I've been deceived! - Page 5 - Maserati Forum
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post #61 of 129 Old 03-18-2016, 10:42 PM
 
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+1 about used car dealers being crooks...For 24 years I have dealt with them and they are about the lowest life form on earth. It always amazes me when I see customers believe their BS and look at a mechanic as a crook...Even a bad mechanic has twice as much integrity as used car salesman. I once had a used car guy sell a person a used Range Rover on Ebay and take out the rear cover for the luggage area that the truck had before he put it up on Ebay. When the customer got the truck and realized it was missing he went to Ebay to purchase one...Guess what, there was one listed and it fit perfectly and it was the right color... Jason
Honestly, how does one feel good about themselves by pulling a stunt like that? Do they go home at night, crack open a beer and think to themselves...I'm so smart, this was a great day. Unbelievable.

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post #62 of 129 Old 03-18-2016, 11:39 PM Thread Starter
 
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Honestly, how does one feel good about themselves by pulling a stunt like that? Do they go home at night, crack open a beer and think to themselves...I'm so smart, this was a great day. Unbelievable.

I wouldn't be surprised if most of these "sales people" are either ex-cons or involved in organized crime.

And being in Chicago, I would guess both.
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post #63 of 129 Old 03-19-2016, 04:02 AM
 
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The first thing anyone should do when buying a used car is review the maintenace and service records. When you go to look at the car yiu also need to bring your OBD scanner with yiu since many dealers will reset the MIL before the sale. Make the dealer present you with a carfax history. Every dealer has an account and can easily pull the history.

For the dealer to tell you they didn't know is a total LIE. When that car was traded in they had someone inspect every nook on the car, the went over the paint, the body alignment and they also ran the VIN. If you were able to contact the previous owner you could determine what they have him on the trade and prove they knew.

As for the trade for an MC. NO don't do that. They are ripping you off 2x if you do that. The car isn't worth anywhere near what they are trying to sell it for. I have access to Manheim Auction and I can see the MMR $ on every single car that gets wholesaled. A 2015 GT with 5k miles is trading at $90k dealer wholesale. Do NOT let them slam yiu into another car.

Hiring an attorney should not cost you anything bc the dealer will be required to pay your legal fees if you win, which you will.

But rather than Diddle around and make this a long drawn out process here is what you can do. This method has worked many times in the past and will work for you as well. Contact you local news station, abc, cbs, etc, the guys that run the 6pm news. they have a crew that works with consumer affairs and they will put the dealer on blast over the news. they will contact dealer on your behalf.

Send me the VIN# on your car. I can run the VIN thru Mainheim and see what the car was wholesaled for. When the car goes thru manheim, manheim inspects all the cars and grades them, if manheim rated your car as poor that means the car needed work at the time it was auctioned off and the car was NOT driveable. Poor = not driveable. The dealer may have bought it and reconditioned it again.

The rules for a CPO gaurantee the car was not in any accidents and that the car had 1 owner. To add insult to injury, it's possible MNA can deny your CPO warranty if they determine the car was not eligible to be CPO to begin with. If the odometer had been electronically rolled back that would void your warranty immediately. It's very likely to be more than 1500 miles as well. That's just want was recorded bc the person rolled it back too far and for whatever reason the next mile recording occurred before the person was able to get out enough miles back on the car to get it higher than the previous recording. A better way to determine the rollback woukd be to calculate the number of months that elapsed between reading 1 and 2... If 1 year went by, and the car was off by negative 1500, then you know the car was rolled back an entire year worth of driving...

You need to stand firm and demand your money back. Contact the bank who financed the car and let them know there is fraud on the car. The bank owns the car right now, not you. The bank won't want to purchase a car where fraud occurred.

