ZF or F1 transmission in GranTurismo? - Page 4 - Maserati Forum
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post #46 of 59 Old 05-02-2019, 02:07 PM
 
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Originally Posted by 08SRX View Post
The F1 transmission was phased out in Quattroportes and Gran Turismo (base) by 2009, Gran Turismo S and Sport by 2012 and around 2016 in Gran Turismo MC Stradale. All models switched to the ZF automatic with or without paddle shifters.

That's not accurate.


The F1 transmission was sold in US market in the GranTurismo S variant on 2009 and discontinued thereafter for clutch warranty reasons (American market was sensitive to that at the time hence Maserati made the decision to bin the F1 transmission for that market after that).


In other markets for ROTW the F1 transmission continued until 2017 (for GranTurismo S until 2012 and then Granturismo SPORT version from then on until 2017).


The GranTurismo MC Stradale was always equipped with the F1 transmission (ZF was not selectable as Option) until it was discontinued in 2017.
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post #47 of 59 Old 05-02-2019, 05:16 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Peterson View Post
That's not accurate.


The F1 transmission was sold in US market in the GranTurismo S variant on 2009 and discontinued thereafter for clutch warranty reasons (American market was sensitive to that at the time hence Maserati made the decision to bin the F1 transmission for that market after that).


In other markets for ROTW the F1 transmission continued until 2017 (for GranTurismo S until 2012 and then Granturismo SPORT version from then on until 2017).


The GranTurismo MC Stradale was always equipped with the F1 transmission (ZF was not selectable as Option) until it was discontinued in 2017.
Funny! I think you said the exact same thing...
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post #48 of 59 Old 05-02-2019, 09:33 PM

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Originally Posted by Peterson View Post
Haven driven BOTH on track and Back-to-Back (First ZF then MC Shift) the MC Shift is the better handling car by a mile!


Haven driven BOTH on the road (high speed run on Autobahn and on twisty roads) the MC Shift is the better handling car (ZF tends to understeer).
The better handling car by a mile? Are you kidding?
Have also driven the Granturismo on the race track, and this not only once. Nice, but sorry to say that, simply not the right car for a race track, neither with ZF nor with MC Shift. BOTH have the handling skills of an elephant.
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post #49 of 59 Old 05-02-2019, 09:50 PM
 
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+1...Just told another person this on another thread...It's a GT car and not a track car..I'm pretty sure I could burn the front tires off one of these cars in just a few sessions on a track..Just a large heavy GT car....Jason

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post #50 of 59 Old 05-02-2019, 11:21 PM

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Stick a coupe body on a Quattroporte, what do you expect? You won't win many sports car track days with that setup.

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post #51 of 59 Old 05-03-2019, 07:00 AM
 
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Originally Posted by BlackMasi View Post
The better handling car by a mile? Are you kidding?
Have also driven the Granturismo on the race track, and this not only once. Nice, but sorry to say that, simply not the right car for a race track, neither with ZF nor with MC Shift. BOTH have the handling skills of an elephant.
Let's stay on topic. I have given an honest assessment of the difference between ZF & F1 equipped cars. The measure for performance is obviously handling on a race track irrespective of whether a car is suitable for that or not - and as I said both cars are markedly different with the F1 equipped cars handling noticeably better. To take it a step further the MC Stradale is another step above both due to its ca. 80-100 Kg lighter weight, lower sprung & unsprung wheel mass due to carbon ceramic brakes and even faster gearbox setup. Difference on road and track is noticeable as well (Have driven the car in both worlds).

By the way, I have never said the GranTurismo is the right car for a race track - where did that come from?!! A 1800 Kg+ car is never suitable for a race track unless it is a Nissan GTR...

The MC Stradale can in principle be used on a race track where it performs comparably to the M3 E92 but has a weight disadvantage. Brakes, engine & gearbox accept heavy duty punishing. OK, enough off topic...
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post #52 of 59 Old 05-03-2019, 01:39 PM

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The weight distribution difference between the two is fairly significant, that would have an effect on handling ( not huge, but definitely noticeable ) in any kind of “ spirited “ driving scenarios, does not have to be track ..
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post #53 of 59 Old 05-04-2019, 07:10 AM

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Originally Posted by DSGT View Post
The weight distribution difference between the two is fairly significant, that would have an effect on handling ( not huge, but definitely noticeable ) in any kind of “ spirited “ driving scenarios, does not have to be track ..
The more balanced weight distribution has the ZF automatic. Normally, a maximum in balance (50/50) between front and rear axles leads to better cornering behavior in every car (unless you're looking for a car for a drift challenge). Interestingly not in the case of the MC-Shift discussion. Anyway, during the track training with Maserati I noticed that even the Ghibli was superior to our old mother "Granturismo" in handling/cornering. Somehow a senseless discussion to justify the MC-Shift transmission in the Granturismo with "better handling" capabilities.
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post #54 of 59 Old 05-05-2019, 09:38 AM
 
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Originally Posted by BlackMasi View Post
The more balanced weight distribution has the ZF automatic.
50:50 is not ideal for a performance car. See https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cul...-rear-engined/

A little more weight in the rear provides better acceleration, sharper turn-in and better braking balance.

From https://www.torque.com.sg/reviews/ma...-racier-maser/

"The semi-manual car feels better behaved in corners, with a more neutral handling balance to keep the keen driver entertained. Credit for this superior behaviour goes to the improved weight distribution – 47:53 versus the full auto model’s 49:51. With the gearbox located in a transaxle position between the rear wheels, there is a lighter load (35.6kg to be exact) over the front axle and consequently sharper turn-in, making the “front-midship” GranTurismo feel even more agile. Another advantage is stronger traction on step-off plus greater rear grip at the limit."

