Why does the price of the 4200 continue to drop? - Page 3 - Maserati Forum
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #31 of 116 Old 08-17-2018, 02:19 AM
 
Pelly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Maserati Life Posts: 137
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] Enzo`s Atlanta View Post
Erik, you should call Maserati and tell them to quit all this new modern crap...Bring back M139 cars and keep making them to the end of time...Hell, make them all F1 cars as well....Lol...Jason

I get why they have to make the changes--they have to change to meet the market. Today's cars have electronic steering because of auto pilot features that the market demands to keep up with Tesla, Mercedes, etc. So the driving experience is not as good because of the nanny controls. I prefer the hydraulic steeting in my '14 QP.


The 4.2L V8 in my Spyder sounds amazing compared to the V8 in my QP GTS. But it is a response to the market and fuel economy rules. The GTS has dual turbos and a smaller displacement and 150 more horsepower, but it sure does not sound the same--even in sport mode.
Pelly is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #32 of 116 Old 08-17-2018, 04:34 AM

InnerCircle
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Maserati Life Posts: 1,359
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 418 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ErikDiSomma View Post
I've had a few Maseratis over the years, including those built in the era of nobody really knowing what a Maserati was.

The fact is that there is very little demand for exotic touring coupes or sedans. The design, size and price of these cars when they were sold new placed them in the hands of older buyers who migrated from BMW & Mercedes Bens - cars equipped with a conventional powertrain and automatic transmission. The F1 tranny and slightly elevated maintenance costs (nothing compared to any Ferrari, Lambo, McLaren, etc.) earned the brand an undeserved reputation of being unreliable and clunky. Basic rules of supply and demand took over a few years later when the trade ins were littering the parking lots of the new car dealers, further driving prices down. Now, over 10 years later, many have changed hands 3 or 4 times, have seen accidents, repaints, deferred repairs, and the prices for those examples have further crushed the value of the deserving few.

Maserati has spent its life trying to find a niche audience that has been and still is shrinking in size as we speak. I remember driving my 1985 QP through south Florida knowing I was one of the few Maserati drivers not involved in the Mafia or financial crime. Those '80's cars suffered no less because at the time those were the only buyers willing to fork over $100K 1985 dollars for a car that needed driveshaft service ever 3K miles!

Finally, Maserati from 2002-2013 was an end of an era. That was the final chapter of buyers who still based the value of an exotic luxury car on it's fit and finish, rather than how many apps the infotainment system had. The Maseratis of today may be fast and have updated GPS, but my 2005 QP sings like no other at 7,500 RPM and still makes 10 year old kids grab their fathers shirt sleeve and point.

In summary, as demand for these cars disappears, so will their value. But, I wouldn't let it discourage you. I'd rather let the world see me getting into my shiny and loud 2005 QP than a brand new $150K rolling iPhone equipped with a V6, Maserati badge, and designer nothing.
I'm with you Erik. But you never know... seeing what's happening to the Porsche 928 market lately has been quite exciting! Ordinary auto-box S4s with 100K miles are going upwards of $30K at auction these days. And low-mileage GT models (manual) are hitting $50K. GTS are passing $100K. Meanwhile I dumped my S4 for a measly $13K in 2017, poor me. Markets can and do change.

2005 Quattroporte
Fresno, CA
SeanFulop is offline  
post #33 of 116 Old 08-17-2018, 10:05 PM
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Maserati Life Posts: 122
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 39 Post(s)
I think the older Porsche market especially on air cooled flat 6 cars is insane. There will be a correction sooner or later. Not a good time to buy but a great time to sell your 911!! 4 cylinder 924-944 cars are still cheap if you like them.
F1Tommy is offline  
 
post #34 of 116 Old 08-19-2018, 03:06 AM

InnerCircle
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Maserati Life Posts: 1,359
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 418 Post(s)
Well the 911 market is completely different from the 928 market and always has been.

In 2010 when I bought my 928 S4, I did so because it was the cheapest GT car that seats 4 with more than 300 hp. It really was! The best bang for the buck at that time, you could get a really well-maintained S4 with low miles for $20K or even less (California prices -- they are always higher than elsewhere in the USA for any kind of performance car).

Fast forward to now, it looks like the Maserati Coupe now fills this slot. It is the cheapest GT car that seats 4 with more than 300 hp. A decent 928 now costs far more than a Maserati Coupe, but that's also because the 928 has transitioned into being a "really old car" while the Maserati is still well under 20.

2005 Quattroporte
Fresno, CA
SeanFulop is offline  
post #35 of 116 Old 08-22-2018, 03:29 PM
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Maserati Life Posts: 19
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
It's all psychology. Next time you need parts or service, think about what a great deal you got buying your GT Coupe and how lucky you are to have saved enough on the purchase to cover the running costs for the first few years! Heck what's a $5k bill after you bought a $50k car for only $20k!