Trust me though once the dealer gets called out on the 6pm news they will quickly rethink this deal. They will lose big business if that happens. Furthermore this will open up a can of worms for other customers who bought used cars from that dealer and they will look into their cars now. The dealer is playing you right now to see how strong / weak you are. They know most customers are weak and won't do anything. They won't budge until you show them you're not f'ing around. I had a dealer tell me my warranty was void last year for downpipes, within 2 seconds I reminded him of the moss act and i told them to put that in writing and I will be glad to have my attorney respond. They changed their mind.
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post #64 of 129 Old 03-19-2016, 04:15 AM Thread Starter
 
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The first thing anyone should do when buying a used car is review the maintenace and service records. When you go to look at the car yiu also need to bring your OBD scanner with yiu since many dealers will reset the MIL before the sale. Make the dealer present you with a carfax history. Every dealer has an account and can easily pull the history.

For the dealer to tell you they didn't know is a total LIE. When that car was traded in they had someone inspect every nook on the car, the went over the paint, the body alignment and they also ran the VIN. If you were able to contact the previous owner you could determine what they have him on the trade and prove they knew.

As for the trade for an MC. NO don't do that. They are ripping you off 2x if you do that. The car isn't worth anywhere near what they are trying to sell it for. I have access to Manheim Auction and I can see the MMR $ on every single car that gets wholesaled. A 2015 GT with 5k miles is trading at $90k dealer wholesale. Do NOT let them slam yiu into another car.

Hiring an attorney should not cost you anything bc the dealer will be required to pay your legal fees if you win, which you will.

But rather than Diddle around and make this a long drawn out process here is what you can do. This method has worked many times in the past and will work for you as well. Contact you local news station, abc, cbs, etc, the guys that run the 6pm news. they have a crew that works with consumer affairs and they will put the dealer on blast over the news. they will contact dealer on your behalf.

Send me the VIN# on your car. I can run the VIN thru Mainheim and see what the car was wholesaled for. When the car goes thru manheim, manheim inspects all the cars and grades them, if manheim rated your car as poor that means the car needed work at the time it was auctioned off and the car was NOT driveable. Poor = not driveable. The dealer may have bought it and reconditioned it again.

The rules for a CPO gaurantee the car was not in any accidents and that the car had 1 owner. To add insult to injury, it's possible MNA can deny your CPO warranty if they determine the car was not eligible to be CPO to begin with. If the odometer had been electronically rolled back that would void your warranty immediately. It's very likely to be more than 1500 miles as well. That's just want was recorded bc the person rolled it back too far and for whatever reason the next mile recording occurred before the person was able to get out enough miles back on the car to get it higher than the previous recording. A better way to determine the rollback woukd be to calculate the number of months that elapsed between reading 1 and 2... If 1 year went by, and the car was off by negative 1500, then you know the car was rolled back an entire year worth of driving...

You need to stand firm and demand your money back. Contact the bank who financed the car and let them know there is fraud on the car. The bank owns the car right now, not you. The bank won't want to purchase a car where fraud occurred.

Trust me though once the dealer gets called out on the 6pm news they will quickly rethink this deal. They will lose big business if that happens. Furthermore this will open up a can of worms for other customers who bought used cars from that dealer and they will look into their cars now. The dealer is playing you right now to see how strong / weak you are. They know most customers are weak and won't do anything. They won't budge until you show them you're not f'ing around. I had a dealer tell me my warranty was void last year for downpipes, within 2 seconds I reminded him of the moss act and i told them to put that in writing and I will be glad to have my attorney respond. They changed their mind.
Wow. Thank you for that invaluable advice. I'm very grateful. Yeah, for them to upsell me into a MC would be lining their pockets even more than they already have. However, I will at least give their GM a chance to respond next week and go from there. If the response isn't good, I will threaten them by going to social media as well as the news outlets. What you said about the lending bank is also a very good idea which I haven't thought about. I will let them know next week about my situation. Also, I will PM you my VIN no. so that you can run it through Mainheim and see what comes up. Once again, a big Thank You!

