2009 GTS with Graziano Trans or 2010 With ZFauto - Maserati Forum
 
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post #1 of 15 Old 12-09-2016, 02:12 AM Thread Starter
 
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Question 2009 GTS with Graziano Trans or 2010 With ZFauto

I am in the market for a 2009 or 2010 Gran turismo S , wanted to get some advise , the Manual paddle shift trans in the 09 looks like a lot of fun , but the ZF is a good trans also, would like to hear from anyone to help make this decision,
Thanks
Mike
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post #2 of 15 Old 12-10-2016, 06:01 AM
 
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Are you referring to the f1 trans? All GT's have paddle shifters. I also just bought an 09 GT. I actually avoided the F1 because although it would be fun to drive, it would not be traffic friendly and requires expensive clutch jobs fairly regularly. Weigh it out for yourself. The F1 may be right for you.
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post #3 of 15 Old 12-26-2016, 02:43 AM
 
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Thanks for your input, just like the fact that the F1 seems fun to drive and pretty rare , also seats have a different pattern
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post #4 of 15 Old 12-27-2016, 12:03 AM

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I own a 09 GTS with the F1. It is really fun to drive on open roads. Around town it will just be a headache. A ZF auto box will require very little maintenance. A true F1 will require quite a bit of maintenance. If you can do It your self then go for it, but be aware of what you are getting into.


There are a ton of post on here that deals with F1 systems, maintenance, and issues. I would suggest reading up on them before just jumping in.
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post #5 of 15 Old 12-27-2016, 04:26 AM
 
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If you don't drive manual cars don't buy the F1.

I have the F1 and love it but I prefer driving manual cars to automatic. So I don't find it bothersome even in town since I drive it exclusively in manual mode. If you drive it in auto mode the shifts are slow at lower speeds and revs and makes you and your passengers' heads jerk forward and back.
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post #6 of 15 Old 12-27-2016, 05:33 AM
 
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Wow so many diff opinions not sure ,
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post #7 of 15 Old 01-04-2017, 03:00 PM
 
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Thanks for all of the Advice Guys
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post #8 of 15 Old 01-10-2017, 03:29 PM

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Simple response depends greatly on the depth of your wallet.

Before listening to us chuckleheads and our opinions, I would suggest you call a Ferrari/Maserati dealer and ask them for an approx cost to replace the F1 clutch system and pump and also the estimated frequency of said repair. If the resulting figure doesnt make you hyperventilate then by all means grab the F1 and go to town with a huge grin on your face. Many of us, myself included, DID get lightheaded and thus opted for the ZF due to longevity and drivability in all situations.

2 minute phone call and you'll know your answer...

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post #9 of 15 Old 01-11-2017, 01:34 AM
 
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My opinion -

I test drove a beautiful F1 GT-S a couple years ago. I instantly noticed that the car and shifting felt fairly slow...

Driving more, I realized that when you're at low speed or low rpm, the transmission shifts very slow and definitely gives you that stickshift "lurching". I was definitely not a fan, felt like I was a passenger in a car with someone who can't drive a manual (and I was driving!). When giving it gas, it's definitely a nice transmission and gives you a pretty good feeling, but I could not get over the fact of how terrible it felt while going slow.
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post #10 of 15 Old 01-11-2017, 04:07 AM
 
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Owning a QP with the F1...If I was in the market for a GT I would look for a GTS...lots of folks dislike the gearbox but I quite like it !
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post #11 of 15 Old 01-11-2017, 05:17 AM
 
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Originally Posted by viper98912 View Post
My opinion -

I test drove a beautiful F1 GT-S a couple years ago. I instantly noticed that the car and shifting felt fairly slow...

Driving more, I realized that when you're at low speed or low rpm, the transmission shifts very slow and definitely gives you that stickshift "lurching". I was definitely not a fan, felt like I was a passenger in a car with someone who can't drive a manual (and I was driving!). When giving it gas, it's definitely a nice transmission and gives you a pretty good feeling, but I could not get over the fact of how terrible it felt while going slow.
It is very slow in auto mode. In manual mode under moderate driving it's brisk. In MC-SHIFT mode (ie. high rpm large throttle input) it is seriously fast (100ms) just a quick BLAP and you're in the next gear, throttle to the floor without lift.

That's why I keep telling people if you are more familiar with automatics, don't buy it. If you drive manuals, absolutely go for it. People go on a quick test drive, keep it in auto or low revs, then complain that the shifts are slow.

