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post #31 of 54 Old 05-06-2019, 01:38 PM

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Originally Posted by v8chris View Post
UPDATE

They tried changing the transmission ECU (from another car) and it worked... Now it is just a matter of finding an ECU with the same software version... as I was informed...

What usually causes this type of problem?
In layman's terms, the TCU only stores the data that controls the shifting of your car. The parameters change / adjust themselves, based on the age of your clutch, your actual clutch wear, your anticipated clutch wear, etc. If you replace the TCU, all of the NCR values will be set to the parameters of the previous installation, regardless of software version. So, I'd just attempt to adjust the current settings in the original TCU first using a genuine SD3. EXACTLY like Jason said, I'd say 90% of TCU replacements are people who are improperly programming them.

Do we know if they ran a deis self learn when they bled the actuator? I don't believe in coincidences and since this started with a faulty F1 pump, I'd suspect that the bleeding/DEIS calibration wasn't properly performed when the pump was replaced, leading to them wanting to replace a perfectly good TCU. Exceptions do occur, but this is just my suspicion.

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post #32 of 54 Old 05-07-2019, 07:13 AM Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by ErikDiSomma View Post
In layman's terms, the TCU only stores the data that controls the shifting of your car. The parameters change / adjust themselves, based on the age of your clutch, your actual clutch wear, your anticipated clutch wear, etc. If you replace the TCU, all of the NCR values will be set to the parameters of the previous installation, regardless of software version. So, I'd just attempt to adjust the current settings in the original TCU first using a genuine SD3. EXACTLY like Jason said, I'd say 90% of TCU replacements are people who are improperly programming them.

Do we know if they ran a deis self learn when they bled the actuator? I don't believe in coincidences and since this started with a faulty F1 pump, I'd suspect that the bleeding/DEIS calibration wasn't properly performed when the pump was replaced, leading to them wanting to replace a perfectly good TCU. Exceptions do occur, but this is just my suspicion.
Thank you, Erik. I shared the same with the mechanic.

What if the car does not start with the original TCU and works when replaced?
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post #33 of 54 Old 05-07-2019, 07:48 AM Thread Starter
 
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Angry :(

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post #34 of 54 Old 05-07-2019, 01:45 PM

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Originally Posted by v8chris View Post
Thank you, Erik. I shared the same with the mechanic.

What if the car does not start with the original TCU and works when replaced?
Well that would be the typical result if your original TCU has improper parameters set, or if one of the many procedures was carried out wrong.

The vast majority of the F1 techs out there only understand programming on a cursory level. PIS setting, degradation index, self-learns, etc. If, however, there is one setting that gets messed up on any deeper level (gear change thresholds, accelerometer calibration, or even missing code, depending on what programming tool they use) then the car goes into recovery mode until the programming is fixed, or a TCU is installed with parameters that more closely match the needs of your car. This is why you can take two TCUs with the same 301 software from two cars manufactured a day apart from yours, and one will work on your car and one won't.

So, replacing the TCU would be a fine shortcut around reprogramming, but you must bear in mind that all the values in the NCR need to be restored to your car's specifications anyway. If you're running a later model car (some Euros have the older Sofast 2 setups), then it can be very complicated to do correctly.

Anyway, my point to all this is that replacing the TCU may be the only option in cases where the programming somehow got corrupt and there's nobody there to "uncorrupt" it. I simply don't buy the idea of TCUs going bad or having hardware failure.

Erik Di Somma
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post #35 of 54 Old 05-09-2019, 06:13 AM Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by ErikDiSomma View Post
Well that would be the typical result if your original TCU has improper parameters set, or if one of the many procedures was carried out wrong.

The vast majority of the F1 techs out there only understand programming on a cursory level. PIS setting, degradation index, self-learns, etc. If, however, there is one setting that gets messed up on any deeper level (gear change thresholds, accelerometer calibration, or even missing code, depending on what programming tool they use) then the car goes into recovery mode until the programming is fixed, or a TCU is installed with parameters that more closely match the needs of your car. This is why you can take two TCUs with the same 301 software from two cars manufactured a day apart from yours, and one will work on your car and one won't.

So, replacing the TCU would be a fine shortcut around reprogramming, but you must bear in mind that all the values in the NCR need to be restored to your car's specifications anyway. If you're running a later model car (some Euros have the older Sofast 2 setups), then it can be very complicated to do correctly.

Anyway, my point to all this is that replacing the TCU may be the only option in cases where the programming somehow got corrupt and there's nobody there to "uncorrupt" it. I simply don't buy the idea of TCUs going bad or having hardware failure.

This is their reply >>> I agree with everything. Generally, the person who wrote it is right, most TCU replacements are not needed and could be properly calibrated. However, the issue is different. When the pressure in the system is going low (of example during calibration), sometimes your TCU is not able to release / is not releasing pump relay, or releasing it too late. It doesnít look as a programming or software issue. To write down all the parameters process has to be successfully finished. With any other TCU, even if itís not matching CFC version, even if it generates errors, the problem with steering F1 pump not occurs.
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post #36 of 54 Old 05-09-2019, 12:17 PM
 
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Those guys are pretty patient....If you go to most shops and tell them how to fix the car via the internet it probably will be frowned upon or they'll just tell you to fix it yourself...Jason

ASE Master Tech. 29 years experience
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post #37 of 54 Old 05-09-2019, 12:42 PM Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by [email protected] Enzo`s Atlanta View Post
Those guys are pretty patient....If you go to most shops and tell them how to fix the car via the internet it probably will be frowned upon or they'll just tell you to fix it yourself...Jason
They are, Jason...
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post #38 of 54 Old 05-09-2019, 01:19 PM

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So, to summarize, the internal pressure dips below 40 bar and the pump fails to prime with the engine idling, causing the car to go into pressure recovery and it jumps to N.