Ideally, I would really like to go after this dealership by suing them. The problem is, this is a HUGE company with many, many dealerships across several different states. I'm sure they have unlimited resources to hire the best attorneys possible if I were to go up against them. I just don't have the time and resources to go through a lengthy legal battle. I guess my only real weapon would be to threaten them by going to social media and the news outlets.
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post #65 of 129 Old 03-19-2016, 08:48 AM
 
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I would continue down the attorney route. If you indeed asked the dealer re the history of the car and was told " no accidents, One owner, surely the duty of disclosure is on the dealer. If the dealer is an authorized dealer backed by MNA and they are providing no help I would also be including them in the action as the dealer has, no doubt, an agreement of fair trade and honesty with MNA.
If you want to keep the car I would request MNA to provide certification that all repairs were carried out correctly and that they will guarantee fair average market value on trade in at a future date, given a good service history.
If it were me .. I would be concerned that as the car was in a number of accidents who knows what stresses have been put on the engine or transmission or differential. You could be driving a ticking time bomb.
You asked the dealer pertinent questions, received less than honest answers and as an outsider looking in I would suggest any judge would see in your favor. Stop payments, don't drive car, contact finance company, contact insurer, advise MNA you will also take them to task, if no favorable response get lawyers advice on taking it public.
Very sorry to hear your plight.... Is their a mandatory warranty given by the dealership, i.e. That the vehicle is as sold to you.
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post #66 of 129 Old 03-19-2016, 11:30 AM
 
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Originally Posted by mrpa1999 View Post
The first thing anyone should do when buying a used car is review the maintenace and service records. When you go to look at the car yiu also need to bring your OBD scanner with yiu since many dealers will reset the MIL before the sale. Make the dealer present you with a carfax history. Every dealer has an account and can easily pull the history.

For the dealer to tell you they didn't know is a total LIE. When that car was traded in they had someone inspect every nook on the car, the went over the paint, the body alignment and they also ran the VIN. If you were able to contact the previous owner you could determine what they have him on the trade and prove they knew.

As for the trade for an MC. NO don't do that. They are ripping you off 2x if you do that. The car isn't worth anywhere near what they are trying to sell it for. I have access to Manheim Auction and I can see the MMR $ on every single car that gets wholesaled. A 2015 GT with 5k miles is trading at $90k dealer wholesale. Do NOT let them slam yiu into another car.

Hiring an attorney should not cost you anything bc the dealer will be required to pay your legal fees if you win, which you will.

But rather than Diddle around and make this a long drawn out process here is what you can do. This method has worked many times in the past and will work for you as well. Contact you local news station, abc, cbs, etc, the guys that run the 6pm news. they have a crew that works with consumer affairs and they will put the dealer on blast over the news. they will contact dealer on your behalf.

Send me the VIN# on your car. I can run the VIN thru Mainheim and see what the car was wholesaled for. When the car goes thru manheim, manheim inspects all the cars and grades them, if manheim rated your car as poor that means the car needed work at the time it was auctioned off and the car was NOT driveable. Poor = not driveable. The dealer may have bought it and reconditioned it again.

The rules for a CPO gaurantee the car was not in any accidents and that the car had 1 owner. To add insult to injury, it's possible MNA can deny your CPO warranty if they determine the car was not eligible to be CPO to begin with. If the odometer had been electronically rolled back that would void your warranty immediately. It's very likely to be more than 1500 miles as well. That's just want was recorded bc the person rolled it back too far and for whatever reason the next mile recording occurred before the person was able to get out enough miles back on the car to get it higher than the previous recording. A better way to determine the rollback woukd be to calculate the number of months that elapsed between reading 1 and 2... If 1 year went by, and the car was off by negative 1500, then you know the car was rolled back an entire year worth of driving...

You need to stand firm and demand your money back. Contact the bank who financed the car and let them know there is fraud on the car. The bank owns the car right now, not you. The bank won't want to purchase a car where fraud occurred.

