Ferrari Will Stop Building Engines for Maserati - Maserati Forum
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post #1 of 32 Old 05-14-2019, 04:38 AM Thread Starter
 
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Ferrari Will Stop Building Engines for Maserati

Due to low Maserati sales volume last quarter, Ferrari has announced it will no longer build engines for the shrinking luxury brand. Ferrari's built every single engine used in Maseratis since 2002 but it looks like that is sadly coming to an end. Every Maserati from the 3.0-liter twin-turbo V-6, a 3.8-liter...

https://apple.news/A-dRYWxU2QfuL2K-vV6pAWA

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post #2 of 32 Old 05-14-2019, 06:27 AM

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It will definitely be a sad day when the last Maserati with a Ferrari built engine rolls off the line, but it was Maserati's decision to stop using Ferrari engines. They chose to not renew the contract with Ferrari to build engines. The reporting in the story is incorrect. Ferrari CEO Louis Camilleri during the brand's 2019 first-quarter earnings call. Camilleri confirmed that Maserati would not renew its contract with Ferrari for engines.
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post #3 of 32 Old 05-14-2019, 12:32 PM

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Everything released into the media is carefully composed by their PR firm. Nobody really knows who actually petitioned the divorce. I do know that there's no way that Ferrari wants or needs a relationship with a brand with shrinking quality control, repurposing of so many Chrysler parts, etc. The paint quality alone of all the post-2013 models makes them out of place on the Ferrari showroom floor.

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post #4 of 32 Old 05-14-2019, 12:55 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ErikDiSomma View Post
I do know that there's no way that Ferrari wants or needs a relationship with a brand with shrinking quality control, repurposing of so many Chrysler parts, etc. The paint quality alone of all the post-2013 models makes them out of place on the Ferrari showroom floor.

Please. Stop. With. This. Bullshit. Already.
I'm sick of all the misinformation, lies, exaggerations, and condescendence.


And this wasn't a PR firm spinning it, it was some stupid journalist that couldn't read a simple transcript, or was hoping for a clickbait-y title, just like the ones that keep on talking about Chrysler parts, quality control and paint quality.


Have a read here: https://www.maseratilife.com/forums/granturismo/121191-no-more-ferrari-engines.html
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post #5 of 32 Old 05-15-2019, 01:14 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ErikDiSomma View Post
Everything released into the media is carefully composed by their PR firm. Nobody really knows who actually petitioned the divorce. I do know that there's no way that Ferrari wants or needs a relationship with a brand with shrinking quality control, repurposing of so many Chrysler parts, etc. The paint quality alone of all the post-2013 models makes them out of place on the Ferrari showroom floor.

Evidence?
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post #6 of 32 Old 05-15-2019, 05:12 PM
 
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I thought Ferrari only built the QP and GTS' F136 engine for Masi....


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post #7 of 32 Old 05-15-2019, 05:25 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Sargepug View Post
I thought Ferrari only built the QP and GTS' F136 engine for Masi....
I was under the impression that Ferrari painted the GranTurismo and assembled the engines, at least when I bought mine (2013) that's what I was told.
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post #8 of 32 Old 05-15-2019, 05:41 PM
 
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All engines are build at the Ferrari's factory, and about the painting part... I'm sorry, but that's snobbish. Paint is paint, the only difference is the polishing - something not even Ferrari does "normal" cars.
And as a personal observation, the paintjob on newer cars is way better than on the old ones (even 2015+ GTs). It's just the tech evolving and getting better.
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post #9 of 32 Old 05-15-2019, 06:21 PM

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Originally Posted by Peterson View Post
Evidence?
This isn't a matter of my opinion. Just park a QP5 next to a QP6 and see for yourself. The QP5s, since 2005 shared the same build/paint technique as the Ferraris and when they shared the same showroom lights, reflected this. Now that the new gen cars are in their place, the difference is apparent.

I'm not saying that the QP6 is not a "nice" car. It's just different and most of the differences come as a result of making the car more practical. Yeah, it's fast, but fast cars are a dime a dozen. And, when you compare the quality overall, I'd put the cars in line with other FIAT/Chrysler products, not Ferrari.

Ferrari is the last of a dying breed. Regardless of its ties with FIAT, the brand does a great job of utilizing proprietary build techniques and established OEMs. All other supercars are full of repurposed parts. There are a few small exceptions, but not to the extent of Lamborghini for example, who's cars literally smell like an Audi when you open the door.

In another 18 months, for one reason or another, you'll see the Maseratis leave their current Ferrari showrooms to join, I'd guess maybe Alfa. This migration already started in many markets with the cars now occupying standalone showrooms.

I was VP of the SPAC who worked with Mercedes Benz USA during the transition from Chrysler in 2007-2009. I had an office in New Jersey HQ and one at the OEM in Atlanta at the time. What I see happening to Maserati is basically the same situation where, as a result of turnaround management, they're shifting a product and a brand to accommodate a new audience. It's the only move to make to save the brand (let me show you the personal letter sent to all Maserati owners from Maserati President back in 1992) otherwise history will repeat itself. Ferrari's reputation, on the other hand (and the brand itself) is sure footed in the eyes of it's buyers and they no longer see the vision they had with the acquisition of Maserati. That's why I say this divorce is a long time coming and the changes you see in the quality and product line is inevitable.

