What changes were made to get the 10hp & 20lbs improvement between MY12 & MY13? - Maserati Forum
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post #1 of 36 Old 06-18-2019, 08:17 PM Thread Starter
 
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What changes were made to get the 10hp & 20lbs improvement between MY12 & MY13?

Hello All,

Thanks in advance for your time reading this.

I recently got a QP S MY 2012. (been loving it so far) - I didn't realize however that there was a MY 2013 QP 5. When doing research, I used Wikipedia which stopped at MY 2012 (so I assumed errenously, that was the 'last' year) I've since actually corrected the entry.

The question is this. For MY 2013 - there was a 10hp and 20lbs increase in torque for both the S and GTS.

Reading through the service bulletin https://academy.maserati.com/wbt/upl..._Course_EN.pdf, I see there was changes in 2011 to the F 136 engine

1) hydraulic tappets
2) DLC finish/reed valves

this supposedly only improved fuel economy and not performance for the QPs. However the tappets/DLC did yield the 10hp/+20lbs in the case of the Grant Turismos.

Fast forward to 2013 and all the whole range seem to get the HP/Torque boost - it is explained for the Gran Turismos got some better pistons, updated remapping, but the service bulletin above says nothing about why the QPs got the improvement. I did notice they have different engine codes between the 2012 and 2013 F136s

Hoping you Maserati experts can chime in and give your $0.02.

Thanks again in advance for the education I hope to get.

Cheers
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post #2 of 36 Old 06-18-2019, 08:31 PM Thread Starter
 
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hmmm...reading through it more, seems like it doesn't matter for me. I live in California. Maximum RON we can get here is 95. Looks like you need at least 98 for MY 2013 "Power Increase Package."

I actually feel better, considering I wouldn't have been able to take advantage of the changes anyway.

But still, would love to see what people out there know/think.

Cheers
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post #3 of 36 Old 06-18-2019, 08:59 PM
 
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I read your post twice and I still don't see what exactly you are asking....All the information seems to be in that PDF...They got increased power from using a low friction coating and using reed valves in the oil sump to reduce windage( the drag of oil trapped in the crank throws)....Jason

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post #4 of 36 Old 06-18-2019, 10:34 PM Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by [email protected] Enzo`s Atlanta View Post
I read your post twice and I still don't see what exactly you are asking....All the information seems to be in that PDF...They got increased power from using a low friction coating and using reed valves in the oil sump to reduce windage( the drag of oil trapped in the crank throws)....Jason

Thanks Jason for responding, it is much appreciated.

The low friction coating and reed valves were done in Model Year 2012 QPs which according the the PDF improved efficiency (but not performance)

Changes for QP MY 2012:
The “Low Friction Program” package has been applied to the entire range of 4.7 litre engines; this package improves performance and reduces fuel consumption by about 6%.

The result is an engine with lower fuel consumption and emissions that maintains its performance in terms of power and torque: 323 kW (440 HP) at 7,000 rpm and 490 Nm at 4,750 rpm.


So MY 2009 - 2011 HP = 430
MY 2012: HP = still 430 (matches my owners manual for MY 2012 QP)

But in MY 2013 the QP got a 10HP boost and a corresponding 20lbs foot boost - but no explanation as to why/how. The PDF above gives zero explanation as to what changes if any were made.

MY 2013: HP = 440 - the same boost that the the Gran Turismo's received due to revised engine mapping and RON 95 fuel. - but the pdf specifically said that "Peformance upgrade did not apply to MY 2013 QPs"

Hope this clears things up.
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post #5 of 36 Old 06-18-2019, 10:54 PM
 
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I see what you are saying..I have no idea...I imagine it was a software thing or the exhaust was better on a M145 car...Jason

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post #6 of 36 Old 06-18-2019, 11:21 PM Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by [email protected] Enzo`s Atlanta View Post
I see what you are saying..I have no idea...I imagine it was a software thing or the exhaust was better on a M145 car...Jason
Thank you so much, I was thinking the same thing myself.

