I've been deceived! - Page 7 - Maserati Forum
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post #91 of 129 Old 03-20-2016, 08:09 PM
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Emotions aside, a member of the forum is in a rough situation and seeking advice. The blanket comment about car salespeople wasn't necessary, and I suspect that the OP doesn't *truly* feel that way and that it was merely an emotional gut-reaction, but I understand what he's going through. And he's reminded of that every time he thinks about his car. That would drive me a little crazy, and I might even hate all car salespeople. Briefly. Until I realized that it's specific people I'm unhappy with -- by no means the entire trade. So let's please cut each other some slack and not expand the discussion into darker, tangential arenas.

My thoughts to the OP: MNA is following their procedure. It's not personal. However, you don't have to settle for their response. I had to spend quite a lot of time on the phone, talking with three or four different people at different levels, before receiving actions which were acceptable considering my circumstances. It was frustrating, and it even felt personal, but it wasn't. Eventually, with persistence, they listened. Or at least made it appear that way. MNA does keep tabs on these things so your situation with that dealership is noted. Maybe you can find some peace in that, even if it's only a drop in the bucket.

Don't trade for the other car unless you're 100% certain that the trade includes TRUE compensation for your trouble. As some have noted, it doesn't appear that their first offer is truly a favor. It appears that they could be turning a lemon into lemonade (no pun intended) for themselves.

Maserati, and many dealerships, do read these forums so I'd not put your gameplan out there as it's more likely to work in their favor than yours. I know there's a fine line between discussing the issue and providing their attorneys with something they could bite on. When in doubt, favor brevity, or public silence.

Your attorney has the specific information and resources to best handle your case and I'd favor his advice, but without going overboard as those conversations do cost money.

Most of all, be diligent. You absolutely WILL get out of the situation feeling better, but it might require some fighting, and it will definitely require patience. Until then, enjoy the car for what good it offers. It's a helluva lot of fun, and you seem excited about the DBW (as you should -- it's a great upgrade), so drive it! Let your brain chew on that for a while instead of the other crap.
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post #92 of 129 Old 03-20-2016, 08:14 PM
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Originally Posted by xrad View Post
Carfax (as well as other vin search companies)gets its info from multiple sources, some it has to pay for. Some info it can't get such as when an insurance company does not release information. Even so, it is worth obtaining prior to buying a used vehicle if you are concerned about value and safety.
I'd started a thread about this a while back. My GT was in the body shop twice while I owned it and neither repair was reported to CarFax. Additionally, when I bought the car it had a clean report (which the dealership had me examine and sign, as I'd mentioned above) but we later discovered that it had had some driver's side work done. None of this went into the CarFax report.

So, as I was trying to say in that thread, these reports can't be considered fully representational of the car's history, you'll only know what's been reported but not (necessarily) what it's truly been through, and therefore their usefulness is highly limited, and, in my opinion, far too much trust goes into them.
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post #93 of 129 Old 03-20-2016, 08:35 PM

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elambo, you are absolutely correct. These are not guarantees of a 'clean' car history. But unfortunately, this information was on the OP's carfax, only obtained/discovered after the sale. It may be possible to show that the dealership in question routinely runs verifax or carfax on all its vehicles prior to purchase or prior to sale, or routinely provides them to customers, then the OP may have some more ammo to fight his claim. Some state's laws go as far as to describe 'major accident history' as information that the dealer 'should have known about.' As I said earlier, 20$ for some additional info you may or may not use, which may or may not be up to date, which may or may not be accurate, is still that much more info than you have without it. Allegedly, no accidents. Not even a wheel ding.

This whole thread really brings to the forefront something many of us on this site have, a used Maserati. For example, mine was a corporate owned lease out of California first, low miles, allegedly female owned. Then second owner was a bit harsh and went through 2 sets of rear tires in under a year and with less miles than first owner. The dealer provided both the Maserati history and the carfax. Allegedly, no accidents. Not even a wheel ding.
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post #94 of 129 Old 03-20-2016, 10:10 PM
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Originally Posted by xrad View Post
elambo, you are absolutely correct. These are not guarantees of a 'clean' car history. But unfortunately, this information was on the OP's carfax, only obtained/discovered after the sale.
Sure sure. I was commenting on CF in general, not about the OP's specific issue, which is different.