(Says the guy who's owned one for all of 5 days and only paid for gas so far......)
RDroz is offline  
post #36 of 116 Old 08-24-2018, 03:29 PM
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Maserati Life Posts: 122
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 39 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanFulop View Post
Well the 911 market is completely different from the 928 market and always has been.

In 2010 when I bought my 928 S4, I did so because it was the cheapest GT car that seats 4 with more than 300 hp. It really was! The best bang for the buck at that time, you could get a really well-maintained S4 with low miles for $20K or even less (California prices -- they are always higher than elsewhere in the USA for any kind of performance car).

Fast forward to now, it looks like the Maserati Coupe now fills this slot. It is the cheapest GT car that seats 4 with more than 300 hp. A decent 928 now costs far more than a Maserati Coupe, but that's also because the 928 has transitioned into being a "really old car" while the Maserati is still well under 20.
Yes they were both cheap(4200 still is pretty cheap), but on average the 928 had around 100 hp less and was made in much higher numbers.

Total production for the 928 was over 61,000. They made under 14,000 4200's with 4000 being Spyders and 9000-10000 being coupes, so 2 complete body styles(Spyder shorter wheelbase and no fixed roof)

People really have to pay careful attention to production numbers or they will get burned bad. The Porsche 911 and 928 investors will learn that in a few years. There is still an almost endless supply of used air cooled 911's and 928's sitting in garages around the world.

Last edited by F1Tommy; 08-25-2018 at 02:50 PM.
F1Tommy is offline  
post #37 of 116 Old 08-25-2018, 07:28 PM

InnerCircle
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Maserati Life Posts: 1,359
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 418 Post(s)
Yeah, I don't think production numbers influence car value at all on the non-collector market. Remember that I was "forced" to buy my Quattroporte because I couldn't afford a Porsche or BMW from a similar vintage. And forget a Corvette completely. I would have had to go deep into the 1990s to find a Corvette that is "worth" the same as my 2005 QP. When people are trying to get a used car to drive rather than to collect, it all comes down to how "coveted" the car is. For that reason, frequently the cars with the biggest production numbers (BMW, Corvette) are actually worth the most, because hey, everybody wants one.

2005 Quattroporte
Fresno, CA
SeanFulop is offline  
post #38 of 116 Old 08-25-2018, 07:42 PM
 
jacek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: sunny Cali
Maserati Life Posts: 671
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 202 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanFulop View Post
Yeah, I don't think production numbers influence car value at all on the non-collector market. Remember that I was "forced" to buy my Quattroporte because I couldn't afford a Porsche or BMW from a similar vintage. And forget a Corvette completely. I would have had to go deep into the 1990s to find a Corvette that is "worth" the same as my 2005 QP. When people are trying to get a used car to drive rather than to collect, it all comes down to how "coveted" the car is. For that reason, frequently the cars with the biggest production numbers (BMW, Corvette) are actually worth the most, because hey, everybody wants one.
To each their own I suppose. I don't say it often but I would NEVER buy a BMW...In part of the brand and the perceived owner attitude , and just as much - because everyone wants one.....
jacek is offline  
post #39 of 116 Old 08-25-2018, 11:59 PM

InnerCircle
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Maserati Life Posts: 1,359
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 418 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jacek View Post
To each their own I suppose. I don't say it often but I would NEVER buy a BMW...In part of the brand and the perceived owner attitude , and just as much - because everyone wants one.....
Hey don't get me wrong---now that I bought a Quattroporte instead of a BMW I am very happy with that choice. Sometimes I wish I could get my car worked on here in town, as I could with a BMW. But then there are the times when someone comes up and says "That is an awesome car, I have never seen anything like that around here." The Maserati ownership adventure is totally worth it. But those kinds of facts (no one around able to work on it) contribute to lower resale values. Take a look at the Bentley Arnage that up for sale on Bring a Trailer. Wasn't that a $275,000 sticker price in 1997 dollars?? And now it is struggling to get over $10,000 bids. I think that car had low production numbers. But the maintenance adventure there makes my QP seem like a Toyota, which is why there are so few buyers.

2005 Quattroporte
Fresno, CA
SeanFulop is offline  
post #40 of 116 Old 08-26-2018, 02:33 AM

InnerCircle
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Maserati Life Posts: 1,359
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 418 Post(s)
To be precise, I was able to find out that for the 2003 Arnage, Bentley produced just 669 cars. Talk about low numbers! Each one is bespoke, effectively. And yet, struggling to get bids over $10,000 at auction, for a car in beautiful condition, fully restored interior. What chance does the Maserati have in this world?

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2003-bentley-arnage/

2005 Quattroporte
Fresno, CA

Last edited by SeanFulop; 08-26-2018 at 04:21 AM.
SeanFulop is offline  
post #41 of 116 Old 08-26-2018, 07:28 AM

InnerCircle
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Maserati Life Posts: 1,359
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 418 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jacek View Post
I think a coupe would fetch 50K easily. This one has two door too many...
I don't know why you say that... QP and GranSport from 05-06 have similar values on the market.