Trust me though once the dealer gets called out on the 6pm news they will quickly rethink this deal. They will lose big business if that happens. Furthermore this will open up a can of worms for other customers who bought used cars from that dealer and they will look into their cars now. The dealer is playing you right now to see how strong / weak you are. They know most customers are weak and won't do anything. They won't budge until you show them you're not f'ing around. I had a dealer tell me my warranty was void last year for downpipes, within 2 seconds I reminded him of the moss act and i told them to put that in writing and I will be glad to have my attorney respond. They changed their mind.
Excellent post and great advice, can't wait to hear the number it traded at.
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post #67 of 129 Old 03-19-2016, 11:37 AM
 
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Well, my attorney tells me now to not trade up since it's a typical "bait-and switch" tactic that they're using on me to spend more money. A crime has been committed here and they need to pay!

He's sending a professional inspector to inspect my car over the weekend and take photos to get ready to file the paperwork.

He thinks the dealership is going to eventually want to settle the case to avoid losing money if the case goes to arbitration.
Were the "clean carfax" comments made verbally or also in writing or text message?
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post #68 of 129 Old 03-19-2016, 02:12 PM
 
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<<If the dealer is an authorized dealer backed by MNA and they are providing no help I would also be including them in the action as the dealer has, no doubt, an agreement of fair trade and honesty with MNA. >>

MNA attitude is what troubles me most in this case. Maserati should do their due diligence and take the dealership away if they can see fraud and deceit from the dealership.
The reason one buys from a dealership is because of trust and personal lack of time to do a detailed verification. To me a dealership + CPO + verbal confirmation of a car is good should be golden words and paid at a higher price that at “Dick’s used car lot”.
If all of the avenues presented here don’t work, I would write to the CEO of Maserati in Italy.
I have done this myself in the past once on a clear cut case with a different brand. I got a personal response in 3 weeks and the problem was solved. That brand has now my full backing. They have been tested.
For a luxury car brand to let these shady deals to go on is the kiss of death long term. Maserati should know better. If anything, i am looking at my purchase prospect differently watching your case.
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post #69 of 129 Old 03-19-2016, 03:29 PM

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Interesting topic and I really feel for you psb1013. These are beautiful cars that very few get to own, expressed as a percentage to the general car population, so when your dream car turns into a nightmare, you take it very personally, which I understand. When you take something personal, at times you make emotional , rather than logical decisions.

But, you may want to think twice about discussing, in an open forum, what your current thoughts and plans as well as potential courses of action may be. As someone previously mentioned, it is more than likely the Maserati factory follows this forum and maybe even people from the local dealership. In any negotiating or even legal dispute, a large part of the process is based on the unknown. I think you are revealing too much of your hand.

Also saying you will 'threaten' in this public forum could be used against you in both the negotiating process or if you ever did use social media against them regarding this particular issue. Simply put, you really cannot threaten them. You can go ahead and do it, or imply that you may do it but to mention it on the forum, which was is available to the general public and there is no expectation of privacy, that you will use it to their detriment is really not helping your case.

There's a lot of intelligent people on this forum, that I learnt much from over the past year, you may want to DM them instead. Good luck with it.


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post #70 of 129 Old 03-19-2016, 04:53 PM Thread Starter
 
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All good points and thanks to all of you for your advice. I really appreciate it. I will stop talking about this issue for now and let you guys know what happens next week after I speak to the general manager. Before I sign off, my last parting shot is this, if you sell cars for a living, I guess you have to leave your conscience at home.

2013 Maserati GT MC Convertible: Bianco Eldorado/Nero; Carbon Aero PK; Int. Carbon-Evo I+II; 20% tint; clear bra; Larini sport cats; DBW
2008 Ferrari F430 Spider: Avus Bianco ext/Red leather int; Daytona seats; Carbon dash trim and steering wheel; 20% tint; clear bra; Sport exhaust (LOUD!)
2008 Ferrari 599 GTB Fiorano: Nero/Cuoio; F1 superfast trans; Daytona seats
2010 Lambo Gallardo Spider LP560-4: Nero Noctis/Nero
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post #71 of 129 Old 03-19-2016, 05:16 PM
 
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Before I sign off, my last parting shot is this, if you sell cars for a living, I guess you have to leave your conscience at home.
We all can see your emotional about this but you should really take a look at the maturity of this statement. A job title doesn't make every person who does it a crook. For all you know some of the people who gave you some advice are in the auto industry themselves and are honest hard working people.