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Originally Posted by xrad View Post
20$ for some additional info you may or may not use, which may or may not be up to date, which may or may not be accurate, is still that much more info than you have without it.
True also. As long as you know that going in. The problem is that some folks read those reports and feel as though they're scripture. If used as one reference amongst others it's a good sleuthing tool.
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post #95 of 129 Old 03-20-2016, 11:15 PM
 
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Sounds like the OP didn't do his due diligence before buying the car. Big mistake on his part. Before consulting with an attorney he should have also reviewed his paperwork that was signed to ensure he didn't mistakenly sign a document disclosing that the car was in an accident. Looks like the dealer tried to make good on the situation but the OP is unable to afford the new model car. The attorney is obviously selling false hope to the OP who doesn't have a case to begin with.
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post #96 of 129 Old 03-21-2016, 12:52 AM
 
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Carfax is more worthless than the paper it comes on. Autocheck is slightly better but even then reports can mysteriously pop up months to years past a reported incident.

Nothing is better than a PPI from a trusted resource. I actually get two when I'm serious about purchasing, one from my body shop AND one from my mechanic.
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post #97 of 129 Old 03-21-2016, 01:51 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Gigiti View Post
You don't have to. We can all read between the lines. You made an ignorant and compulsive move buying a car without doing homework and want to put the blame on everyone else but yourself.

Being in the auto industry myself I know enough about your "case" that your lawyer is only further taking your money. You have no case. The dealer you purchased from is a private, not a public company per Maserati's email in which you posted. You have successfully pissed them off to the point where they are not going to do anything to make you happy because they know you won't be so they wrote you off. You have also burned your ability to service there. Be a big boy and move on. Chalk this experience up to be a lesson learned in more ways than one.s

If you would like you can PM me and I can tell you what I would do if I were in your shoes that would help you the best financially because you are a fellow Maserati owner and I will still help you.

Matt
Take the mans advice please.
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post #98 of 129 Old 03-21-2016, 01:54 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Gasso View Post
Hi guys,

I've been reading this thread and a bit surprise to find out a couple things like:

A.) Didn't know there are a few people in the car business here. I too am in the car business, 20+ years and currently work for a Maserati dealer

B.) Shocked by fellow colleagues that believe the OP should just lay down and chalk it up as a learning experience.

C.) If the email from Maserati is real, I'm really shocked because as a former car manufacturer exec (not Maserati) and especially on a car that's CPO'd, this is not normal practice regardless if the dealer is private or not.

I guess we're all entitled to our own opinions and our beliefs.

In California there are laws against such practices and I'm sure these laws pertain to other states as well but this is easily settled by obtaining a lawyer which I'm glad the OP has done.

Now, regarding Carfax and I'm not defending the dealership here so please don't insinuate otherwise however sometimes Carfax takes a while to report things on their end. I remember a few years ago I was going to purchase a used Lotus from a client who had indicated the car had been in an accident where insurance was involved and that the incident happened a few years ago but when I pulled the Carfax report, nothing and it wasn't the first time I experienced this but again, I'm not saying this is the case with this dealer.

Anyways, hope all gets resolved soon enough.

Ciao!
Good balanced and informative post. Thanks.
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post #99 of 129 Old 03-21-2016, 02:38 AM
 
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Originally Posted by SVBMD View Post
Carfax is more worthless than the paper it comes on. Autocheck is slightly better but even then reports can mysteriously pop up months to years past a reported incident.

Nothing is better than a PPI from a trusted resource. I actually get two when I'm serious about purchasing, one from my body shop AND one from my mechanic.
They both would have helped the OP....
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post #100 of 129 Old 03-21-2016, 12:49 PM
 
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Hi Guys.

I work as an attorney in Denmark. I have had some US law, but the basis is the same in most places.

When you sell an object of any kind, there is an implied warranty in the trade itself.