2005 Quattroporte
Fresno, CA
SeanFulop is offline  
post #42 of 116 Old 08-26-2018, 10:01 AM
 
Bentley Boy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Cardiff
Maserati Life Posts: 135
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanFulop View Post
To be precise, I was able to find out that for the 2003 Arnage, Bentley produced just 669 cars. Talk about low numbers! Each one is bespoke, effectively. And yet, struggling to get bids over $10,000 at auction, for a car in beautiful condition, fully restored interior. What chance does the Maserati have in this world?

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2003-bentley-arnage/
Quite a coincidence that an Arnage is being cited as a comparison. When I bought my 2017 QP 2 months ago I part exchanged my 2002 Arnage T and got 24k for it. I don't know about the USA but in UK green Bentleys are poor sellers. This may be the reason for the low bids, however again in the UK all of the serious bidding nearly always happens in the last 2 minutes of an online auction.
Bentley Boy is offline  
post #43 of 116 Old 08-26-2018, 06:24 PM
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Southern Oregon
Maserati Life Posts: 241
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 58 Post(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanFulop View Post
<snip>
Sometimes I wish I could get my car worked on here in town, as I could with a BMW.
<snip>
But those kinds of facts (no one around able to work on it) contribute to lower resale values. Take a look at the Bentley Arnage that up for sale on Bring a Trailer. Wasn't that a $275,000 sticker price in 1997 dollars?? And now it is struggling to get over $10,000 bids. I think that car had low production numbers. But the maintenance adventure there makes my QP seem like a Toyota, which is why there are so few buyers.
This last spring I had it in my head that I wanted some sort of sedan with some class and decent power. I had it narrowed down to 2: Mas QP and Bentley Turbo R. (Actually, CTS-V was on the list just because of the power, but I decided I wanted something a little more, uh, quirky) I called an independent exotic car repair shop and discussed the choices. They were very familiar with both, and said they could do most repairs. However, they warned me that the Bentley had some electronics that could only be serviced by the dealer, and most dealers no longer had the equipment for cars of this age. Nearest to me would be San Francisco, 500+ miles away. Not sure AAA would approve of the tow bill there. Also, hung out at some forums and many owners seemed terrified of water (rust). In fact, Jay Leno did a video of the Turbo R. First car he ever bought brand new. But he said he has never washed it for fear that it would disappear into a pile of red dust.

I saw first hand the corrosion prevention efforts on the QP. Complete dip, chassis gets rolled end over end in the dip tank. Seems like a car that can handle the occasional bath and rain storm, plus I've found a couple of mechanics that can do most anything on it. For the few items they can't do, the local dealer seems to have a reputation for not being over the top expensive.

So, I'm now cruising around in a 2011 QP GTS.

Hans.
4regt4 is offline  
post #44 of 116 Old 08-27-2018, 03:10 AM

InnerCircle
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Maserati Life Posts: 1,359
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 418 Post(s)
I had not even considered the rust factor with the Bentleys. This doesn't seem to be a problem that is brought up on Bring a Trailer when they come up for auction, which is quite often. The interiors are what really gets me on those. The engine technology, not so much. I mean, 6.75 liters *and* twin turbocharging just to get the same horsepower as the F-136 4.2 liter (naturally aspirated) in the Maserati? This harks back to the old Lincoln straight-8 from the 1930s for God's sake. Pathetic engine from Rolls Royce.

2005 Quattroporte
Fresno, CA
SeanFulop is offline  
post #45 of 116 Old 08-27-2018, 09:09 AM
 
Bentley Boy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Cardiff
Maserati Life Posts: 135
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanFulop View Post
I had not even considered the rust factor with the Bentleys. This doesn't seem to be a problem that is brought up on Bring a Trailer when they come up for auction, which is quite often. The interiors are what really gets me on those. The engine technology, not so much. I mean, 6.75 liters *and* twin turbocharging just to get the same horsepower as the F-136 4.2 liter (naturally aspirated) in the Maserati? This harks back to the old Lincoln straight-8 from the 1930s for God's sake. Pathetic engine from Rolls Royce.
The big problem with the Turbo R and the earlier Arnages was the Head Gaskets which will go at some time and costs 4-5000 to fix. Later Arnages had tappet problems which are also expensive to fix. Rust is no worse than any other car of that vintage.
The engine may be old but they are highly developed and produce terrific torque and 450BHP. If you floor it at 100mph it will still throw you back in the seat.

I have had 2 Bentleys a continental R and an ArnageT and 2 QPs a 2009 duoselect and a 2017 v6 diesel. All great cars!
Bentley Boy is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Maserati Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome