02 Spyder would crank but not start. Showed a P1570 immobilizer code. On a hunch, I turned on and off the alarm system. It now starts with no codes. Looks like something in the alarm system sets the immobilizer even when the right key is used. Who knows? Electronics drive us crazy now and may someday be the death of cars like these.
P1570 Immobilizer Rev1
Tony H
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02 Spyder would crank but not start. Showed a P1570 immobilizer code. On a hunch, I turned on and off the alarm system. It now starts with no codes. Looks like something in the alarm system sets the immobilizer even when the right key is used. Who knows? Electronics drive us crazy now and may someday be the death of cars like these.
Hi Tony
I had the same problem with my Coupe GT. See immobilizer woes.Took 2 months and a few set backs. Can you start the car with the gas pedal emergency start?
These cars will have increasing immobiliser problems but there are solutions out there to keep them where they belong....on the road.
I had the same problem with my Coupe GT. See immobilizer woes.Took 2 months and a few set backs. Can you start the car with the gas pedal emergency start?
These cars will have increasing immobiliser problems but there are solutions out there to keep them where they belong....on the road.
Had the same problem come back today. After disconnecting the battery negative terminal for a while everything is fine again (so Rev 1). But something that just randomly kills the car doesn't give much comfort.
Evan, I'll look at your thread to see what you did; thanks. I don't have the emergency start code as I bought the car used. Evan have you, or anyone else reading, ever tried to get the code from Maserati? Also, the immobilizer has its own ECU (under the dash) but does the alarm unit (in the trunk) turn on the immobilizer?
I was in the computer business and I always said security was how much you wanted to punish the innocent. The bad guys can always get around it.
Evan, I'll look at your thread to see what you did; thanks. I don't have the emergency start code as I bought the car used. Evan have you, or anyone else reading, ever tried to get the code from Maserati? Also, the immobilizer has its own ECU (under the dash) but does the alarm unit (in the trunk) turn on the immobilizer?
I was in the computer business and I always said security was how much you wanted to punish the innocent. The bad guys can always get around it.
Hi Tony. From my understanding the immobilizer ECU only reads the key transponder via the ignition antenna ring and veries that with the eeprom code in the ECU. If all matches up, the immobilizer is deactivated. The alarm is a completely separate system, but I have no knowledge of that.
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Thanks Catmanv2 for confirming that.
Tony, if your obd2 reader is flagging up only the immobilizer code, then I can only assue you have a loose connection somewhere between the immobilizer to ecu or to the antenna. When the ecu periodically rechecks systems and the immobilizer fails the ECU internal testing it will randomnly cause the problems you are experiencing. Check the connections unter the steering wheel. There is a post on this forum which referred to a faulty or loose connection.
Tony, if your obd2 reader is flagging up only the immobilizer code, then I can only assue you have a loose connection somewhere between the immobilizer to ecu or to the antenna. When the ecu periodically rechecks systems and the immobilizer fails the ECU internal testing it will randomnly cause the problems you are experiencing. Check the connections unter the steering wheel. There is a post on this forum which referred to a faulty or loose connection.
An update. Working fine this morning.
Did some more research (3200GT manuals are a good source) and yes, the alarm system and the immobilizer are not connected. The immobilizer is connected to the ECU by a single, unshieldedgreen light blue/yellow (on 4200) wire so whatever happens happens there. We know the key codes are in the ECU. The battery in the key fob is not part of the immobilizer system. Some further research reveals something else. A while ago I got a Bluetooth device that allows connecting my smartphone to the audio system via FM. Works great, BUT after a search I find Bluetooth (or Soretooth as I call it now) can interfere with the immobilizer. Probably overwhelms the weak key signal. I've pulled the plug on Soretooth and see what happens. Still a work in progress.
Did some more research (3200GT manuals are a good source) and yes, the alarm system and the immobilizer are not connected. The immobilizer is connected to the ECU by a single, unshielded
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Immobiliser on these is completely passive. The battery in the fob is only for the remote locking etc.
Not impossible, but I suspect not the actual issue. The connection to the antenna around the ignition is known to fail. Not often but it is known.
C
An update. Bluetooth unplugged and car is starting fine. A search on the Internet confirms Bluetooth interference. Also my Mazda Owners Manual actually says Bluetooth (transmitters) can cause problems.
Just as an added maintenance item I pulled the immobilizer fuse and relay and sprayed with contact cleaner. Also sprayed into the back of immobilizer connectors.
Now a question. Where do the key codes actually live? When you program a key you're actually connected to the ECU, right? If anyone has programmed a key, do you have to enter a code? Can you program a key with the Launch scanner that people use for CC settings? The ECU and immobilizer are connected by a single wire that does not look like a serial data connection to me.
Just as an added maintenance item I pulled the immobilizer fuse and relay and sprayed with contact cleaner. Also sprayed into the back of immobilizer connectors.
Now a question. Where do the key codes actually live? When you program a key you're actually connected to the ECU, right? If anyone has programmed a key, do you have to enter a code? Can you program a key with the Launch scanner that people use for CC settings? The ECU and immobilizer are connected by a single wire that does not look like a serial data connection to me.
Hi Tony
Glad you where able to solve your intermediate fault problem. Good to know that bluetooth can cause this problem.
Now to your question(s)..
"Where do the key codes actually live?" - the key codes are a set of 5 digits from 1-9 that are printed on the keycode card and are stored as 4 pairs of HEX data on the ECU eeprom. If there is a fault with the immobilizer, then this sequence can be used according to the emergency start sequence in the M138 handbook. Unfortunately I have not been able to 'decipher' how the 4 pairs of HEX relate to these 5 decimal digits.