It's the same exact gearbox as the Ferrari 599 GTB. It's called the 'Superfast' because it's an improvement from the F430 and Enzo gearboxes which had 150ms shift times. Here's more details:

https://secure.ferrari.com/english/g...t_gearbox.aspx
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post #12 of 15 Old 01-11-2017, 04:44 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ItalianGrowl View Post
Simple response depends greatly on the depth of your wallet.

Before listening to us chuckleheads and our opinions, I would suggest you call a Ferrari/Maserati dealer and ask them for an approx cost to replace the F1 clutch system and pump and also the estimated frequency of said repair. If the resulting figure doesnt make you hyperventilate then by all means grab the F1 and go to town with a huge grin on your face. Many of us, myself included, DID get lightheaded and thus opted for the ZF due to longevity and drivability in all situations.

2 minute phone call and you'll know your answer...
Why go to the dealer to get major repair done on a car that's out of production (F1 version)?
Dealers have ZERO interest or incentives to help you on an obsolete car so they just quote full price -take it or leave it.
I've just had a clutch job done for under $2500 in an indy place including parts. I suggest to be patient and use ones noodles not just blindly go to a dealer just because they have huge lit up "Maserati" sign attached to their fancy glass showroom. When I see it I always keep in mind that I will be paying for the Keurig expresso about $200 per cup
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post #13 of 15 Old 01-11-2017, 07:03 PM

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Not doubting you Jacek but perhaps you have a great relationship with your Indy cause my old A4 Audi was ~1500+ and that is nowhere near as involved as the F1. The cost of parts alone is nothing to take lightly. I priced the exact same scenario when I was shopping for my GranTurismo. The point of my post is to investigate legitimate pricing sources for your area. Yes dealer prices are often ridiculous but if he lives in an area like me, where the closest exotic indy shop is 4 hrs away, the practicality of that tranny becomes less attractive.

Food for thought if things break on an F1 out of warranty:

http://www.ricambiamerica.com/car-di...ydraulics.html

http://www.ricambiamerica.com/car-di...cc/clutch.html

http://www.ricambiamerica.com/car-di...ectronics.html

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post #14 of 15 Old 01-11-2017, 07:46 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ItalianGrowl View Post
Not doubting you Jacek but perhaps you have a great relationship with your Indy cause my old A4 Audi was ~1500+ and that is nowhere near as involved as the F1. The cost of parts alone is nothing to take lightly. I priced the exact same scenario when I was shopping for my GranTurismo. The point of my post is to investigate legitimate pricing sources for your area. Yes dealer prices are often ridiculous but if he lives in an area like me, where the closest exotic indy shop is 4 hrs away, the practicality of that tranny becomes less attractive.

Food for thought if things break on an F1 out of warranty:

F1 HYDRAULICS - Ricambi America, Inc.

CLUTCH - Ricambi America, Inc.

F1 ELECTRONICS - Ricambi America, Inc.
That is so true that developing a good relationship with the Indy and the dealer plays a huge role in the cost of ownership.
I've worked on enough cars to thread lightly and most of the time manage to earn some respect for my abilities and competence. IMHO sometimes mechanic and dealer has a bit of that "predator" instinct developed over the years from jobs gone bad and if they smell incompetence it is very tempting to them to take advantage of it, even if subconsciously. Some do tend to get a bit lazy with clueless customers and sometimes not taking time to diagnose the problem correctly turns into bottomless well of parts replaced unnecessarily and the labor costs related to that. Plenty of examples here. Bottom line- IMO- if one is not passionate and technically inclined to have the desire to learn everything about their car- get one under warranty and do not bother with great deals on ebay. You are in for the world of pain....and stress.
I personally find the challenges exciting and educational. Financially not that different from any other car...
My A4 blew the rear engine seal due to a bad EGR valve and that was $1500 to fix. So the $2500 for new clutch set installed does not look that bad on the Maserati. Part of the ownership costs for any brand

Last edited by jacek; 01-11-2017 at 08:46 PM.
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post #15 of 15 Old 01-11-2017, 09:03 PM

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Ugh tackling the rear main just makes me cringe to think about! I am rather mechanically inclined and have rebuilt motors and such but on far more common vehicles. When I bought my GT, I was a bit overwhelmed by the mystery that is the F1 transmission and the amount of software influence these vehicles require. I've read stories of adept home mechanics that "fixed everything" properly and were still defeated by the software trickery of that tranny. To those brave souls, I salute you!

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