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Thread: Hmmmm 2009 with F1 or 2011 MC sportline? Reply to Thread
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  Topic Review (Newest First)
11-07-2016 02:13 PM
isjm
Quote:
Originally Posted by 18000rpm View Post
Here's the sound from my stock 2009 GTS F1.

I love the crackles and pops whenever I lift or shift

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kmiryem0XJw
is the screeching from the brakes normal? i just got a used gts f1 and i have that same noise. 7k mileage
09-14-2016 05:44 PM
FormulaDynamics The GT F-1 models (MC-SHIFT / Stradale) do have adaptive shifting, meaning the harder you drive the faster it will shift, we didn't really want to ruin that feature but instead just allow you to enjoy the car more easily and without having to drive it quite so hard to get the better performance. The DBW will help get you the faster shifts sooner and without having to drive as hard but there are still protections in the system that we don't override such as for safety of the gearbox, including warming up. Also, there is a point where if you bring the fastest shifts on too quickly or not under the right circumstances, you'll run into a problem where it actually snaps pretty hard on the shift and can set off other alarms, so we found that the speed of the shift on these faster models does have to be matched to your acceleration or it will not be a smooth experience and is harder on the equipment. For those who've felt that quick hard shift on these rare GT F-1 models, you'll know what we're talking about there.

Agree with Craig on the F1 Transmission improvements, there is quite a bit of difference from the earlier F355, which was really the first generation F-1. The early 360 cars were the next generation, the later 360 / 430 cars had further improvements and the 599 was improved quite a bit again. The MC-SHIFT / Stradale Maserati shares the same gearbox as the 599 so it's really a good bit of technology in there!

Either way, the GTS or MC Stradale w/ F-1 are the best performers in the Maserati F-1 world currently and we all agree that they are a blast to drive!

Best Regards,
09-14-2016 02:29 AM
18000rpm
Quote:
Originally Posted by azapa View Post
I am wondering where you have seen the 5500rpm and 85%? I feel a noticeably fast shift in race mode at less than that, can not quantify how much less though.
I assume your car is an MC Stradale since only those have race mode.

I won't be surprised if the MC Stradale does the fastest shift in more conditions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig View Post
Is this true also with FD drive by wire module as well? The rpm range might still be the same but the DBW module actually might improve the 85% throttle pre-requisite. I haven't been able to install it on one of these cars yet but I'd imagine that would dynamically change the throttle response because of how the DBW works.
I have the FD DBW. Supposedly the DBW will make the car shift more aggressively under more conditions but I don't really feel a difference.
09-13-2016 03:41 PM
azapa I am wondering where you have seen the 5500rpm and 85%? I feel a noticeably fast shift in race mode at less than that, can not quantify how much less though.

One of my reasons for buying the car is to track it, shame the only decent circuit here has closed for now, but if that were the case the hard shifts at the rpm and throttle positions you mention would seem reasonable. I am sure these 60 or 100ms shifts are hard on the whole drive train - why waste them on road use?
09-13-2016 02:22 PM
Craig
Quote:
Originally Posted by 18000rpm View Post
Of course I know the gearbox should be warmed up.

My point is you only get the fast shifts above 5500rpm and 85% throttle, which is sometimes not easy to do on public roads.
Is this true also with FD drive by wire module as well? The rpm range might still be the same but the DBW module actually might improve the 85% throttle pre-requisite. I haven't been able to install it on one of these cars yet but I'd imagine that would dynamically change the throttle response because of how the DBW works.
09-13-2016 03:54 AM
18000rpm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig View Post
Also, there is a very real purpose to not allowing the gearbox to slam through gears until warmed up, akin to pulling your car out of the drive way and nailing it when it's not up to operating temp. It's really not something you should do. There's an optimal operating temperature for machines, they design them with safety stops so you don't do something that will be costly.
Of course I know the gearbox should be warmed up.