Basically, there seem to be these engine codes for the QP

F136YG 08–10 QP S 430 PS (316 kW; 424 hp)(361 lb⋅ft) standard hydraulic tappets
F136YL 12 QP S 430 PS (316 kW; 424 hp)(361 lb⋅ft) hydraulic tappets w/ DLC finish/reed valves
F136YR 13 QP S 440 PS (324 kW; 434 hp) 510 N⋅m (376 lb⋅ft) hydraulic tappets w/ DLC finish/reed valves
F136YH 08-10 QP GT S 440 PS (324 kW; 434 hp) 490 N⋅m (361 lb⋅ft) at 4,750 rpm standard hydraulic tappets
F136YM 12 440 PS (324 kW; 434 hp) 510 N⋅m (376 lb⋅ft) hydraulic tappets w/ DLC finish/reed valves
F136YT 13 450 PS (331 kW; 444 hp) 510 N⋅m (376 lb⋅ft) hydraulic tappets w/ DLC finish/reed valves
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post #7 of 36 Old 06-18-2019, 11:25 PM
 
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It maybe a marketing thing were you don't want your flagship car to have the same HP as your sedan...Jason

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post #8 of 36 Old 06-18-2019, 11:57 PM Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by [email protected] Enzo`s Atlanta View Post
It maybe a marketing thing were you don't want your flagship car to have the same HP as your sedan...Jason
I was thinking that too...

It wouldn't surprise me of all the engines were pretty much the same output.

Cheers
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post #9 of 36 Old 06-20-2019, 07:26 PM
 
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Well pretty sure 2013 QP5 m139's are left over 2012's. So most 2013's are the newer QP6 m156 platform. Im thinking those 2013 updates are for the granturismo cars and not the QP5.

For the 2011 and 2012 QP5 the S has 425 hp and the GTS has 433 hp do to revised intake design and exhaust with valved mufflers.

2011 Quattroporte S, 1987 425i biturbo

Last edited by 2fromtheCouve; 06-20-2019 at 07:53 PM.
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post #10 of 36 Old 06-20-2019, 07:49 PM
 
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Also read this explanation for HP increase for the GranTurismo's.

"The Power Increase package has been applied to the following cars: GranTurismo MC Stradale, GranTurismo MC, GranTurismo Sport and GranCabrio Sport (GranTurismo Convertible Sport).
The increased performance (+10 HP and 20 Nm of torque) has been achieved in SPORT mode and at engine speeds above 5,500 rpm. These figures were arrived at by optimising the engine mapping for the use of petrol with at least 98 RON, increasing the valve overlap above 5,500 rpm thanks to the VVT system and optimal use of timing advance. In Normal mode, the intake timing control devices are used in the same way as previously."

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post #11 of 36 Old 06-21-2019, 06:27 PM Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by 2fromtheCouve View Post
Well pretty sure 2013 QP5 m139's are left over 2012's. So most 2013's are the newer QP6 m156 platform. Im thinking those 2013 updates are for the granturismo cars and not the QP5.

For the 2011 and 2012 QP5 the S has 425 hp and the GTS has 433 hp do to revised intake design and exhaust with valved mufflers.
I agree with you. However, if you click the pdf above you'll see the following discrepancy

2012 QP S 5 = 420 hp & 490 nm
2013 QP S 5 = 430 hp & 510 nm

&

2012 QP GT S 5 = 430 hp & 490 nm
2013 QP GT S 5 = 440 hp & 510 nm

No explanation.

The Power increase package was applied to the Grant Turismo to 2013 but according to the above doc, not the Quattroporte - hence my confusion.

Your thoughts?
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post #12 of 36 Old 06-21-2019, 06:54 PM
 
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No one on here works at the engine plant so you are probably just gonna get an educated guess..I imagine it was a slight software tweak...Jason

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post #13 of 36 Old 06-22-2019, 08:13 AM
 
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I have a 2013 and I'm pretty sure the owner's manual says 434 HP, I will have to get it out tomorrow to look. An explanation as to why is the greater mystery I suppose. I'll take it though.

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post #14 of 36 Old 06-22-2019, 04:56 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2fromtheCouve View Post
Well pretty sure 2013 QP5 m139's are left over 2012's. So most 2013's are the newer QP6 m156 platform. Im thinking those 2013 updates are for the granturismo cars and not the QP5.

For the 2011 and 2012 QP5 the S has 425 hp and the GTS has 433 hp do to revised intake design and exhaust with valved mufflers.
My 2011 owner's manual says the GTS has 440hp.

Just adding to the confusion...

Hans.

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post #15 of 36 Old 06-22-2019, 11:54 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4regt4 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2fromtheCouve View Post
Well pretty sure 2013 QP5 m139's are left over 2012's. So most 2013's are the newer QP6 m156 platform. Im thinking those 2013 updates are for the granturismo cars and not the QP5.

For the 2011 and 2012 QP5 the S has 425 hp and the GTS has 433 hp do to revised intake design and exhaust with valved mufflers.
My 2011 owner's manual says the GTS has 440hp.

Just adding to the confusion...

Hans.
You're right, page 228 says 425 for S and 440 for GTS.
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