That Means, that if the objekt is not sold "as seen" or otherwise with some kind of shift of responsibility, then the sold objekt (here a car) by law must be as good condition as you could normally expect from a car with same milage etc. This car has most likely had a big accident at some point and as such, this car is NOT is as good condition as can be expected.

SO unless the dealer sold the car under special conditions for example "as seen" or without warranti" then they are most certainly liable for the loss in value do to the car being damaged. this is the case even if they have sold the car in good faith.

That being said, what dealer would not do a carfax on a high end car? That is so unlikely that I think a judge would find the same. So they must have known about the previous repair, and as such they are without a doubt liable when they do not disclose the information to the buyer.

There is a clear case here for the buyer!

David
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post #101 of 129 Old 03-21-2016, 01:39 PM
 
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Again, I really appreciate all the information from everyone here, especially the situation the OP originally posted. My wife and I was discussing this whole issue and how easy it would have been to find ourselves in it by trusting a Dealership selling an expensive car had I not been in this field. So again thank you to everyone because I feel that whether people actually post about it, or just read it, it will prevent this from happening to other people.
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post #102 of 129 Old 03-21-2016, 02:33 PM
 
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Back in 2010 I bought a Infiniti G37S coupe. Beautiful car and excellent options from A big Infiniti dealer in Miami. It was on a Sunday and the sales person told me that the systems were down for him to pull the carfax but assured me that it was clean. I paid cash for the car and went my way.
Next Sunday I'm claying my "new" car and I start to see the paint different in several spots and got concerned. Went to the dealer and when we pulled the carfax it had 2 accidents resulting in both sides complete painted. My heart sinked ..... The sales person tried to convince me that it was still a great car and I paid a great price but he couldn't do anything because I paid for the car and used it for a week.
I requested to speak to the gm and he was off but was told he wouldn't be able to help because I signed all the paper work. I didn't know any legal routes but I was not going to let my $38000 go down the drain. I told the guy in charge there on Sunday that I would take two weeks off from work and every day I would stand in front of the dealership with signs and I would bet that by the end of the week the news would come down and the negative publicity would cost them more than $38000.

I got a call at 6pm that Sunday from the Gm and by Wednesday I had my check for $38000

I don't know if I was going to be able to actually do that but I was desperate and it worked haha

Good luck and always check the carfax and pass your hands over the corners of the car and you should feel if is rough on the edges which means was painted.
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post #103 of 129 Old 03-22-2016, 01:33 AM
 
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Originally Posted by sebaztianl View Post
Back in 2010 I bought a Infiniti G37S coupe. Beautiful car and excellent options from A big Infiniti dealer in Miami. It was on a Sunday and the sales person told me that the systems were down for him to pull the carfax but assured me that it was clean. I paid cash for the car and went my way.
Next Sunday I'm claying my "new" car and I start to see the paint different in several spots and got concerned. Went to the dealer and when we pulled the carfax it had 2 accidents resulting in both sides complete painted. My heart sinked ..... The sales person tried to convince me that it was still a great car and I paid a great price but he couldn't do anything because I paid for the car and used it for a week.
I requested to speak to the gm and he was off but was told he wouldn't be able to help because I signed all the paper work. I didn't know any legal routes but I was not going to let my $38000 go down the drain. I told the guy in charge there on Sunday that I would take two weeks off from work and every day I would stand in front of the dealership with signs and I would bet that by the end of the week the news would come down and the negative publicity would cost them more than $38000.

I got a call at 6pm that Sunday from the Gm and by Wednesday I had my check for $38000

I don't know if I was going to be able to actually do that but I was desperate and it worked haha

Good luck and always check the carfax and pass your hands over the corners of the car and you should feel if is rough on the edges which means was painted.
Goes to show you used car salesman are just that irrespective of the brand.

Buyer beware....
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post #104 of 129 Old 03-22-2016, 02:49 AM
 
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Every car I've purchased, they've made me sign a copy of the Carfax whether I asked for it or not. Then they make a copy to give me, and keep the original. I guess its to save their butts from things like this. Glad they do it though.
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post #105 of 129 Old 03-22-2016, 09:27 AM
 
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The most precise to the point response yet! Excellent!

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