My point is you only get the fast shifts above 5500rpm and 85% throttle, which is sometimes not easy to do on public roads.
09-12-2016 01:59 PM
Craig
Quote:
Originally Posted by 18000rpm View Post
FYI all semi-auto gearboxes will downshift when coming to a stop, otherwise the engine will stall. For the GTS F1 that's the only time it will ever shift for you in manual mode. It won't even upshift for you at redline.

The gearbox is the tried and tested unit used in all semi-automatic Ferraris since the 355, until the Enzo/F430/599. Since the 458, Ferrari moved to a dual-clutch system with much faster shift times.

In the F430 and Enzo the shift times are 150ms. In our GTS F1 and 599 GTB (the 'F1 Superfast' refers to the improved gearbox) they improved it to 100ms. In the MC Stradale and F430 Scuderia it was further improved to 60ms.

What I don't quite like is that you only get the 100ms ('MC Shift') when you're above 5500rpm with more than 85% throttle (also the gearbox has to be warmed up, and then the 'MC Shift' indicator on the dash shows). Sometimes it's not easy to do that on public roads lol. When it does do the 'MC Shift' it feels awesome, a quick 'bwap!' and you're in the next gear and I don't lift at all.
There were many, many developments over the F1 system since the F355. The F1 in the 355 really cannot even be compared to the later F360s or F430, that's parts like the solenoids, potiometers, F1 pumps, etc, all totally different. Additionally, the first thing I would suggest to any of the early F360 clients I have is to switch the TCU out because it has an autocalibrated Kiss point that either slips the clutch or has the car around sideways to find a happy medium, you cannot adjust it. It's not just the mechanical parts that went through redesign, or the NCRs (TCU's) but all the firmware as well. What you have in that Mas. is heads and tails above anything designed back in early 2000's.

Also, there is a very real purpose to not allowing the gearbox to slam through gears until warmed up, akin to pulling your car out of the drive way and nailing it when it's not up to operating temp. It's really not something you should do. There's an optimal operating temperature for machines, they design them with safety stops so you don't do something that will be costly.

Finally, if you have an F1 car you should be toggling neutral coming to a stop the majority of the time if you are saving on clutch wear. Save the down shifting for spirited driving, or if you prefer showing off. The other side to this is it also saves on actuator wear. You really don't need to have your actuator shifting down through all the gears to come to a stop. If you thought a clutch was expensive to replace try replacing an Actuator in a GT with an F1 system. It was also redesigned inwardly to shift faster than it's previous older brother the GS, so you cannot even use an Actuator from the GS, like you could a 4200 series car.
09-12-2016 02:06 AM
azapa
Quote:
Originally Posted by azapa View Post
I will try this tonight Peterson, and even thought to video the driving experience to show others. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE IT.

The one reason I never bought a Maserati before (or Jag or AMG) is the fact they all had slush boxes with pretend paddles.. When I discovered the stradale had this box I knew I had to have it. It was THE selling factor (well, noise, beauty and front seats too) for me.

My special car, not DD, has to be as close to a race car possible: impractical, loud, bumpy, crap idle, scary. The stradale does most.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peterson View Post

The jolts and judders azapa reports when cold has less to do with the transmission and more to do with calibration of the carburetor -or lack there-off. To avoid this, simply turn-on the ignition and wait for the lights on the dashboard to turn-off (typically 2-3 secs) and then start the car after that!. Butter smooth drive-offs forward or backwards at low speed guaranteed!

Ok Peterson, hats off to you Sir for the tip because it seems to make a difference. Where did you find this tip (Ill be embarrassed if it is in the owners manual!!)?? Butter smooth!
09-09-2016 05:52 AM
18000rpm FYI all semi-auto gearboxes will downshift when coming to a stop, otherwise the engine will stall. For the GTS F1 that's the only time it will ever shift for you in manual mode. It won't even upshift for you at redline.

