Very curious
Which FERRARI Engine is used on MASERATI's?
2 reading
zx870838557
1 - 20 of 43 Posts
Joined
·
7 Posts
Very curious
Joined
·
4,118 Posts
I don't believe that any of them are pulled directly from specific Ferraris, though the 4.2L was said to be similar to that in the F430. I don't know that the 4.7L engine in modern GTs has a Ferrari equivalent. And the Ghibli engine, though built by Ferrari, is unique to Maserati.
Joined
·
3,431 Posts
AFAIK, none. The Ferrari engine shop builds them, but they are Maserati spec engines and, as Elambo said, the 430 shares the block with the modern Maserati V8. That is the only shared part(other than hardware etc.). The 4.2 and 4.7 use the same block and you can take the 4.2L to 4.7L. IIRC Modena-Tec offers this service.
Joined
·
879 Posts
As correctly pointed out by elambo and lcdave, Maserati uses Maserati engines.
The V8s in the Gran Turismo and Gran Cabrio are so-called F136 engines. They are used in many Maserati and Ferrari models - and in the Alfa Romeo 8C - but in different specs. The F136 engine family was actually introduced in a Maserati; the 4200 Spyder (and then in the 4200 Coupe) in 2002. It made its first Ferrari appearance in the 430 in 2004.
The Maserati and Ferrari engines are far from identical. Displacements differ, and the Maserati F136 engines are crossplane crankshaft engines, whereas the Ferrari F136 engines are flatplane crankshaft engines. But, they are all built in Maranello.
The new V8s - the (twin-turbocharged) F154 family - also differ in Maserati and Ferrari applications, and was, again, first introduced in a Maserati; the Quattroporte VI in 2013.
Expect a version of the V6 engine in the new Ghibli to be introduced in some Ferrari at some point...
Even the V12 (the F149) used in the MC12 is not the same in Maserati and Ferrari configurations. Most importantly, the MC12 has a gear-driven camshaft system, whereas the Ferraris have a more mundane chain-driven system.
The last Maserati engine that was both designed and built in Viale Ciro Menotti was the 3200 twin-turbocharged V8, last used in the 3200GT (1998-2002).
The V8s in the Gran Turismo and Gran Cabrio are so-called F136 engines. They are used in many Maserati and Ferrari models - and in the Alfa Romeo 8C - but in different specs. The F136 engine family was actually introduced in a Maserati; the 4200 Spyder (and then in the 4200 Coupe) in 2002. It made its first Ferrari appearance in the 430 in 2004.
The Maserati and Ferrari engines are far from identical. Displacements differ, and the Maserati F136 engines are crossplane crankshaft engines, whereas the Ferrari F136 engines are flatplane crankshaft engines. But, they are all built in Maranello.
The new V8s - the (twin-turbocharged) F154 family - also differ in Maserati and Ferrari applications, and was, again, first introduced in a Maserati; the Quattroporte VI in 2013.
Expect a version of the V6 engine in the new Ghibli to be introduced in some Ferrari at some point...
Even the V12 (the F149) used in the MC12 is not the same in Maserati and Ferrari configurations. Most importantly, the MC12 has a gear-driven camshaft system, whereas the Ferraris have a more mundane chain-driven system.
The last Maserati engine that was both designed and built in Viale Ciro Menotti was the 3200 twin-turbocharged V8, last used in the 3200GT (1998-2002).
merak1974 - Thank you. Very insightful explanation of the Maserati / Ferrari engines.
Interesting your point on the new Ghibli V6 twin turbo ... although the Ghibli has some definite improvement opportunities to be in the Maserati family ... the engine ... especially the S/SQ4 version seems to have significant upside. Almost de-tuned not to compete too closely with V8 cousins or AWD system is not designed for the load(?).
I've had an SQ4 for almost 1.5 years and compared to a "tuned" SQ4 it is amazing what was left as upside HP/torque. Maybe someday Maserati will factory leverage some of that untapped power.
Interesting your point on the new Ghibli V6 twin turbo ... although the Ghibli has some definite improvement opportunities to be in the Maserati family ... the engine ... especially the S/SQ4 version seems to have significant upside. Almost de-tuned not to compete too closely with V8 cousins or AWD system is not designed for the load(?).
I've had an SQ4 for almost 1.5 years and compared to a "tuned" SQ4 it is amazing what was left as upside HP/torque. Maybe someday Maserati will factory leverage some of that untapped power.
Joined
·
242 Posts
well its at least good for the 503 bhp in the Alfa Giulia.
Joined
·
879 Posts
Totally agree. I would be surprised if the top version of the (hopefully) soon to be launched Alfieri doesn't have a 500HP+ V6 twin turbo.
