Benefits of fuel cooling? - Maserati Forum
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post #1 of 20 Old 02-16-2009, 08:01 PM Thread Starter
 
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Benefits of fuel cooling?

I was reading an article about a German tuner that extracted 14 HP out of the Ferrari V8 engine simply by adding a fuel cooling system.

What would the benefits be of fitting such a system combined to the DBW and ECU chip that FD is providing? If it delivered what it promises, combined to FD's engine chip we'd be getting close to 450HP on the 4.2 V8.

Jeff, any thoughts on that? Have you run any tests with a fuel cooling system?
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post #2 of 20 Old 02-16-2009, 08:40 PM
 
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Originally Posted by maranello71 View Post
I was reading an article about a German tuner that extracted 14 HP out of the Ferrari V8 engine simply by adding a fuel cooling system.

What would the benefits be of fitting such a system combined to the DBW and ECU chip that FD is providing? If it delivered what it promises, combined to FD's engine chip we'd be getting close to 450HP on the 4.2 V8.

Jeff, any thoughts on that? Have you run any tests with a fuel cooling system?
Fuel cooling does add power, it allows for more/denser fuel to enter into the combustion chamber which means more power... I have looked at that tuner's claims and they are most likely true but the question I have it what did they use to cool the fuel. I have found fuel return line radiators for underneath the car but wouldn't want that under my car nor do I want it front of my current radiator, etc... Jeff has a lot more good info I am sure but you are on track here.

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post #3 of 20 Old 02-16-2009, 09:18 PM
 
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Is the 'cool' relative to ambient temp or is there an absolute temp that needs to be achieved?

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post #4 of 20 Old 02-16-2009, 09:55 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Vincenzo View Post
Is the 'cool' relative to ambient temp or is there an absolute temp that needs to be achieved?

Fuel needs to be cool relative to ambient temp. This is also why the FIA closely regulate fuel temperature in F1. BMW was accussed of cheating last year because their fuel temps were below 27C or so but it turned out to be a fault thermometer.

http://www.f1technical.net/forum/vie....php?f=4&t=445

We used to experience this with snowmobile racing... We would remove the fuel tank and run extra fuel line down the length of the tunnel between the tunnel and the seat so the cold snow and ice that caked on the tunnel could really make the fuel cold. On hot days (anything over 32 degrees) we experienced better performance this way, more horsepower, etc since we were racing on solid ice and the sled would tend to run very warm. We used to also put graphic gun lube on our hifax to keep them lubricated as well.

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post #5 of 20 Old 02-16-2009, 10:10 PM
 
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Wow, great info.

I guess you do learn something new everyday!!

Thank you for posting.
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post #6 of 20 Old 02-16-2009, 11:45 PM
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Wouldn't the energy needed for the fuel cooling system reduce the performance of such system in the first place?

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post #7 of 20 Old 02-17-2009, 02:37 AM
 
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This makes sense. In principle it is similar to the intercooler on a turbocharged engine (cooler temps = higher air density = more HP). I would assume the principle also applies to fuel.
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post #8 of 20 Old 02-17-2009, 02:48 AM
 
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Bentley uses the a/c system on the arnage and azure cars to cool the fuel.
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post #9 of 20 Old 02-17-2009, 06:03 PM
 
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Wouldn't the energy needed for the fuel cooling system reduce the performance of such system in the first place?
Depends on the cooling system. A radiator in the fuel line takes no energy, just as running the fuel line the length of the tunnel on a snowmobile. Ferrari Lemans guys use the air conditioner to cool the fuel, it takes 7hp to spin the airconditioner but they gain 35 to 40 horses with it.

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post #10 of 20 Old 02-18-2009, 12:39 AM Thread Starter
 
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So, does anyone sell a fuel cooling system that will fit to the GS? I would gladly combine it with the FD mods to get maximum power out of the engine!
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post #11 of 20 Old 02-18-2009, 03:56 AM
 
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Originally Posted by maranello71 View Post
So, does anyone sell a fuel cooling system that will fit to the GS? I would gladly combine it with the FD mods to get maximum power out of the engine!
These might work:

http://www.flex-a-lite.com/auto/html/fuel-coolers.html

http://www.a1hiperformance.com/docs/...hp?prod_id=335
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post #12 of 20 Old 02-18-2009, 10:53 AM
 
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I'm sorry but i don't really see the point. If your engine produces 400hp, then a 14hp increase is just silly.

If 400hp is not enough, just buy a faster car... right? or if a new car isn't for you, then get a decent upgrade, like the 550hp (4200 and GS engines) from LeoNardo (http://www.dimex-group.com/en/tuning...ardo-home.html).

14hp... pffttt...

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post #13 of 20 Old 02-19-2009, 12:15 AM Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by Maserati Blue View Post
I'm sorry but i don't really see the point. If your engine produces 400hp, then a 14hp increase is just silly.

If 400hp is not enough, just buy a faster car... right? or if a new car isn't for you, then get a decent upgrade, like the 550hp (4200 and GS engines) from LeoNardo (http://www.dimex-group.com/en/tuning...ardo-home.html).

14hp... pffttt...
I've noticed that Dimex is offering a "patented" fuel cooler with one of their tuning packages.

My plan is not to go for 14 HP: my plan is to add the 15 HP gained from fuel cooling plus the 30 HP from FD's chip tuning and free flow air filter combination, to get the GS to a healthy 445-450 HP. Without spending the crazy money of the Dimex kits that involve new camshafts, new exhaust and even a new engine (the 4.7liter conversion, awesome but too expensive - then I'd rather buy a Granturismo S and tune it to 520 HP without rebuilding the engine!!).
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post #14 of 20 Old 02-19-2009, 02:47 AM
 
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I agree with Maranello. These engines are highly tuned. Getting big power increases either involves huge money and risk (superchargers etc.) or small additive gains.

25HP for the chip + 35HP for the exhuast + 15HP for a fuel cooler + 3HP for an air filter + 10HP for some pulleys etc. etc. Eventually it adds up to some real power!
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post #15 of 20 Old 02-19-2009, 03:10 AM Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by flashgordon View Post
I agree with Maranello. These engines are highly tuned. Getting big power increases either involves huge money and risk (superchargers etc.) or small additive gains.

25HP for the chip + 35HP for the exhuast + 15HP for a fuel cooler + 3HP for an air filter + 10HP for some pulleys etc. etc. Eventually it adds up to some real power!
Well, this engine is not a million miles away from the F430 - the basic architecture is closely related. The extra 1000 rpm of the F430's engine account for maybe 40 HP, but IMO this leaves the potential for the GS to gain at least 50 HP without doing anything potentially destructive (e.g. without pushing the rev limiter higher, as some tuners do).

Regarding Flashgordon's statement: what exhaust mods can give me such a huge power increase? I thought the GS already had a very well tuned exhaust (largely responsible for the extra 10 HP over the stock Coupe). I wasn't even thinking of modifying it.

As for the fuel cooler, I don't think Dimex will sell it without all the rest of the kit. Formula Dynamics, any suggestions here?
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