keep bringing and linking rumors and misinformed articles that speculated about it and were written long before its launch.

Don't you think there're way too many "rumors and misinformed articles" for the exotic brand like Maserati? The number of such articles points that there's really something wrong with 6th generation platform.

toshy said:
When it comes to similarities with the Chrysler cars, the list is very short is a very short one, and that is a fact, yet you keep insisting it's not. 99% of people here would take Mercedes sourced electrics and non-melting buttons any day over the old Italian ones.

1. The "melting" buttons (which were sticky, but not melting) is solved - plenty of cleaning solutions for the fraction of cost and the replacement ones are not sticky after couple of years of use. Couple of my friends who own Ghibli pointed that there're "sticky" buttons issue is resurfacing there as well.

2. So, FCA management is wrong by stating that they're machining the Pentastar blocks for F160 engine in Ghibli/QP6 V6 and Levante? :smile2:

toshy said:
The platform also has been proven very reliable, and except dumbfucks like demuro who have no idea what the brand means, everyone has praised it and acknowledged it as a real Maserati.

1. https://www.upi.com/Maserati-recalls-50000-luxury-vehicles-over-fire-hazards/6991486226804/ - "very reliable" indeed. :grin2: (oh, and there was a backup camera issue in Levante in 2017)
2. If you check the car shows you'll see how many people "acknowledge it as a real Maserati" - usually the 6th generation owners are either sent back with "sorry, guys, but these cars are not exotic anymore" or if they're in - nobody praises their cars because they're just too common.

toshy said:
All the owners that have switched from an older GT or QP (including me) are very satisfied with the new cars.

From recent talk with Maserati sales person: "we try hard to convince owners of 5th generation to switch to 6th one, but they politely denies. Very few of them made the switch" (was told during Levante presentation in 2016)

toshy said:
Of course we miss the character of the naturally aspirated engine, and that's not Maserati's fault, it's the damn rules and regulations, and you can't find a new car that haven't been castrated by those. But even so, both the V6 and the V8 are great engine that sound and perform like the should, they fit the cars' character, and it's a testament of Maserati's engineering that they pulled a miracle like this.

There's no miracle, just a mistake which doesn't help a brand. The cool part of 5th generation that it was presented as a 4 door Ferrarish sedan.

toshy said:
Yes, price of survival was that they *HAD* to offer cheaper entry level cars, but imagine how would a M139 QP look and feel like with a 330 hp entry level engine, without proper leather, wood/carbon and Alcantara. Anyway being only very slightly behind the (very optimistic) sale goals they set in 2013 shows it was a good strategy.

They expected to reach the goal of 25K cars sold in US annually, when they introduced the 6th generation in 2013. The goal still not met.
I'm not going to be a Maserati follower in the case when they're not delivering to the expectations of exotic brand. Yes, I like 5th generation a lot (and it was designed by Pininfarina - who was one of the top car designers), but if Levante Trofeo is so far the only best model they're able to deliver after 5 years of "new course to become a 'popular' car" - I'll choose other brands.

akluch · May 25, 2018

Rwc13 said:
Ah, so this is where you get your “facts”. Because the motor press and YouTubers are always right. And I presume no first hand experience at all as you seem to rely solely on what you heard/read elsewhere?

Oh, if you want to count the "heard" part, the Maserati dealership mechanics told me that QP 5th generation is true exotic car and 6th generation is just an odd "mass production" attempt.

Rwc13 · May 25, 2018

Again, no original opinion here

Help me decide...QP 5 (M139, 2003–2012) vs. QP 6 (M156, 2013–present)

jarm691

jarm691

toshy

Agent Smith

Agent Smith

toshy

akluch

akluch

toshy

Agent Smith

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