The gearbox is the tried and tested unit used in all semi-automatic Ferraris since the 355, until the Enzo/F430/599. Since the 458, Ferrari moved to a dual-clutch system with much faster shift times.

In the F430 and Enzo the shift times are 150ms. In our GTS F1 and 599 GTB (the 'F1 Superfast' refers to the improved gearbox) they improved it to 100ms. In the MC Stradale and F430 Scuderia it was further improved to 60ms.

What I don't quite like is that you only get the 100ms ('MC Shift') when you're above 5500rpm with more than 85% throttle (also the gearbox has to be warmed up, and then the 'MC Shift' indicator on the dash shows). Sometimes it's not easy to do that on public roads lol. When it does do the 'MC Shift' it feels awesome, a quick 'bwap!' and you're in the next gear and I don't lift at all.
09-08-2016 10:10 PM
azapa
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peterson View Post
The jolts and judders azapa reports when cold has less to do with the transmission and more to do with calibration of the carburetor -or lack there-off. To avoid this, simply turn-on the ignition and wait for the lights on the dashboard to turn-off (typically 2-3 secs) and then start the car after that!. Butter smooth drive-offs forward or backwards at low speed guaranteed!
I will try this tonight Peterson, and even thought to video the driving experience to show others. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE IT.

The one reason I never bought a Maserati before (or Jag or AMG) is the fact they all had slush boxes with pretend paddles.. When I discovered the stradale had this box I knew I had to have it. It was THE selling factor (well, noise, beauty and front seats too) for me.

My special car, not DD, has to be as close to a race car possible: impractical, loud, bumpy, crap idle, scary. The stradale does most.
09-08-2016 09:52 PM
Xxtant25 The F1 is great fun to drive, just make sure you do your home work and get a PPI (specifically on the transmission) on the car before hand. Just be prepared for the possibility of high repair/maintenance cost.

But I do enjoy mine 09 GTS F1, it just takes more preventive maintenance than I anticipated.

Just my onion.
09-08-2016 08:50 PM
sadcaper Thank everyone. F1 it is! Now just have to find the right one...

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
09-08-2016 08:18 PM
FormulaDynamics Simply put... if you're a real driver and appreciate the true benefits of the F-1 system, you'll love the GTS F-1. If you're not as focused on driving / shifting performance, get the 2011 model, it is a near problem free car with a bit lower maintenance. They really are both excellent models so either way you should be happy but if you love that manual shift F-1 trans and come as a happy SMG owner, you'll appreciate the GT-S F-1

Best Regards,
09-08-2016 04:18 PM
sadcaper Thanks for the info ZZJ. Good stuff.

Basically comes down to all the extras on the sportline or the F1 tranny. I think I'm leaning towards the F1.

There is one F1 with Sportline package for sale right now but it's going for 79k! That's crazy!



Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
09-08-2016 04:05 PM
ZZJ If you are in USA the F1 transmission only comes with 2009 year model which there were only 300 ever made. It will shift in 100 millisecond if you are in manual mode and high RPM. For the euro version F1 they upgrade the transmission to achieve 60 millisecond shift in later years.
For the exhaust sound the F1 is a little bit different since different engine ignition timing that Peterson mentioned. The mufflers are exactly the same parts that have the valves inside so when you hit the sport button the valve will open to give you more volume. The cats are a little bit different shape to accommodate the F1 transmission but purely cosmetic.
The only drawback of F1 is the maintenance cost since you need to replace the clutch which may cost a significant amount $$$. As for the Auto you probably would never need to replace that.
Talking about the MC sportline it's basically the cosmetic trim. Mechanically it's totally the same compare to the same year GTS. It will offer you a lot of carbon fiber trims like front splitters, rear spoiler, back mirror case, door handles, door sills and interior trims along with gloss black painted tips for the mufflers. That's also a lot of money if you add the MC trim options by yourself. For example the rear spoiler itself is over 2K, steering wheel 2k+, front splitter 1k each, mirror case 1k+ etc.
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