"When you program a key you're actually connected to the ECU, right? If anyone has programmed a key, do you have to enter a code?"
- programing a key ordered from Maserati is no simple task. It required 3 processes.
1) physical key that Maserati has made based on your VIN and/or keycard security code (not the 5 digit code)
2) FOB which connects via RFID to the alarm system and can be put into setup mode by anyone using a sequence of button pressing when sitting in the driver seat. (This is good to know if your FOB becomes unsynced - e.g. could happen when battery FOB is faulty or dead.)
3) The transponder is the tiny small piece of rectangle shaped plastic which looks useless and is easily lost when changing the battery. This little piece of plastic is most tricky part of the key coding process and required an SD3/SDx programmer tool. The garage tech/ SDx owner has one shot at getting it right. The instructions with multiple steps need to be followed exactly or you have useless piece of plastic.
"Can you program a key with the Launch scanner that people use for CC settings?"
- probably not. I have no experience tho.
"The ECU and immobilizer are connected by a single wire that does not look like a serial data connection to me."
- Maserati used the k-line diagnosis system which requires only one wire for bilateral communication. This may be the communication form used but I can't be sure.
Regards
Glad you where able to solve your intermediate fault problem. Good to know that bluetooth can cause this problem.
Now to your question(s)..
"Where do the key codes actually live?" - the key codes are a set of 5 digits from 1-9 that are printed on the keycode card and are stored as 4 pairs of HEX data on the ECU eeprom. If there is a fault with the immobilizer, then this sequence can be used according to the emergency start sequence in the M138 handbook. Unfortunately I have not been able to 'decipher' how the 4 pairs of HEX relate to these 5 decimal digits.
"When you program a key you're actually connected to the ECU, right? If anyone has programmed a key, do you have to enter a code?"
- programing a key ordered from Maserati is no simple task. It required 3 processes.
1) physical key that Maserati has made based on your VIN and/or keycard security code (not the 5 digit code)
2) FOB which connects via RFID to the alarm system and can be put into setup mode by anyone using a sequence of button pressing when sitting in the driver seat. (This is good to know if your FOB becomes unsynced - e.g. could happen when battery FOB is faulty or dead.)
3) The transponder is the tiny small piece of rectangle shaped plastic which looks useless and is easily lost when changing the battery. This little piece of plastic is most tricky part of the key coding process and required an SD3/SDx programmer tool. The garage tech/ SDx owner has one shot at getting it right. The instructions with multiple steps need to be followed exactly or you have useless piece of plastic.
"Can you program a key with the Launch scanner that people use for CC settings?"
- probably not. I have no experience tho.
"The ECU and immobilizer are connected by a single wire that does not look like a serial data connection to me."
- Maserati used the k-line diagnosis system which requires only one wire for bilateral communication. This may be the communication form used but I can't be sure.
Regards
Evan, you've obviously done a lot of work here. It's interesting because I could run my 62 E Type forever, but when the immobilizer fails on these cars you're left with a 3,500 lb piece of junk. When you say 4 pairs of HEX data what does one actually look like? HEX is of course base 16 numbers so maybe you can translate that to a 1 to 9 digits. So it sounds like the immobilizer unit transmits a HEX number to the ECU and if it's right the engine will start.
Tony. The HEX pairs are on the eeprom and are unique for each paired ECU/immobilizer ECU. You need to unsolder the eeprom and obtain the 4 HEX pairs with am eeprom reader for setting up an carlabimmo emulator. The emulator uses a k-line signal to/from ECU. The 5 digit code is only helpful to emergency start the vehicle.
Evan, would a scanner like this maybe have the functions you need to read the codes? https://iask.ai/q/launch-scanner-immo-functions-it42218
Tony, like I said the official Maserati OBD2 scanners or a Leonardo will 'read' these codes and other parameters for adding a factory new key to an existing car system or adding a factory new immobilizer ECU to an existing (ECU) car system. I am not aware if they allow the user to have access to the original 5 digit codes, but in the case of the factory new immobilizer ECU, it should be delivered with a new key code card. Any other none official OBD2 scanners that claim to cover all Maserati functions, may or may not have this function. Perhaps someone else on this forum can chip in regarding launch scanner products.
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Sorry I don't think this is correct.
The connection / operation to the alarm not RFID. It's a standard rolling code transmission. The 4200 series does, indeed, allow you to program the alarm ECU to accept additional transmitters by repeatedly pressing lock / unlock while in the car. Eventually the alarm LED will flash in a different sequence and pressing lock on any fob will allow that to operate the alarm / central locking.
For the immobiliser the code is hard written to the transponder in the key. This IS RFIID. For factory keys that code and transponder CANNOT (and is not) programmed or altered at all (by the factory method) The process is that diagnostic is connected to the ECU, all transponders that are currently stored as 'allowed' in the ECU are deleted, then you effectively add the transponder ID from each key you want to use (read by the immobiliser system direct from the key)
And you can do it as many times as you like. In fact, every time you add or remove a key, you're going to complete the process.
Aftermarket keys and transponders are available. These may be in different flavours.
Hard coded (you need to programme the car as above)
Write once: You can, with the correct gear, copy a code that is already stored in the ECU and write it to the new immobiliser. Effectively copying a key.
Write many times. As above, but you can re-write the codes as many times as you like.
There are drawbacks with the last two methods in that you cannot stop a lost key from being used to start the car.
C
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