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post #72 of 129 Old 03-19-2016, 06:23 PM
 
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We all can see your emotional about this but you should really take a look at the maturity of this statement. A job title doesn't make every person who does it a crook. For all you know some of the people who gave you some advice are in the auto industry themselves and are honest hard working people.
yes. it is like every business. i have come across very good people selling cars and taking great care of their customers for the long term. I would trust these people on their word because they proved themselves.
I also came across some real crooks who always play the ignorance card when confronted. so indeed, like in every business, the reputation check is paramount.

Forums like these are made to weed out the bad actors. it is better for everyone on all sides at the end.

When it is all said and done, let us know of the outcome. For some of us it is important to know who that deal will be handled at the highest level.
Having an official dealer selling alleged crashed cars under CPO and not disclosing the accidents to the purchasers and the brand not acting against such actions is very bad business. I cannot believe this would be allowed to stands from Maserati viewpoint. I cant even believe a dealer would think this info would not be found out sooner or later as well.
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post #73 of 129 Old 03-19-2016, 07:44 PM Thread Starter
 
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Sorry, one last thing and I'm outta here....
Here's what Mr. Baldini of Maserati S.P.A. had to say about my situation if anyone's curious:

"Dear Mr. ___,

we would like to thank you for contacting Maserati and for sharing your experience with us.
After reading your communication, we are really sorry to learn your dissatisfaction.

As the manufacturer, Maserati investigates issues concerning manufacturer defects in material and/or workmanship of new vehicles. Sales issues are to be handled directly with your dealer, Maserati of ____, as they are independently owned and operated.

However, we have contacted Maserati North America, Inc. to investigate your situation. They have spoken to the dealer who stated that the vehicle was inspected by them, no structural damage was found and the vehicle was thoroughly reconditioned prior to sale.

Since your vehicle was purchased used and the issue is due to outside influence, Maserati is unable to offer assistance at this time. Please refer your concerns to Maserati of _____ for resolution.

We wish you all the best and thank you for bringing this matter to our attention."

Best regards,
Davide Baldini




.....Typical corporate mumbo jumbo. Honestly, I didn't expect anything better.

2013 Maserati GT MC Convertible: Bianco Eldorado/Nero; Carbon Aero PK; Int. Carbon-Evo I+II; 20% tint; clear bra; Larini sport cats; DBW
2008 Ferrari F430 Spider: Avus Bianco ext/Red leather int; Daytona seats; Carbon dash trim and steering wheel; 20% tint; clear bra; Sport exhaust (LOUD!)
2008 Ferrari 599 GTB Fiorano: Nero/Cuoio; F1 superfast trans; Daytona seats
2010 Lambo Gallardo Spider LP560-4: Nero Noctis/Nero
2019 Ferrari Portofino: Rosso Corsa/Nero
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post #74 of 129 Old 03-19-2016, 08:25 PM
 
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Did you buy this car "carfax certified" or an "in house certification" or was it a genuine Maserati CPO program that you have signed docs for? Maserati would be helping you if it went through the paperwork stream of being a genuine CPO car which tells me this car was sold to you perhaps "cert" but not Maserati Cert. Is that correct?

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Typical corporate mumbo jumbo. Honestly, I didn't expect anything better.

Maserati GranTurismo S MC SportLine Bianco over Nero
Lamborghini Gallardo Gated Spyder Arancio Borealis
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Maserati GranTurismo Bianco over Rosso (sold)
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post #75 of 129 Old 03-20-2016, 01:50 AM

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Wow, you guys are seriously ripping on used car sales people. Wait until after the legal sessions, then we can rip on lawyers too. It's a used car, caveat emptor; something for all of us to think about.

psb1013: agree with your direction. But hopefully, this shitty human experience will not keep you away from the brand. It's not the fault of the vehicle. It was everyone's hands that she passed through.
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