I understand that they have tried a different TCU in your car but have they attempted to move the bad TCU out of your car and into another to replicate the problem in another vehicle? I'd prefer using the same vehicle from which you removed the TCU the first time.

Has anything on the driver door, window switch, etc., been disconnected or worked on by any chance?

I'm not saying there is no problem with the TCU - I'm just trying to isolate the source before you start throwing money at the car. Although rare, it is possible that the actual coding that controls the pump cycling at idle became corrupt, leaving everything else intact. It is still not a hardware problem, but fixing it won't be easy even at most dealers, if this is the case. All the code is available though MODIS using the SD3, but from what I understand, you need to recognize the missing or corrupt code and that can get complicated.

Erik Di Somma
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post #39 of 54 Old 05-09-2019, 01:25 PM

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Originally Posted by [email protected] Enzo`s Atlanta View Post
Those guys are pretty patient....If you go to most shops and tell them how to fix the car via the internet it probably will be frowned upon or they'll just tell you to fix it yourself...Jason
I totally agree however I've caught the local indi searching ML for a solution a few times. He had multiple Ferraris in the garage too, by the way. Can't miss that blue MaseratiLife banner lol. Can see it a mile away.

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post #40 of 54 Old 06-19-2019, 02:01 PM Thread Starter
 
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UPDATE:

Sadly, the car is in still the garage after my last message ... :(

The garage quoted almost USD 2,000 to get a TCU with the same software number. Part# 230641. Software version CFC301F.64

I found a TCU from a Quattroporte locally for USD400 approx but not a SportGT version. Almost the same Software # (CFC301F.63), but different part# (219347)

We tried it with a brand new F1 pump as well... The car started... gear is shifting... car is driving.... but it is not driving properly. High RPM with slow speed. They said it is because my car is SportGT and the TCU that I got is not the same.

Is it really not possible to reprogram a TCU to the same software version?

Any leads where I can get a cheaper TCU with part# 230641 with Software version CFC301F.64 ?
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Last edited by v8chris; 06-20-2019 at 04:39 AM.
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post #41 of 54 Old 06-19-2019, 04:17 PM

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Originally Posted by v8chris View Post
UPDATE:

Sadly, the car is in still the garage after my last message ... :(

The garage quoted almost USD 2,000 to get a TCU with the same software number. Part# 2306441. Software version CFC301F.64

I found a TCU from a Quattroporte locally for USD400 approx but not a SportGT version. Almost the same Software # (CFC301F.63), but different part# (219347)

We tried it with a brand new F1 pump as well... The car started... gear is shifting... car is driving.... but it is not driving properly. High RPM with slow speed. They said it is because my car is SportGT and the TCU that I got is not the same.

Is it really not possible to reprogram a TCU to the same software version?

Any leads where I can get a cheaper TCU with part# 219347 with Software version CFC301F.64 ?
There are a number of part numbers for QP TCUs. To the best of my knowledge, there are three "groups" of compatibility, maybe 4 but there are like 8 or 9 different part numbers. Being a late model Sport GT, you'll need one from a late model Sport GT. There were many adjustments made in that MY that controlled shifting.

Erik Di Somma
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1989 228 (past)
1985 Quattroporte III (past)
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post #42 of 54 Old 06-19-2019, 04:21 PM

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Quote:
Originally Posted by v8chris View Post
UPDATE:

Sadly, the car is in still the garage after my last message ... :(

The garage quoted almost USD 2,000 to get a TCU with the same software number. Part# 2306441. Software version CFC301F.64

I found a TCU from a Quattroporte locally for USD400 approx but not a SportGT version. Almost the same Software # (CFC301F.63), but different part# (219347)

We tried it with a brand new F1 pump as well... The car started... gear is shifting... car is driving.... but it is not driving properly. High RPM with slow speed. They said it is because my car is SportGT and the TCU that I got is not the same.

Is it really not possible to reprogram a TCU to the same software version?

Any leads where I can get a cheaper TCU with part# 219347 with Software version CFC301F.64 ?
Also, you mentioned the local TCU had the different part number but after you asked to locate that same part number (219347). Which part number are you seeking, exactly? I will make some calls. I know a dismantler in FL who may have what you need.

Erik Di Somma
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1985 Quattroporte III (past)
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post #43 of 54 Old 06-20-2019, 04:38 AM Thread Starter
 
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Thanks Erik.

Sorry, the correct one is 230641, Software version CFC301F.64

I updated the post.
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post #44 of 54 Old 06-23-2019, 07:24 AM Thread Starter
 
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Any development @ErikDiSomma ?

Thank you!
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post #45 of 54 Old 06-24-2019, 01:21 PM

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Originally Posted by v8chris View Post
Any development @ErikDiSomma ?

Thank you!
I just left a message this morning. Sorry for the delay - I had to find the phone number. If you want, feel free to reach out to them - 813-300-1020.

Also, here is a link to an eBay listing for your part with the correct SW version:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/B875-M139-M...UAAOSwbjNciuQn

I will let you know if I get a response from the dismantlers.

Erik Di Somma
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1985 Quattroporte III (past)
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