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post #10 of 32 Old 05-15-2019, 06:35 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ErikDiSomma View Post
This isn't a matter of my opinion. Just park a QP5 next to a QP6 and see for yourself. The QP5s, since 2005 shared the same build/paint technique as the Ferraris and when they shared the same showroom lights, reflected this. Now that the new gen cars are in their place, the difference is apparent.

Educate us about this Ferrari "build/paint technique". :l augh2: I'm sure people working for PPG or DuPont will also have a good laugh.

You flaunt your history of working as a higher up in the automotive industry, but your posts scream of how little you know about cars in general.
Yes, there are some undenied qualities and features that "old" cars had and the "newer" ones lost (just like they gained others), but those are truly objective.
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post #11 of 32 Old 05-15-2019, 07:10 PM

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These forums are a great tool to exchange ideas, knowledge and opinions, but they're not made for PERSONAL insults. Directing any statements with the words 'you' and 'your' puts you at a higher risk than me when it comes to maintaining credibility on this forum. So you can opine how you wish, but please direct those opinions and assumptions to the cars, not the drivers or mechanics. Otherwise, I assure you they will step on your little painted toes alot harder than I just did.

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post #12 of 32 Old 05-15-2019, 07:48 PM
 
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PERSONAL insults? Where are those?


All that me and Peterson asked is for some facts that back up your claims about the paint process.


You have "opinions", I have facts on my side, truth is hardly an insult. You started on the wrong foot with your "opinions" about why the relationship with Ferrari stopped, then continued with the quality control and part sharing ones. All those are objectively wrong, and have been explained in detail by Maserati spokepersons, analysts and industry insiders.
Maserati were the ones to put an end to the Ferrari relationship because it's no longer financially profitable after Marchionne's stunt (Ferrari was making 10-15% of their total revenues from Maserati and Alfa engines), the warranty on those engines falls entirely on Maserati's shoulders and the policy of replacing entire engines instead of repairing them proved way to costly, they also want to move more upmarket and that's hard when half of the cars they sell is made an bought at retail price from another company, and so on.
Quality? That also objectively has gone up, Siemens has redesigned the whole process on modern tech and procedures, which hardly compared with the outdated 80's procedures that were used before. Yes, the very personal handmade feeling has been lost, but quality is way up. Why you might think otherwise is because before 2012 they were struggling to make and move a few hundred to a couple of thousand units a year, now they're selling those numbers in a week (50-60k units each year), and more units mean more defects, even if percentage wise the defects are rarer. Just like Apple. When they move so many units, a defect affecting 0.01% of all their phones suddenly turns into a "gate" scandal simple because how much 0.01% means out of total production.

Part sharing? That's has been debated so many times, I'm sick of it already. Maserati (just like all other small volume manufacturers) has been sharing parts with their parent company since the 70s. Be it Citroen, Fiat, Alfa, FCA, it's nothing new. And, again, objectively, the Mercedes inherited parts they use nowadays (not Chrysler) are orders of magnitude better, more premium and more reliable than the old Fiat and Alfa parts.



So yeah, with the risk of offending you again because I like facts more than feelings, tell us about that paint technique again.
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post #13 of 32 Old 05-15-2019, 07:51 PM
 
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Regarding the paint, I have this memory of an episode of megafactories about the 599, and clearly saw some 4 door chassis moving on the paint belt between the f430 and 599 chassis, so Erik is spot on if you ask me.
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post #14 of 32 Old 05-15-2019, 08:03 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Ralph_Manders View Post
Regarding the paint, I have this memory of an episode of megafactories about the 599, and clearly saw some 4 door chassis moving on the paint belt between the f430 and 599 chassis, so Erik is spot on if you ask me.

Yes, I remember too that 4200s and QP Vs were painted at Ferrari's factory back in the day - I think they moved the process back to Maserati's facility when GT came out, because Alfa used and still uses Maserati's paint facility, 8C, 4C and special order Breras and 159 like mine were painted there - but this has nothing to do with the "technique".
It's the same robotic process after the body in white has been finished and adjusted by hand, and Grugliasco's paint line is newer than Maranello's one.


The only way to have a "better" paint job is to thoroughly polish it after, which not even Ferrari does on their "normal" non-hyper-cars. Anecdotal evidence from the Ghibli forums and groups is that lot of mechanics and detailers have said they've never seen such a good quality paint except on Rolls Royces - which are hand polished for days.
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post #15 of 32 Old 05-18-2019, 02:28 AM
 
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Originally Posted by toshy View Post
All engines are build at the Ferrari's factory, and about the painting part... I'm sorry, but that's snobbish. Paint is paint, the only difference is the polishing - something not even Ferrari does "normal" cars.
And as a personal observation, the paintjob on newer cars is way better than on the old ones (even 2015+ GTs). It's just the tech evolving and getting better.
I don't believe this is accurate. I've seen videos of the QP and GTS engines hand built on the Ferrari line and that's why they receive the red crinkled paint. All other Masi models are strictly built by Masi and no red paint.
Also, the GT has the F136 engine...


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