From Maserati press kit:

"The GranTurismo (F1) offers the use of the Electro-Actuated gearbox (MC Shift) that’s mounted in the traditional Maserati transaxle housing at the rear for improved optimal weight distribution.

...

The Transaxle layout is integrated at the rear of the car and includes the 6-speed electro-actuated gearbox, the dual-plate dry clutch and the asymmetric limited-slip differential. This all combines to offer state-of the-art weight distribution and fantastic shift speeds.

The Transaxle gearbox layout not only helps the GranTurismo MC Stradale to retain an ideally balanced weight distribution, but also incorporates the brilliant MC Race gear shifting strategy that allows it to change to higher gears in just 60 ms - five times faster than a blink of an eye. The transaxle layout means that it sits in the same housing as the asymmetrical limited slip differential."



Edit: actually all this about balance is pretty minor because in MY OWN opinion I find the F1 gearbox itself just so much more engaging than any high performance automatic car I've ever driven (including AMGs, Jaguar Rs). I also prefer driving stick shift so take that for what it's worth.

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post #55 of 59 Old 05-05-2019, 05:54 PM

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Slightly better acceleration yes, slightly better braking yes, but in terms of handling , cornering , the more you deviate from a 50/50 weight balance the poorer the handling . Just look at all the track results of cars in the same class .. those nearest to a 50/50 will annihilate all of their competition at the end of a lap, if the lap has a significant amount of turns, in spite of those (negligible ) acceleration and braking advantages of rear weight cars. And I also know that fact from first hand experience, albeit with Porsches , not Measratos. But of course I am in no position to chime in the GT F1 vs. ZF, other than just a superficial opinion that the car is too big and heavy to be equipped with a sports transmission. Clearly from various posters who have driven both and who disagree, it’s a lot more fun to drive the GTs which have the F1, so no doubt that’s true.. it’s just that incremental difference that’s in question re just how much visceral value it offers in a touring automobile.
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post #56 of 59 Old 05-06-2019, 08:55 AM
 
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Originally Posted by BlackMasi View Post
The more balanced weight distribution has the ZF automatic. Normally, a maximum in balance (50/50) between front and rear axles leads to better cornering behavior in every car (unless you're looking for a car for a drift challenge). Interestingly not in the case of the MC-Shift discussion. Anyway, during the track training with Maserati I noticed that even the Ghibli was superior to our old mother "Granturismo" in handling/cornering. Somehow a senseless discussion to justify the MC-Shift transmission in the Granturismo with "better handling" capabilities.

I get the point regarding 50/50 but I will not argue what weight distribution is better (that warrants another expert thread to discuss why rear/mid-engined cars are better (or not) than front-engined cars etc.)



The fact of the matter is that the MC Shift drives and feels more nimble than the ZF Automatic. Even on road use.



As regards the Ghibili there is no point comparing both cars as it goes beyond the thread's topic. All I can say is I've done timed laps on both back-to-back and the GT came out ahead and I was surprised it also felt substantially more planted in spite of the fact that both cars had the same tyre tread width and the GT is basically 2 generations older which speaks volumes about how good a chassis it was at the time of its release.
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post #57 of 59 Old 05-06-2019, 09:01 AM
 
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Originally Posted by DSGT View Post
Slightly better acceleration yes, slightly better braking yes, but in terms of handling , cornering , the more you deviate from a 50/50 weight balance the poorer the handling . Just look at all the track results of cars in the same class .. those nearest to a 50/50 will annihilate all of their competition at the end of a lap, if the lap has a significant amount of turns, in spite of those (negligible ) acceleration and braking advantages of rear weight cars. And I also know that fact from first hand experience, albeit with Porsches , not Measratos. But of course I am in no position to chime in the GT F1 vs. ZF, other than just a superficial opinion that the car is too big and heavy to be equipped with a sports transmission. Clearly from various posters who have driven both and who disagree, it’s a lot more fun to drive the GTs which have the F1, so no doubt that’s true.. it’s just that incremental difference that’s in question re just how much visceral value it offers in a touring automobile.

You should drive an MC Stradale (in manual RACE mode) when you have a chance then you will understand why Maserati addressed customers demand for a racier Touring automobile.


Already at the time there was demand for highly versatile vehicles which could be quiet and smooth by default, but yet fast and raw with click of a button.
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post #58 of 59 Old 05-06-2019, 03:36 PM

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I love driving traditional stick shift cars, real clutch pedal, etc.. that's why I use the Porsche as my fun weekend car and the Maserati as the ( still fun, but less so..) daily weekday and commute driver. So all this time while driving the GTS I try to imagine it with a stick shift, how it would respond, how it would act and just can't come to grips with that considering its size..so I have to find an opportunity to drive an MC Stradale to do that for real instead of just speculating how it drives based on nothing but my imagining it.. I realize it's not a traditional stick shift ( right ? ) , but I suppose as close to it gets .
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post #59 of 59 Old 05-10-2019, 09:07 PM
 
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Hello, I am in need of a F1 Clutch replacement for my 06 Gransport. I live in northern California and have gotten a quote from the Sacramento dealer for $7500. The local reputable indi gave me a price of $6900. I understand the cost and factor that into cost ownership. However, I don't like to waste money if I do not have to. So on a whim I contacted Mark Douglas Motors in Orance County and they quoted me around $5k. At that price it is worth just shipping it down there and shipping it back or even driving the 600 miles back. I was wanting some advise. Also does anyone know where Eddie's shop is? I thought it was in Southern California but I cant seem to locate it. Also, has anyone heard of Raging Bull Motors in Costa Mesa? They said I don't have to get the fly wheel resurfaced, and the bearings are optional.

PLease advise.
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