Joined
·
879 Posts
:grin2:
Joined
·
879 Posts
This might be it: Ferrari Dino to return as V6-engined sports car | Autocar
Joined
·
879 Posts
Hm... I have read in another forum that the engine in the new Giulia (Quadrifoglio version) is a 90 degrees V6, which would suggest that it is derived from the F154 Ferrari/Maserati V8 family (which has a 90 degrees configuration), not the 60 degrees V6 designed by Maserati for the Ghibli...
But, I haven't seen any official spec sheet yet...
Joined
·
75 Posts
I thought that the v6 in the Ghibli is a mix of Us and Euro parts doesn't it have a Chrysler penstar block made in the U.S. Which is shipped to Ferrari for the balance of parts
Isn't this correct ?
Isn't this correct ?
Joined
·
879 Posts
There are probably people in this forum that know this so sure, but I don't think the Ghibli petrol engines have much, if anything, to do with the Pentastar. It is true, however, that Chrysler is among the suppliers (but not the only one....) of the engine block: http://www.autonews.com/article/201...cle/20140908/OEM01/309089978/maseratis-secret:-chrysler-makes-its-engine-blocks
Joined
·
75 Posts
Thank you for your response and link !
Regards
Russ
Regards
Russ
Joined
·
75 Posts
Thank you for sending the link it really cleared everything up for me
Regards
Russ
Regards
Russ
Interesting article ... thanks for sharing.
Sounds like all V6 blocks for current generation QP and Ghibli were cast in US but machined by Weber GmbH through mid 2014 than phased into US during summer of 2014. I guess you could infer by now, (MY2015 and MY2016), would have Chrysler cast and machine majority of engine blocks to keep within FCA manufacturing network.
machined in Europe by supplier Weber Automotive GmbH. But demand for the Maserati sedans began outstripping Weber's ability to keep up earlier this year sept 2014
Sounds like all V6 blocks for current generation QP and Ghibli were cast in US but machined by Weber GmbH through mid 2014 than phased into US during summer of 2014. I guess you could infer by now, (MY2015 and MY2016), would have Chrysler cast and machine majority of engine blocks to keep within FCA manufacturing network.
machined in Europe by supplier Weber Automotive GmbH. But demand for the Maserati sedans began outstripping Weber's ability to keep up earlier this year sept 2014
Joined
·
4,118 Posts
I didn't get a read on the %'s. Chrysler is covering the spillover casting but does that surpass Weber's output?
The bigger questions I'm left asking are: does it matter? Is one different than the other? Is Weber's output superior, or inferior, to Chrysler's?
My gut tells me that cars from either camp would have identical blocks.
Joined
·
142 Posts
Just to illustrate the difference a cross plane crankshaft makes - now the usually diesel-slow-revving US muscle cars can take 8k rpm:
Holy Flat-Plane Crankshaft: We Finally Get an In-Depth Look at the 2016 Ford Mustang Shelby GT350/GT350R?s 5.2-liter V-8 ? News ? Car and Driver | Car and Driver Blog
Joined
·
75 Posts
Thanks for posting that link and video it was awesome and I now have an understanding of the advantage !
Regards
Russ
Regards
Russ
Joined
·
5 Posts
I can definitely speak to the Ghibli engine.
The block is a Chrysler Pentastar block cast in Kokomo that has been de-stroked. The bare blocks are sent to Trenton, where they are machined. Chrysler machines the blocks (on separate equipment and to Ferrari specs) in-house (there is a photo of machined, palletized Ghibli blocks at the Trenton engine plant floating around the Allpar.com website somewhere).
The heads are Ferrari designed (though I am not 100% sure about the machining).
Here is an article on Allpar about it https://www.allpar.com/news/2014/09/ferrari-engines-imported-from-detroit-25974
Of course, Maserati and FCA aren't exactly keen on admitting that the 90,000 Dollar Ghibli is running around with a plebian Chrysler-derived block, so it's all spoken of in hushed tones.
In any case, this is in no way a bad thing. The Pentastar is an excellent engine in any one of it's iterations and the Heads are actually the source of the magic in almost any engine.
The block is a Chrysler Pentastar block cast in Kokomo that has been de-stroked. The bare blocks are sent to Trenton, where they are machined. Chrysler machines the blocks (on separate equipment and to Ferrari specs) in-house (there is a photo of machined, palletized Ghibli blocks at the Trenton engine plant floating around the Allpar.com website somewhere).
The heads are Ferrari designed (though I am not 100% sure about the machining).
Here is an article on Allpar about it https://www.allpar.com/news/2014/09/ferrari-engines-imported-from-detroit-25974
Of course, Maserati and FCA aren't exactly keen on admitting that the 90,000 Dollar Ghibli is running around with a plebian Chrysler-derived block, so it's all spoken of in hushed tones.
In any case, this is in no way a bad thing. The Pentastar is an excellent engine in any one of it's iterations and the Heads are actually the source of the magic in almost any engine.
Joined
·
879 Posts
Doesn't make much sense to revive a thread that has been inactive for over two years with "news" from 2014...
1 - 20 of 43 Posts
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
